New account, new house, new security

[Riseab0v3]

Hello!

I have a new (to me) home that I'm interested in getting some security cameras set up around (surprising, I know). I want an always on system and be able to have alerts sent to my phone with the ability to tap into the live feed of any of my cameras any time. PoE seems like the best option to support that goal but I could use some feedback on things before I start ordering...

Currently, I've settled on a Blue Iris setup and have the following information mostly figured out, but some questions:
1. I'm going to buy a dedicated PC - seems like the i7-6700 in a dell optiplex with 256gb SDD + 4TB, 16-32GB, wifi + win10 pro would be a good option. Does windows need to be 64bit? Most eBay sellers don't seem to disclose the different OS varieties. Is there a recommended place to buy this particular component at a reasonable price?
2. 8 PoE cameras, maybe a combination of RLC-812A / RLC-842A but I really don't have a good feel for camera choices. Are there new versions of these cameras or other cameras I should consider?
3. Blue Iris
4. I assume I need some sort of powered ethernet switch to wire the cameras to and then back to the PC? No one ever seems to talk about this part on the youtube videos I've been watching. For 8 cameras, with the potential for a couple of more, what should I look to get that would support some future expansion?
5. Do I need anything else if I want to connect things into home assistant or some other automation in the future? e.g. turn X lights on when a human is detected type stuff.

Am I missing anything else I would need to buy to get everything working?

Thanks for any suggestions, I'm looking forward to getting things set up in the next few weeks.

 

[wittaj]

Avoid the Reolinks altogether unless all you care about is what time something happened and not be able to IDENTIFY who it was. Their quality is poor at night.

Plus Reolink doesn't work well with Blue Iris.

See this thread showing all the problems with Reolink quality and issues with Blue Iris.

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

Executive Summary: DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product. Test your cameras and kits right away. Just do a bench test. Test real world conditions. Test moving suspects. Test at night, test at day. Use a test rig...

ipcamtalk.com

That computer will be fine, although some will suggest an 8th generation to be able to update in the future to Windows 11. Personally if you have that computer sitting around or find it cheap, it will be sufficient. We block windows from updating anyway, so Win11 isn't a big deal to not move to.

You will want to purchase a 2nd ethernet card to put in the computer and all the cameras go to one ethernet card via POE switch and the other etherent card goes to the internet.

Dual NIC setup on your Blue Iris Machine

In making your system more secure this is a great option to eliminate your cameras calling home / connecting to the internet This is a great place to start to setup a bit more secure network and learn more about IP/Subnets etc. before adding dual NICs: Router Security - Subnets and IP addresses...

ipcamtalk.com

You need to purchase cameras designed for the area you want to be able to IDENTIFY, so take a look at this thread along with camera recommendations for the distances you are trying to cover.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Teken]

Your choices in how you want to power the video security cameras comes down to your long term goals and vested interest.

POE can be from an injector, NVR, to Switch. The same can be from a 12 VDC brick to a centrally mounted PSU. Running both POE & Power cable allows flexibility of use and install.

Install nothing less than certified in wall rated UL CM / CMR CAT-6 23 AWG solid copper Ethernet cable not CCA. Any time high voltage or extreme RFI / EMI is present shield cable should be used.

Power wire should also be in wall rated or plenum rated UL CMR / CL3R cable for the area used. Spend the extra money for larger diameter (AWG) gauge wire to reduce voltage drop and resistance.

Common sizes are 18-2, 16-2.

For the vast majority of security alarm wire it’s going to be 22-2 / 22-4 AWG.

If your going to invest the time and energy plan for a whole house audio system. Having 12-2 / 12-4 OFC in place will tie everything together for voice announcements to great back ground music through out the home.

Sit down with the wife pen to paper and consider near term to long term goals. Some hard work can be done now to lay the ground work or basic infrastructure. While others can be done if and when needed.

If your going up the attic plan everything out as it relates to personal safety. If in the summer do work early or late in the evenings. In the fall things are just easier as it relates to heat. Doing things in the dead of winter is risky and dangerous so plan to do work during moderate temperatures.

PPE should be top of mind when inside the attic space. Good headlamps and wide area flashlights. Bring a board so you can kneel on instead of balancing on the rafters!

Run cable and secure to the framing. Do NOT just lay it on the ground! Always leave enough Service Loop at each end so you can move the final placement. Consider how and where all the wiring will be home run. Don’t bend or pull on the cable too hard as you risk damaging the cable

Test all your cable runs to validate there are no breaks. Run extra pairs for areas extremely hard to access or where a future camera will go to.

Dedicated power for the system should be top of mind along with how to secure and protect the same. Proper ventilation, cooling, and noise abatement should be considered and planned.

