New AMD Ryzen

bennuss

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Any thoughts on the new 8 core ryzen chip coming out with in a week or two? need to build a BI server and should i wait or go with the i7 6700 which is 4 core. In all benchmarks they seem to beat the intels.
I havent seen a decent outlet priced i7 for a while.
 

ypl

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I will go for AMD Ryzen. I am going to build a new BI server from scratch, not sure how many cams will be there at the end of the day. Probably I will assume that I will have 16 cams, all 1080p@60fps.
 

nayr

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uh your not getting intel Quick Sync out of an AMD and BlueIris is gonna run like shit w/out it..

You'd be better off with one of the new 10-core atoms or some shit than this
 

ypl

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I wanted to buy a dedicated GPU from ATI or Nvidia, but I don't know if BI supports any Cuda or ATI hardware decoding encoding. I need to make a research.
 

nayr

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BI only supports Intel Gfx; discrete GPU's are of zero use to BI.. yes sir you need to research.
 

fenderman

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amd is a terrible idea for a blue iris servers..both because of power consumption and the lack of quicksync..
 

ypl

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Point taken, that's a pity, because new Ryzen cpu seems very promising in terms of performance and also TDP, as far as I remember Max 90W.
 

bp2008

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Ken has indicated he was working on or at least researching nvidia GPU hardware acceleration. But for now it is Intel Quick Sync or nothing. Don't buy Ryzen for Blue Iris.
 

ypl

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From what is now available in Intel department, the best choice is probably kaby Lake i7 7700k? Or two kaby Lake xeons but it's rather expensive and not yet available. Would it be enough (one kaby i7) for such BI server as described in of the previous post?
 

bp2008

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You are going to have trouble running very many 1080p cameras at 60 FPS through Blue Iris, whether you have hardware acceleration available or not. I'm guessing beyond about 6 or 8 of them, performance will start going downhill fast.

Why do you need 60 FPS? Reduce that to 15 FPS and you'll do 16 cameras just fine. In fact you might even scrape by with 30 FPS on 16x 2MP cameras, if your settings are all tuned right for optimal efficiency.

When looking for a CPU for Blue Iris, consider hardware acceleration support first, and general processing speed second. The only hardware acceleration currently supported by Blue Iris is Quick Sync Video (QSV) which is part of Intel integrated graphics. i7-7700K is the fastest CPU with QSV. Xeons rarely have integrated graphics and QSV, and when they do, I don't think they are the dual socket variety.

You could save a few hundred $$$ probably, by getting a refurbished i7-6700 system instead, with minimal loss of capability. That way you get the entire system (minus large HDDs) for between $400 and $600 depending on the amount of memory and how good of a deal you find on ebay or a vendor's outlet store. The only compelling reason to build a Blue Iris computer yourself is if you need a tremendous amount of built-in storage, as it is hard to find a low cost refurbished box with more than two drive bays. In fact lately a lot of them only have one 3.5 inch drive bay.
 

ypl

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For sure I will build my own box, for a simple reason of having fun doing it. Thanks for all the information. Knowing what you wrote, I will need to either find another software or build one box for 8 cameras and another box for rest of them. 60fps is great because it gives very sharp motion picture even if object is moving fast. Hence I rather prefer to have less cameras with sharper and better image.
 

fenderman

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For sure I will build my own box, for a simple reason of having fun doing it. Thanks for all the information. Knowing what you wrote, I will need to either find another software or build one box for 8 cameras and another box for rest of them. 60fps is great because it gives very sharp motion picture even if object is moving fast. Hence I rather prefer to have less cameras with sharper and better image.
Before you build anything or buy anything, first learn about video surveillance. This statement is incorrect "60fps is great because it gives very sharp motion picture even if object is moving fast"....
 

nayr

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that is wrong, sharp motion is entirely the shutter speed its running at, FPS has absolutely nothing to do with clarity in motion.. I can run 60FPS and get a totally blurry image with a low shutter speed, or I can run 2FPS and get a nice crisp image with a high shutter speed.
 

ypl

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I am new to video surveillance but I take lots videos of my small kids running around like hell and I can see a huge difference between shots taken in 30fps and 60fps. It is true that faster lens and smaller shutter speeds gives you a sharper picture. But when you make a video the fps also matters because there is a rule that the shutter speed equals 2xfps. So when you capture in 30fps you get 1/60th of a second shutter speed and at 60fps you get 1/120th of a second at each frame.
 

nayr

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again thats entirely false.. you misunderstand how cameras operate.

for security purposes, 10-15FPS is plenty adequate.. anything more is simply a waste of resources.

Shutter speed and FPS have no relation to eachother, I can run 10FPS @ 1/1000 or I can run 10FPS @ 1/10..

My LPR camera is running at 10FPS @ 1/500 Shutter speed and I can get perfectly sharp and readable plates of cars driving by at 60mph.. If I increase shutter speed to 1/2000 I can even get the wheels stopped and sharp enough to read the print off em.
 

bp2008

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There is some misinformation out there about frame rate affecting sharpness of moving things. To some extent, it may be true, if you let the camera handle exposure times fully automatically. But any camera worth having will let you limit the exposure time (shutter speed) independently of the frame rate. So when it really matters, you set the exposure limit and don't let it run fully auto. So for example you could force a camera to never expose longer than 1/120th of a second, and then run it at whatever frame rate you want without it affecting motion blur.

The main reason for a high frame rate like 60 FPS is to catch very quick movements. If you were monitoring poker tables and needed the camera to be able to prove someone is cheating, it could make all the difference. But for general home or business video monitoring, there is very little practical value.

Here is a video that compares common security camera frame rates. I'm pretty sure they cheated and just captured at 30 FPS and dropped frames in post-processing to make lower FPS streams, but that is beside the point.


You'll notice that beyond about 7 FPS you don't really gain much value for video surveillance, and 15 FPS is generally considered a good compromise between smoothness and practicality. 30+ FPS may be nice to look at, but it should not be a priority for video surveillance.

You may notice some blurred frames in the youtube video above, but they are not caused by the frame rate. They are caused by the exposure time, and you only notice them more in the low FPS streams because each frame is shown for a longer time.
 

nayr

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Must have some robot fingers to pull a move at a casino in ~10msec that would require 60fps to catch..


but I can see how a Casino needs as many frames as it can obtain of an event that occurred in a split second.. someone here was trying to argue he needed 60FPS to protect products in a connivence store, which was an absurd reasoning IMHO..
 

bp2008

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I don't know, I don't work in a casino. Maybe it makes no real difference even there.

30 FPS = 33ms between frames. 60 FPS = 17 ms between frames.
 

ypl

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Guys, thank You for all the valuable info. I am new to video surveilance, but I am keen on photography and taking motion pictures of my 4 yo, and 2yo kids. I have a go pro camera (able to shot 1080p@60fps) and dslr video camera. From my amateur film making experience shutter speed in video making is coupled to fps, but I'll make a reasearch based on your info and I'll have soon some hands on experience on video surveilance since I ordered PTZ 2mpx 1080p@60fps from Andy@AliEx. Once again thank You for all the valueable info.
 

bp2008

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When the viewpoint is moving rapidly, as with something hand-held, higher frame rate is quite noticeable.
 
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