New Nvr setup for my store (and first time user of nvr)

[Shengli]

330 feet (100 meters) is what standards say are the max, however many people have run upto 500 feet with high quality cable.
Also you can get away with Cat 5e, what you are deploying doesn't require Cat6e however, if you want to by all means it will work.

The room is 100 square meters so each cable from camera to the nvr would max be 30-40 meters.
The cables are around the same price, so why not get the highest category Btw is POE lan cable exactly the same as normal lan cables?

11 Cameras running High/Highest quality video setting @ 4.1mp with 30fps (be aware a lot of 4.1mp cams only run at 20fps) will average around 165mbs so most any NVR can handle this throughput. Even if you bump up the quality and kbps you should still only be around 200mbps so you should be fine with just about anything you select that isn't "basic".

Also YOU DO need to be concerned about throughput - NVR's have limitations on the amount of bandwidth they can process. Most NVR's both 8 port and 16 port have limitations of around a max of 200mbps normally. So if you have 11 cameras into the NVR you can NOT exceed 200mbps total recording processing at any time, this has nothing to do with the 10/100 or 10/100/1000 port for remote access...

Yeah i saw quite many of them are 4mp@20 fps/1080p@30fps. 20 fps is just to low for me.
(edited, actually i can't find ANY Dahua Dome Network cameras that runs 4mp @ 30 fps)

All the Dahua models i have my eye on don't have under 200mbps max incoming bandwidth with no less than 192mbps record rate. (exept the one marked in bold, which i think i will remove from the list actually)

4216-8p-4k
4208-8p-4k
4216-16p
5208-8p
5216-16-4ks2
7208-8p
7216-8p

 

[Shengli]

Another thing i am worried about is storage. Following this guide from Western Digital
6 cameras, stored for 7 days, @1080,30fps with H.264 it requeres 5.7TB

Now if i go 4mp instead of 2mp(1080p) it will requere alot more storage. Or should i take that guide with a grain of salt?

 

[blake]

Is that motion recording or 24hr constant? For your store you could do either. For 6TB purple hard drive you're looking at 170.00. I say go for it.

 

[Shengli]

No motion recording. Just static cameras recording for around 10 hours daily. and shorter in the weekend.
I have not yet decided if i want to record after closing hours since we already have the following.

- Glass detector (listening for glass breaks or getting cut) which will sound the 120 db alarm and contact the guards.
- Magnet for the door that if opened, will sound the 120 db alarm and contact the guards.
- Motion sensor if anything moves in the entire store, will sound the 120 db alarm and contact the guards.


So i don't really think its necessary to have video surveillance and live feed. Or though it would be handy since the guards will also call me if the alarm goes off. And i could then inform them of what i see. But again not necessary.

I could like you said set it to motion triggered after closing hours so i don't waste precious GB recording nothing in 4MP res

Btw Is it worth it to get the Purple NV version or is the Standard purple drives equally good. I cannot really read the difference since i cannot find any hard data and numbers on them.

 

[zero-degrees]

Another thing i am worried about is storage. Following this guide from Western Digital
6 cameras, stored for 7 days, @1080,30fps with H.264 it requeres 5.7TB

Now if i go 4mp instead of 2mp(1080p) it will requere alot more storage. Or should i take that guide with a grain of salt?

I have 16 cameras in my home - mix of 3mp and 4mp - i do NOT believe in motion detection recording only, nor do I suggest limited time range recording. What if someone breaks in overnight? You have the cameras - record 24/7 to assure nothing is ever missed. And if the alarm goes off, wouldn't you like the ability to see "who" set the alarm off and "what" they were doing?

All the calculators are going to figure a little differently based on bit rate, quality, MP, etc - especially a HD manufacture who wants you to buy more drives/drive space. I can tell you personally that I run 16 cameras at my home and they are a mix of 3mp and 4mp set to highest frame rate (20 or 30) and run high to highest quality bit rate. I have 2 4TB Purple drives and get just under 3 weeks of recording 24/7.

*Another thing to consider is if you are looking at some of the new Dahua hardware that supports H.265 compression instead of H.264. If this is the case the compression algorithm is almost double in efficiency thus you will get much more recording time.

 

[zero-degrees]

The room is 100 square meters so each cable from camera to the nvr would max be 30-40 meters.
The cables are around the same price, so why not get the highest category Btw is POE lan cable exactly the same as normal lan cables?

You can get Cat6e for this project if pricing is comparable for your location, I just wanted to point out that cat5e is also sufficient in your application. Just be aware that cat6e is a little more difficult to work with if you are a novice as the wire is thicker and the ends have a wire offset unlike cat5e that makes them a little more difficult to terminate cables for a novice.