Good Luck . . .

 

[Riseab0v3]

Avoid the Reolinks altogether unless all you care about is what time something happened and not be able to IDENTIFY who it was. Their quality is poor at night.

Plus Reolink doesn't work well with Blue Iris.

See this thread showing all the problems with Reolink quality and issues with Blue Iris.

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

Executive Summary: DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product. Test your cameras and kits right away. Just do a bench test. Test real world conditions. Test moving suspects. Test at night, test at day. Use a test rig...

ipcamtalk.com

Thanks, I'll read through this.

That computer will be fine, although some will suggest an 8th generation to be able to update in the future to Windows 11. Personally if you have that computer sitting around or find it cheap, it will be sufficient. We block windows from updating anyway, so Win11 isn't a big deal to not move to.

You will want to purchase a 2nd ethernet card to put in the computer and all the cameras go to one ethernet card via POE switch and the other etherent card goes to the internet.

Dual NIC setup on your Blue Iris Machine

In making your system more secure this is a great option to eliminate your cameras calling home / connecting to the internet This is a great place to start to setup a bit more secure network and learn more about IP/Subnets etc. before adding dual NICs: Router Security - Subnets and IP addresses...

ipcamtalk.com

I thought Blue Iris didn't work well with Windows 11 so it wasn't a thought... but I'll consider it.

You need to purchase cameras designed for the area you want to be able to IDENTIFY, so take a look at this thread along with camera recommendations for the distances you are trying to cover.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

Thanks!

 

[Riseab0v3]

Your choices in how you want to power the video security cameras comes down to your long term goals and vested interest.

POE can be from an injector, NVR, to Switch. The same can be from a 12 VDC brick to a centrally mounted PSU. Running both POE & Power cable allows flexibility of use and install.

Install nothing less than certified in wall rated UL CM / CMR CAT-6 23 AWG solid copper Ethernet cable not CCA. Any time high voltage or extreme RFI / EMI is present shield cable should be used.

Power wire should also be in wall rated or plenum rated UL CMR / CL3R cable for the area used. Spend the extra money for larger diameter (AWG) gauge wire to reduce voltage drop and resistance.

Common sizes are 18-2, 16-2.

For the vast majority of security alarm wire it’s going to be 22-2 / 22-4 AWG.

If your going to invest the time and energy plan for a whole house audio system. Having 12-2 / 12-4 OFC in place will tie everything together for voice announcements to great back ground music through out the home.

Sit down with the wife pen to paper and consider near term to long term goals. Some hard work can be done now to lay the ground work or basic infrastructure. While others can be done if and when needed.

If your going up the attic plan everything out as it relates to personal safety. If in the summer do work early or late in the evenings. In the fall things are just easier as it relates to heat. Doing things in the dead of winter is risky and dangerous so plan to do work during moderate temperatures.

PPE should be top of mind when inside the attic space. Good headlamps and wide area flashlights. Bring a board so you can kneel on instead of balancing on the rafters!

Run cable and secure to the framing. Do NOT just lay it on the ground! Always leave enough Service Loop at each end so you can move the final placement. Consider how and where all the wiring will be home run. Don’t bend or pull on the cable too hard as you risk damaging the cable

Test all your cable runs to validate there are no breaks. Run extra pairs for areas extremely hard to access or where a future camera will go to.

Dedicated power for the system should be top of mind along with how to secure and protect the same. Proper ventilation, cooling, and noise abatement should be considered and planned.

Good Luck . . .

Thanks for all the info, I especially appreciate the info around PPE and safety considerations. Are there any good videos around the installation side of PoE that you know of?

 

[wittaj]

Yes, many people have had issues with Win11 and Blue Iris but at some point BI will be optimized for 11, but people still run BI on win7 without a problem.

I was simply mentioning something to consider, but if you get a great deal on a 6th gen, then go for it.

 

[Teken]

Thanks for all the info, I especially appreciate the info around PPE and safety considerations. Are there any good videos around the installation side of PoE that you know of?

YouTube has tons of video about POE. In the big picture your choice has already been made. Given you already have a BI Server in place your choice is really a POE Switch to power the video cameras.

Running 16-2 / 18-2 power wire allows you to power the same camera or ones that only have 12 VDC input.

If you happen to purchase a camera without audio your choices to power a camera is either via 12 VDC power wire or from using a POE splitter and Y adaptor.

Even if you said every camera has audio you may find a situation where you need to power an accessory like external IR, speaker, LED, environment sensor, etc.

Why is this important?!?

The 80% power rule . . .

Meaning no cable shall utilize more than 80% of its ampacity. This is to insure a margin of safety so the cable will never ever burn up or break open.

When you run dedicated power wire you’ll never have to worry about over taxing a underpowered POE Switch!

