Neighborhood setup - help needed

[00 Trans Ram]

New to the forum, but this place has some great info! Did a couple of searches, and found some info to get me started. So, thanks for that!

In particular, this thread was helpful - Subdivision Monitoring - Smallest Viable System Recommendations

I live in a 2-block, gated neighborhood. It used to have a guard, but no longer. There is a gate, but it's always open. But, it's one way in, one way out. There is also an old guard shack which has power and is enclosed, but not climate controlled. We want to get some cameras to monitor traffic (there have been some vehicle thefts in the area, but not here yet). Some pertinent facts:

• We have electricity at the shack, as well as a couple of other places on the median (see lightning bolts in pic).
• We do NOT have internet (neither wifi nor 4/5G).
• There is a street light (orange sodium lamps) right in front of the guard shack.
• The guard shack is locked.
• We have a tentative budget of around $1000

At the bottom of this post is a picture of the entrance to the neighborhood.

The basic goal is that, if something happens, we can go to the shack, look at the video, and go from there. We don't need "real time" monitoring. It's just something where if someone's car is broken into, we can go look. I don't know if we will want/need tagging (we will be looking at this very rarely, as not much happens in our 'hood).

I was thinking we would get a camera to focus on license plates (do not need it to "read" them) of cars that are leaving the subdivision. And another camera to see cars and perhaps faces as people are entering. That way we have cameras looking at both streets, giving the illusion that we're watching both (even if the cameras are different). We would have to have local storage, since there is no connectivity. As for getting files off the HDD, wireless or wired is fine - not a design consideration. We would want for the HDD to keep videos for 1 week at least. Any longer is gravy.

I'm assuming that this means we would not want the cameras running all the time??? If not, what kind of trigger are we looking at?

I was thinking:
16tb HDD $199-

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07J37H9Y2?tag=pcpapi-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1

NVR $190: EmpireTech NV41AI-8P-4KH 8 Channel Compact 1HDD 1U 8PoE Network Video
License Plate Camera LZ12E $250: EmpireTech IPC-B52IR-Z12E-S2 1/2.8" CMOS 2MP Ultra Low Light Starlight
Overview Camera B54IR $170: EmpireTech IPC-B54IR-ASE 4MP IR Fixed-focal Bullet IP Camera

But, I don't think that's everything. What am I missing?

 

[looney2ns]

If you haven't yet, take a look here:
The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection | IP Cam Talk

And Here
New to LPR? Considerations Before You Begin | IP Cam Talk

The overview cam you have picked is a great little cam.
Review- EmpireTech IPC-B54IR-ASE 4MP IR Fixed-Focal Bullet IP Camera | IP Cam Talk

 

[00 Trans Ram]

If you haven't yet, take a look here:
The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection | IP Cam Talk

And Here
New to LPR? Considerations Before You Begin | IP Cam Talk

The overview cam you have picked is a great little cam.
Review- EmpireTech IPC-B54IR-ASE 4MP IR Fixed-Focal Bullet IP Camera | IP Cam Talk

Will do! Thanks.

 

[bigredfish]

Have done that for a small 41 home community we used to live in.

Some notes:

• You will/should consider 4 cameras to do what you mentioned both directions
• Use WD Purple HD's.
• Pulling video manually from the machine will be a headache quickly without internet, so will not being able to review footage. Get the HOA to spend the money for an internet connection to be set. Less than you think, and then maybe $100 p/mo. You can then manage, review, view live, pull footage from the comfort of your home. Otherwise you have to keep a monitor at the NVR location, manually login to it, find footage, download to a thumb drive... and the interface sucks. The Web interface is MUCH friendlier.
• camera (3.6mm model and the Z12) and NVR choices are fine

 

[00 Trans Ram]

Have done that for a small 41 home community we used to live in.

Some notes:

• You will/should consider 4 cameras to do what you mentioned both directions
• Use WD Purple HD's.
• Pulling video manually from the machine will be a headache quickly without internet, so will not being able to review footage. Get the HOA to spend the money for an internet connection to be set. Less than you think, and then maybe $100 p/mo. You can then manage, review, view live, pull footage from the comfort of your home. Otherwise you have to keep a monitor at the NVR location, manually login to it, find footage, download to a thumb drive... and the interface sucks. The Web interface is MUCH friendlier.
• camera (3.6mm model and the Z12) and NVR choices are fine

Will consider 4.

What are WD Purple HDs?

Assuming we can add service later, if we get sick of it?

 

[bigredfish]

Western Digital Purple. A longtime well thought of drive for video. Many here use them

Sure, you can always add service.

 

[bigredfish]

My experience over 8 years of managing that little system is that if you're lucky enough to have a single controlled entrance, you need 3 cameras minimum.
Quiet cul-de-sac, decent neighborhood, off of major through street.


One Overview, preferably in color to see the entrance and all of the fun things that happen while you're sleeping. This is where 99% of "Bad Guys" will enter the neighborhood.