Regardless if you go with Cat5e or Cat6 just assure you cable is Solid Core (NOT stranded) and make sure it is (NOT CCA). Below is an example of quality cable at a fair price here in the US (realize this won't apply for you, just using as reference).
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10233&cs_id=1023303&p_id=880&seq=1&format=2
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=8102

Yeah i saw quite many of them are 4mp@20 fps/1080p@30fps. 20 fps is just to low for me.
(edited, actually i can't find ANY Dahua Dome Network cameras that runs 4mp @ 30 fps)

All the Dahua models i have my eye on don't have under 200mbps max incoming bandwidth with no less than 192mbps record rate. (exept the one marked in bold, which i think i will remove from the list actually)

4216-8p-4k
4208-8p-4k
4216-16p
5208-8p
5216-16-4ks2
7208-8p
7216-8p

Totally understand your FPS junkie, however, 20FPS is pretty smooth for home and most retail environments. Here are two videos, while neither shows 20FPS they do show 15 and 30, while there is an obvious difference 20 is pretty smooth.





And finally what claims to be a 20FPS analog camera - just for reference - I would tend to believe this is 20FPS.

 

[Shengli]

I have 16 cameras in my home - mix of 3mp and 4mp - i do NOT believe in motion detection recording only, nor do I suggest limited time range recording. What if someone breaks in overnight? You have the cameras - record 24/7 to assure nothing is ever missed. And if the alarm goes off, wouldn't you like the ability to see "who" set the alarm off and "what" they were doing?

All the calculators are going to figure a little differently based on bit rate, quality, MP, etc - especially a HD manufacture who wants you to buy more drives/drive space. I can tell you personally that I run 16 cameras at my home and they are a mix of 3mp and 4mp set to highest frame rate (20 or 30) and run high to highest quality bit rate. I have 2 4TB Purple drives and get just under 3 weeks of recording 24/7.

*Another thing to consider is if you are looking at some of the new Dahua hardware that supports H.265 compression instead of H.264. If this is the case the compression algorithm is almost double in efficiency thus you will get much more recording time.

If storage space was an issue i could just record 10 hours from open to close and then from there set it up as record at motion.
But yes it would be perfect to be able to log in through my smartphone or pc if i got a call from the Security company (if i had 24x7 recording)

I don't even know for how long i should store the recordings, its really up to me. I think 7 days would be to long to be to honest. how long are you storing?

Yes i did see some of them have the H.265 compression but i think its only the -4k models.
I was going to buy just 1 6TB purple since i can get them for around 165$ and 122$ for the 4TB.

I know its hard because there is so many factors but how can i calculate the MB/s use for a single camera?

According to WD's calculator 1 x 1080p@30fps camera uses 1.60 MB/s but it does not state the bitrate.

 

[Shengli]

You can get Cat6e for this project if pricing is comparable for your location, I just wanted to point out that cat5e is also sufficient in your application. Just be aware that cat6e is a little more difficult to work with if you are a novice as the wire is thicker and the ends have a wire offset unlike cat5e that makes them a little more difficult to terminate cables for a novice.

Regardless if you go with Cat5e or Cat6 just assure you cable is Solid Core (NOT stranded) and make sure it is (NOT CCA). Below is an example of quality cable at a fair price here in the US (realize this won't apply for you, just using as reference).
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10233&cs_id=1023303&p_id=880&seq=1&format=2
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=8102

As a reference i bought CAT7 S-STP 600mhz AWG26 100 OHM Halogenfree cables, and they are thick compared to the cat5e's
I use them in the store and at home on Gigabit lan. (i have no idea if they are CCA or pure cobber) But like i said they are very thick and stirdy.
But again i don't know if they are POE capable. Since i have never read or seen POE before.

All the lan cables i own are pre-assembled. So i don't buy a cable roll and cut them myself. Perhaps i should do this for this project?
Is there really a difference between solid and stranded? i mean in a 30 meter cat6e or cat7 to a camera what could happen?

Totally understand your FPS junkie, however, 20FPS is pretty smooth for home and most retail environments. Here are two videos, while neither shows 20FPS they do show 15 and 30, while there is an obvious difference 20 is pretty smooth.

"removed the videos in the quote since they take up a lot of space"

I am an fps junkie from gaming. After i played around with 144/165hz monitors. 60hz monitors just look broken to my eyes now. And since we use Pal which is 60hz
30fps will look even smoother than say 25fps. At least that is what i keep telling myself

Like i said i did not find ANY Dahua Camera that could record 4m @30fps only the 5m cameras could run 4m @30fps but that resolution was a different ratio.