As it relates to a POE Switch don’t waste your time or money on anything less than a 16 port switch that is POE+ capable. Standard POE (AF) is 12-15 watts depending upon who the maker is. POE+ (AT) spans 25-30 watts depending upon the maker.

POE++ (BT) is anything above 30 watts and normally ranges in 40-60 watts. Some out of specification BT hardware support 90 plus watts!

As stated early on this is predicated on the fact everything in the network infrastructure is to spec! Meaning 23 AWG Solid Copper Ethernet cable. Not 24, 26, never mind some crazy stupid man bear pig 36 AWG flat cable!

You try to run 90 watts through 24 ~ 36 AWG you better have good life and home insurance . . .

Lastly, don’t buy anything as it relates to a POE switch that offers less than 250 watts for a 16 ~ 24 port switch. 500 ~ 750 watt POE switches are normally found in 24 - 48 port switches but than you need to deal with fan noise.

Anything below 150 watts normally is passively cooled (no fans / no noise) but requires proper ventilation and racking.

 

[mat200]

Hello!

I have a new (to me) home that I'm interested in getting some security cameras set up around (surprising, I know). I want an always on system and be able to have alerts sent to my phone with the ability to tap into the live feed of any of my cameras any time. PoE seems like the best option to support that goal but I could use some feedback on things before I start ordering...

Currently, I've settled on a Blue Iris setup and have the following information mostly figured out, but some questions:
1. I'm going to buy a dedicated PC - seems like the i7-6700 in a dell optiplex with 256gb SDD + 4TB, 16-32GB, wifi + win10 pro would be a good option. Does windows need to be 64bit? Most eBay sellers don't seem to disclose the different OS varieties. Is there a recommended place to buy this particular component at a reasonable price?
2. 8 PoE cameras, maybe a combination of RLC-812A / RLC-842A but I really don't have a good feel for camera choices. Are there new versions of these cameras or other cameras I should consider?
3. Blue Iris
4. I assume I need some sort of powered ethernet switch to wire the cameras to and then back to the PC? No one ever seems to talk about this part on the youtube videos I've been watching. For 8 cameras, with the potential for a couple of more, what should I look to get that would support some future expansion?
5. Do I need anything else if I want to connect things into home assistant or some other automation in the future? e.g. turn X lights on when a human is detected type stuff.

Am I missing anything else I would need to buy to get everything working?

Thanks for any suggestions, I'm looking forward to getting things set up in the next few weeks.

Welcome @Riseab0v3

1) Take the opportunity to Rise Above and avoid Reolink from the start ..
2) Over cable with good quality cable, I like the N+1+ rule .. ( always run one more cable than you expect to need )
3) Test possible positions before doing cable runs .. often we guess incorrectly.
4) Plan for more cameras than you originally expected...

 

[Flintstone61]

Check out this post where I linked a new guy to a bunch of Amazon and ebay items to get for a new system. everything but the POE switch.

Suggestions for a "trail cam" camera system?

Hi, I'm looking for advice on a good camera system to be used as trail cams? My mom has a bunch of battery operated-sd card trail cams set up on her property to capture all sorts of wildlife that walks through (bears, deer, beavers, turtles, lots of birds, etc.). But they're battery operated...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Flintstone61]

People who try to match the Blue iris settings, we use at night, have trouble doing it with Some Reolink products. If you buy a $75 cam, and then realize you wich you had gotten the $159, what are ya gonna do with the $79 dollar cam?
I bought a cheaper PTZ because I thought these guys were over the top with thier Techno Jargon, and Geek Speak. .... Now I'm stuck with a Hikvision, with Jidetech firmware, that doesnt really cut it for ease of Use, and a User friendly interface, and missed motion, and Hieroglyphic menus.

 

[DanDenver]

Reolink is fine for indoor pet monitoring (are they upstairs, downstairs, etc). They will not be a benefit for much else.

 

[sdkid]

You will need a good POE switch and people are skipping over that. Ebay is flooded with amazing POE switches--- retired enterprise class switches made for racks that will run forever... probably. Look at HP Procurve switches-- I have purchased a few 24 port switches (12 POE ports) for $40-- those were $800 to $1,000+ when they were new. If it actually did die on you--- who cares for $40. btw-- the HP's I researched had a big advantage in power consumption and fan noise levels-- that's why I like them. You may feel better finding a Cisco switch instead. Main point--- don't think you need something new for 10 to 20+ times the price for the same functionality.

Here is the management interface on my $40 Procurve--- The port pulling 11.8 watts is the Dahua PTZ I have. I can setup VLAN and use this to isolate cameras also-- You will need to read up on network security and keep your cams from "phoning home" and getting out on the web.