One LPR camera with 95%+ capture rate


One Overview camera looking into the neighborhood to see where they go



And as a bonus, from a deterrence standpoint, nothing beats a big hunking PTZ tracking you
View attachment HOA Ent VPN_ch1_20230421172413_20230421172448.mp4

 

[dudemaar]

My experience over 8 years of managing that little system is that if you're lucky enough to have a single controlled entrance, you need 3 cameras minimum.
Quiet cul-de-sac, decent neighborhood, off of major through street.


One Overview, preferably in color to see the entrance and all of the fun things that happen while you're sleeping. This is where 99% of "Bad Guys" will enter the neighborhood.
View attachment 180675 View attachment 180679

One LPR camera with 95%+ capture rate
View attachment 180676 View attachment 180677

One Overview camera looking into the neighborhood to see where they go
View attachment 180674 View attachment 180678


And as a bonus, from a deterrence standpoint, nothing beats a big hunking PTZ tracking you
View attachment 180680

How much? I might just move to Floriduh.

 

[bigredfish]

it’s smaller, no pool…

2242 Wekiva Reserve Blvd, Apopka, FL 32703 | Zillow

2242 Wekiva Reserve Blvd, Apopka FL, is a Single Family home that contains 1487 sq ft and was built in 1999.It contains 3 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms.This home last sold for $113,500 in February 2001. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $356,500, which has increased by $2,727 in the last 30...

www.zillow.com

 

[00 Trans Ram]

@bigredfish 2 things. First, is your name "big redfish", as in, that's the best kind of redfish to catch? If so, I agree!!

Second, these items pretty much match my budget, and I think hit all the points you mentioned.

• PTZ - $190 -
  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08C77TNY9/
• Overview - $170 -
  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CL76BB94/
• LPR - $260 -
  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RJQT9NB/
• NVR - $200 -
  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09Y5MK167/
• 8TB WD Purple HD - $200 -
  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08XNL4CRM/

I'm thinking that we can put the PTZ facing oncoming traffic coming into the neighborhood. It'll be on that side, but from the recording angle in that video you showed, I believe that it'll be able to catch anyone walking or driving in or out. Plus, like you said, it'll be the best deterrent. Then I'd have the LPR on the other side of the shack, facing the front, but aimed to catch license plates of cars leaving. The last is the overview camera on the back of the shack facing the neighborhood. I think that it'll be close enough to the street to also be able to see license plates on cars as they enter (cars will be around 20-50ft away).

We might add another camera or two later (be nice to have another LPR, but this time at the front of the street, fastened to the back of the SIGN, reading cars as they enter); it's easier to spend a couple hundred here and there than blow the budget clear out of the water.

As for connectivity, I have a feeling that it going to be the first problem. I might be able to get some kind of passable solution working (I have plenty of old computers, monitors, laptops, routers, etc. laying around). But, frankly, we might just pony up $35 per month for underground fiber from AT&T. Not sure on that one, but I think that can be a "next month" issue.

Assuming this looks good (drew in the cameras) - just one more question. Will all of this record 24/7, or just when people/vehicles are detected? I see that the cameras detect vehicles and people.

 

[fenderman]

@bigredfish 2 things. First, is your name "big redfish", as in, that's the best kind of redfish to catch? If so, I agree!!

Second, these items pretty much match my budget, and I think hit all the points you mentioned.

• PTZ - $190 -
  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08C77TNY9/
• Overview - $170 -
  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CL76BB94/
• LPR - $260 -
  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RJQT9NB/
• NVR - $200 -
  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09Y5MK167/
• 8TB WD Purple HD - $200 -
  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08XNL4CRM/

I'm thinking that we can put the PTZ facing oncoming traffic coming into the neighborhood. It'll be on that side, but from the recording angle in that video you showed, I believe that it'll be able to catch anyone walking or driving in or out. Plus, like you said, it'll be the best deterrent. Then I'd have the LPR on the other side of the shack, facing the front, but aimed to catch license plates of cars leaving. The last is the overview camera on the back of the shack facing the neighborhood. I think that it'll be close enough to the street to also be able to see license plates on cars as they enter (cars will be around 20-50ft away).

We might add another camera or two later (be nice to have another LPR, but this time at the front of the street, fastened to the back of the SIGN, reading cars as they enter); it's easier to spend a couple hundred here and there than blow the budget clear out of the water.

As for connectivity, I have a feeling that it going to be the first problem. I might be able to get some kind of passable solution working (I have plenty of old computers, monitors, laptops, routers, etc. laying around). But, frankly, we might just pony up $35 per month for underground fiber from AT&T. Not sure on that one, but I think that can be a "next month" issue.

Assuming this looks good (drew in the cameras) - just one more question. Will all of this record 24/7, or just when people/vehicles are detected? I see that the cameras detect vehicles and people.

The camera you lined to for PTZ is not a PTZ....its a motorized varifocal...

 

[bigredfish]

^^^^
THIS

That camera is an adjustable focus model that allows you some discretion/room for adjustment when setting its focus point near to far. But once set it doesnt move or track by itself like a PTZ.
A good PTZ will set you back $600-$1500. Its not essential for your use case, but once you have everything else working well, it can be helpful
Otherwise I think you're on the right track. yes the NVR will record both 24/7 AND events on top of that.