 

[zero-degrees]

If storage space was an issue i could just record 10 hours from open to close and then from there set it up as record at motion.
But yes it would be perfect to be able to log in through my smartphone or pc if i got a call from the Security company (if i had 24x7 recording)

I don't even know for how long i should store the recordings, its really up to me. I think 7 days would be to long to be to honest. how long are you storing?

For your environment I would think a full weeks would be plenty. For my home the 3 weeks is nice, but honestly I could get by with 2. For our business it is a 10k sq ft building with half being employee space and half being public space as well as the parking lot, street, and ally. For this location I backup and hold a rolling 30 days. Obviously there are times where we may not know we need something for a few weeks - possibly someone uses a stolen credit card or a crime happens in the ally and the cops don't realize we have cameras until later (this occured last year and they asked for our video 3 weeks after the fact, which we still had)

Yes i did see some of them have the H.265 compression but i think its only the -4k models.
I was going to buy just 1 6TB purple since i can get them for around 165$ and 122$ for the 4TB.



I know its hard because there is so many factors but how can i calculate the MB/s use for a single camera?

According to WD's calculator 1 x 1080p@30fps camera uses 1.60 MB/s but it does not state the bitrate.

I think a 6TB is great to start, most of these NVR's have 2 spots so if you find yourself wanting more later you can always add another 4 or 6tb drive.

 

[Shengli]

For your environment I would think a full weeks would be plenty. For my home the 3 weeks is nice, but honestly I could get by with 2. For our business it is a 10k sq ft building with half being employee space and half being public space as well as the parking lot, street, and ally. For this location I backup and hold a rolling 30 days. Obviously there are times where we may not know we need something for a few weeks - possibly someone uses a stolen credit card or a crime happens in the ally and the cops don't realize we have cameras until later (this occured last year and they asked for our video 3 weeks after the fact, which we still had)

Lucky you still had it after 3 weeks I think it would be overkill for my little shop or just waste of GB to store for that long. But in your case i can totally understand why you would need to store it that long.

I think a 6TB is great to start, most of these NVR's have 2 spots so if you find yourself wanting more later you can always add another 4 or 6tb drive.

Yeah i would buy an NVR with 2 bays. But i am just not sure just how much space i would require for 6-8 x 2-4M cameras @30fps running 24x7 for a full 2 weeks before overwriting.

 

[Shengli]

While you guys enjoy your weekend i am still working

But i did manage to finde the new Dahua Nvr's that support H.265 but then i would have to give up the POE support from the Nvr

I will continue to search if the have one that support both.

 

[Shengli]

I half decided for the Dahua Nvr 4208-8p-4k
But one thing that is unclear to me is this line from their website.

[FONT=segoe_uiregular]"Up to 8ch@1080P(4ch@H.265+4ch@H.264) realtime live-view"
[/FONT]
So is 4 of the cameras in H.265 and the other 4 in H265?

 

[Shengli]

Guess this thread is dead. The help stopped many days ago.

 

[fenderman]

Guess this thread is dead. The help stopped many days ago.

This type of comment is not going to yield you any more responses. You have received tons of good advice use it.

 

[blake]

Is there a particular reason why you are stuck on Dahua when Hikvision provides better end user service?

 

[pal251]

If your in the states then order from Nelly's if you want Dahua, otherwise order lts security. I like the lts cameras/nvr better than Dahua for.their interface and mounting. On the fence on image quality. Their nvrs seem to work better on LTS

 

[blake]

LTS is all I use. Trying to find a low profile exterior ptz. I might have to go with nellys 2mp weatherproof mini ptz and use external ir.

 

[Shengli]

Is there a particular reason why you are stuck on Dahua when Hikvision provides better end user service?

Not really. I just saw the Dahua units have a higher bandwidth and heard that the interface is better (more pretty)

But i did not really find a Dahua camera i like. I prefered 2560x1440p @ 25 fps with wdr.

 

[Shengli]

If your in the states then order from Nelly's if you want Dahua, otherwise order lts security. I like the lts cameras/nvr better than Dahua for.their interface and mounting. On the fence on image quality. Their nvrs seem to work better on LTS

Im located in Swede, Europa. So i have to order straight from China. So i have to order the correct hardware since i cannot send it back. Or i can but it would not be worth it.

 

[blake]

I would still contact Nelly's or milkisbad ( member on here ) to see if they can ship to you, that way you get some sort of customer service and support.