 

[Riseab0v3]

You will need a good POE switch and people are skipping over that. Ebay is flooded with amazing POE switches--- retired enterprise class switches made for racks that will run forever... probably. Look at HP Procurve switches-- I have purchased a few 24 port switches (12 POE ports) for $40-- those were $800 to $1,000+ when they were new. If it actually did die on you--- who cares for $40. btw-- the HP's I researched had a big advantage in power consumption and fan noise levels-- that's why I like them. You may feel better finding a Cisco switch instead. Main point--- don't think you need something new for 10 to 20+ times the price for the same functionality.

Here is the management interface on my $40 Procurve--- The port pulling 11.8 watts is the Dahua PTZ I have. I can setup VLAN and use this to isolate cameras also-- You will need to read up on network security and keep your cams from "phoning home" and getting out on the web.

View attachment 135064

Hey, that's super helpful. I found a 12 PoE/12 normal port for exactly $40.. thank you for that.

Why does the Dahua pulling so much more power?

 

[Riseab0v3]

People who try to match the Blue iris settings, we use at night, have trouble doing it with Some Reolink products. If you buy a $75 cam, and then realize you wich you had gotten the $159, what are ya gonna do with the $79 dollar cam?
I bought a cheaper PTZ because I thought these guys were over the top with thier Techno Jargon, and Geek Speak. .... Now I'm stuck with a Hikvision, with Jidetech firmware, that doesnt really cut it for ease of Use, and a User friendly interface, and missed motion, and Hieroglyphic menus.

What cameras do you wish you got instead?

 

[mat200]

You will need a good POE switch and people are skipping over that. Ebay is flooded with amazing POE switches--- retired enterprise class switches made for racks that will run forever... probably. Look at HP Procurve switches-- I have purchased a few 24 port switches (12 POE ports) for $40-- those were $800 to $1,000+ when they were new. If it actually did die on you--- who cares for $40. btw-- the HP's I researched had a big advantage in power consumption and fan noise levels-- that's why I like them. You may feel better finding a Cisco switch instead. Main point--- don't think you need something new for 10 to 20+ times the price for the same functionality.

Here is the management interface on my $40 Procurve--- The port pulling 11.8 watts is the Dahua PTZ I have. I can setup VLAN and use this to isolate cameras also-- You will need to read up on network security and keep your cams from "phoning home" and getting out on the web.

View attachment 135064

I concur .. I also like HP Procurve switches .. recommended

 

[Flintstone61]

Well after I learned more about surveillance on the forum, and actual captures of actual crimes. It became clear that Stationary camera's dedicated to one job at one location, were a better choice for my Condo's surveilance system. hers a list of some of cams i got after joining, and getting steered into better choices by the forum members. I havent bought anything recently. some of the Amcrest ( (Dahua in sheeps clothinng) are cost effective for indoor cams. In areas with lighting.

 

[Flintstone61]

But you live and you learn. even some of these purchases, after being installed for awhile, leave you wanting just a little more....and so it goes.

 

[sdkid]

Hey, that's super helpful. I found a 12 PoE/12 normal port for exactly $40.. thank you for that.

Why does the Dahua pulling so much more power?

they are all made-by-Dahua cameras. That one is a 25x zoom ~$400 PTZ cam that a lot of people have here-- automatic identification of people and cars with fast ptz autotracking. I knew it would draw more power-- more features means more watts I guess.



My cams are exposed to temps from 110 above to -20 and I have really only lost any due to lightning surges during storms.
Welcome to the dark side btw---- You are on the cusp of an addiction.... Bahahahahahahahaha!!

 

[DanDenver]

I have the 5442 series and the color x. Certainly awesome cameras and I scour this forum for how to best tweak them for night time movement capture superiority. And frankly, they do really well, but I was chasing SLR quality images when I got into security cameras. What I have found is that the only thing that really gives you awesome night movement images (awesome meaning complete and utter overkill) is plenty of real light or plenty of IR light. Regardless, have learned that such a setup is not necessary as they can give you perp nabbing images with even just a street lamp or a coach light.

By the way, those PTZ cameras seem so kick butt! Since they zoom in, that in many ways solves the night time lighting challenges.

 

[mat200]

Hey, that's super helpful. I found a 12 PoE/12 normal port for exactly $40.. thank you for that.

Why does the Dahua pulling so much more power?

Great now that you have a good PoE switch, get a length of good cat5e/6, a good varifocal IP poe camera to play with ( many here like the Dahua OEM 4MP 1/1.8" sensor models ) and look for examples of a test rig here on the forum and start experimenting with positions.

You can get cheaper IP PoE cameras for some spots, having at least one good varifocal camera I think is useful