(*Set YT player to 1440p)

 

[The Automation Guy]

Since this is a single entrance, you really only need a single license plate camera - set up to capture rears plates either as they enter OR leave the neighborhood. Entering the neighborhood is probably easier because you can set the camera up at the guard shack and even if it has to point down the entrance road into the neighborhood some, that is probably easier than trying to get plates as the vehicle is leaving. Normally you would want a camera capturing plates leaving the neighborhood to be located down from the entrance/exit pointing towards the exit. That is harder to install and unnecessary in this case.

I agree that you probably want two more cameras to round out the system. I'd even suggest a couple of the newer 180 degree color cameras if there is enough light at the guard shack that IR won't be needed at night.

In this image - the red camera is the license plate camera (perhaps

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RJQT9NB/?tag=ipctk-20&th=1

and the orange cameras are the 180 degree full time color cameras

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-Full-Color-Dual-Lens-Splicing-IPC-Color4K-T180/dp/B0BNN9DFFS?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1

 

[bigredfish]

Yeah the 180’s would be a great idea

 

[00 Trans Ram]

Since this is a single entrance, you really only need a single license plate camera - set up to capture rears plates either as they enter OR leave the neighborhood. Entering the neighborhood is probably easier because you can set the camera up at the guard shack and even if it has to point down the entrance road into the neighborhood some, that is probably easier than trying to get plates as the vehicle is leaving. Normally you would want a camera capturing plates leaving the neighborhood to be located down from the entrance/exit pointing towards the exit. That is harder to install and unnecessary in this case.

I agree that you probably want two more cameras to round out the system. I'd even suggest a couple of the newer 180 degree color cameras if there is enough light at the guard shack that IR won't be needed at night.

In this image - the red camera is the license plate camera (perhaps

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RJQT9NB/?tag=ipctk-20&th=1

and the orange cameras are the 180 degree full time color cameras

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-Full-Color-Dual-Lens-Splicing-IPC-Color4K-T180/dp/B0BNN9DFFS?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1

View attachment 180723

That's a great idea. I hadn't thought about putting the license camera facing away from the entrance, but catching cars as they come in. That actually should work a LOT better. Something like 100' just past the shack, going into the neighborhood, is an intersection where they have to stop. Should make a great place to catch a plate! And, when bad cars are coming in, they're more likely to be driving normally. Whereas when they are leaving, who the hell knows.

 

[00 Trans Ram]

The camera you lined to for PTZ is not a PTZ....its a motorized varifocal...

WTH did I post?!!

I meant to put this one.

5x Optical Zoom TiOC PTZ Camera - $250 - EmpireTech: 5x Optical Zoom Wiz Series

 

[bigredfish]

I’d stay away from TIOC, the 3 on his page lower down are adequate. The last one for $399 has become popular due to its size and features. If you have street lights that will help nighttime performance.

Others can weigh in on the other two

EmpireTech

EmpireTech-Andy is committed to providing each customer with the highest standard of customer service.

www.amazon.com

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-Starlight-5mm-125mm-Auto-Tracking-Protection/dp/B0BPH7L1Z1?ref_=ast_sto_dp

 

[Broachoski]

I’d stay away from TIOC, the 3 on his page lower down are adequate.

I strongly agree!

 

[The Automation Guy]

That's a great idea. I hadn't thought about putting the license camera facing away from the entrance, but catching cars as they come in. That actually should work a LOT better. Something like 100' just past the shack, going into the neighborhood, is an intersection where they have to stop. Should make a great place to catch a plate! And, when bad cars are coming in, they're more likely to be driving normally. Whereas when they are leaving, who the hell knows.

Not a bad idea. Just keep in mind that the farther away you are trying to capture a plate, the higher the chance you will miss a plate because two (or more) cars are following each other. The rear car might block the front car's plate if the angle is too "straight on".

 

[00 Trans Ram]

Just wanted to thank everyone here. Our neighborhood approved a resolution to purchase this whole setup. We are getting:

Network Video Recorder, 8 channel - NV41AI-8P-4KH

Western Digital Purple (surveillance-specific) 8TB hard drive

Loryta License Plate Reader (LPR) camera - B52IR-Z12E-S2

EmpireTech 4MP 25x Smart PTZ camera with auto-tracking - PTZ425DB-AT

EmpireTech 2x4MP Dual-lens 4k full-color 180* camera - IPC-Color4K-T180

EmpireTech 2x4MP Dual-lens 4k full-color 180* camera - IPC-Color4K-T180

For now, we are going to just set everything up with a laptop and phone providing temporary wifi via hotspot, then let the video recorder loop. We may end up staying like that for the foreseeable future. We don't want this system to be watching it in real-time or anything like that. It's mainly for "someone broke into my car last night, look and see who drove in around 2am". But, we can always run some fiber optic cable to the recorder, set up a router, and get a $30/month plan if we want always-on connectivity. That's a "later" decision, though.

Again, thanks for the help!! I'll make sure to update this thread with pictures once we have it all installed.