New to cameras, looking for make/model recommendations and a few other questions

[tdbm]

Hi, completely new to all this but am considering putting in two cameras on my garage to keep an eye on the side and back of the house – looking at the more professional style i.e. power-over-ethernet cameras and recording to a local device (probably just motion activated as difficult to review otherwise, but would want it recording constantly and discarding what it doesn't need so that it captures the start of any motion), rather than the consumer style (Ring and the like) that usually need subscriptions etc.

Am looking at the dome style as they look neat/not too obtrusive and the most tamper/weather resistant (unless there is a reason I should be considering other styles?) - can anyone recommend one/a few makes/models, and reputable places in the UK to buy them? Am finding it confusing as there are so many options and relatively little information, and the usual websites I would buy tech only really have consumer-level ones. Dahua/Hik seem to be popular here, happy to consider those if they are a good choice, though should I be concerned about loss of support etc if they go the way of Huawei phones given that governments seem to be restricting/banning them?

Advice on 5 MP versus 4K also appreciated, was looking at Reolink's offerings and nearly all of their cameras that are of the professional style are now 4K (aware a lot of people here seem to be anti-Reolink though) but there's also a lot of cameras around that are still 5 MP and I did see someone saying 4K ones can actually be worse in low light as the higher resolution needs more light. I would have assumed higher resolution always gave better images and don't want to buy something outdated, but happy not to go for 4K if not needed or reasons to not.

Also am interested in Blue Iris versus an NVR from the camera manufacturer:
-- I work in IT so am fine with PCs but am completely new to CCTV and some of it looks pretty complicated, would I be able to cope with Blue Iris and once set up will it generally work without fiddling all the time, or is a dedicated NVR best for me?
-- Is the official BI mobile app any good or is it best to connect directly to it in a browser, or will neither work reliably anyway without a static external IP address? When at home presumably it is easy to view and download recordings from the web interface (or via RDP, but not sure that would work well for viewing videos), as the PC would be not really be directly accessible?
-- Approximately how much would constantly running a Dell OptiPlex 3080 SFF (i5-10500) (already have one of these for a TV PC and it is good so would probably use another the same) constantly for BI cost in energy, and versus an NVR? (aware energy prices vary, just a rough idea is fine as I have no idea!)
-- Would having the PC in the house with a Powerline connection to the garage where the cameras are be ok, as not sure about the PC being in a cold and potentially damp garage?

Sorry for lots of questions!

 

[looney2ns]

Camera Suggestions

1-Yes on BI
2-App is fine, or you can use the built-in BI web server.
3-Roughly the same as an NVR.
4-Some folks use ethernet overpower line without issues.
Study this: Cliff Notes
You can try BI free for 14days.
How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) | IP Cam Talk

 

[wittaj]

You are slipping @looney2ns LOL. No comment about Reolink lol

 

[looney2ns]

Covered in the link I provided.

 

[Rob2020]

EmpireTech ships to the UK, he rebrands Dahua and Hikvision under private label at discount prices. He offers tech support and is very active on this forum.

I vote Dahua 5442 turret for quality and value.

 

[mat200]

Hi, completely new to all this but am considering putting in two cameras on my garage to keep an eye on the side and back of the house – looking at the more professional style i.e. power-over-ethernet cameras and recording to a local device (probably just motion activated as difficult to review otherwise, but would want it recording constantly and discarding what it doesn't need so that it captures the start of any motion), rather than the consumer style (Ring and the like) that usually need subscriptions etc.

Am looking at the dome style as they look neat/not too obtrusive and the most tamper/weather resistant (unless there is a reason I should be considering other styles?) - can anyone recommend one/a few makes/models, and reputable places in the UK to buy them? Am finding it confusing as there are so many options and relatively little information, and the usual websites I would buy tech only really have consumer-level ones. Dahua/Hik seem to be popular here, happy to consider those if they are a good choice, though should I be concerned about loss of support etc if they go the way of Huawei phones given that governments seem to be restricting/banning them?

Advice on 5 MP versus 4K also appreciated, was looking at Reolink's offerings and nearly all of their cameras that are of the professional style are now 4K (aware a lot of people here seem to be anti-Reolink though) but there's also a lot of cameras around that are still 5 MP and I did see someone saying 4K ones can actually be worse in low light as the higher resolution needs more light. I would have assumed higher resolution always gave better images and don't want to buy something outdated, but happy not to go for 4K if not needed or reasons to not.

Also am interested in Blue Iris versus an NVR from the camera manufacturer:
-- I work in IT so am fine with PCs but am completely new to CCTV and some of it looks pretty complicated, would I be able to cope with Blue Iris and once set up will it generally work without fiddling all the time, or is a dedicated NVR best for me?
-- Is the official BI mobile app any good or is it best to connect directly to it in a browser, or will neither work reliably anyway without a static external IP address? When at home presumably it is easy to view and download recordings from the web interface (or via RDP, but not sure that would work well for viewing videos), as the PC would be not really be directly accessible?
-- Approximately how much would constantly running a Dell OptiPlex 3080 SFF (i5-10500) (already have one of these for a TV PC and it is good so would probably use another the same) constantly for BI cost in energy, and versus an NVR? (aware energy prices vary, just a rough idea is fine as I have no idea!)
-- Would having the PC in the house with a Powerline connection to the garage where the cameras are be ok, as not sure about the PC being in a cold and potentially damp garage?

Sorry for lots of questions!

Am looking at the dome style as they look neat/not too obtrusive and the most tamper/weather resistant (unless there is a reason I should be considering other styles?) - can anyone recommend one/a few makes/models,

Look for a Turret format instead imho .. too many issues with Domes outdoors over time .. you can search the forum for the issues ..

 

[wittaj]

The biggest issue is that domes are not recommended outside unless it is well protected from the elements. The big issue is that the domes will hold onto water droplets much longer than a turret or bullet and thus any dirt on it can then become problematic. And during a rain event with IR, the camera is basically blind...but even without rain, the reflections of lights even outside the field of view can throw weird reflections into the dome.

The domes attract lots of dust. Then rain. Then dirty rain spots. Glare from all angles of the sun. Then over time the sun will "fog" the dome like a car headlight.

But the few domes I have that are under a soffit perform fine.


Chase sensor size, not MP. There is currently not a 5MP on an ideal sensor size. The 4K cameras that you are looking at from Reolink are on sensors made for a 2MP camera, so it just adds to the problems Reolinks have at night.


See this thread for more on the importance of focal length, along with the commonly suggested cameras in terms of cost and performance day and night and are on ideal MP/sensor ratios,

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

See this thread on why you want to stay away from Reolinks:

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

Executive Summary: DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product. Test your cameras and kits right away. Just do a bench test. Test real world conditions. Test moving suspects. Test at night, test at day. Use a test rig...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[tdbm]

Thanks for the detailed replies - noted regarding domes, would have expected them to protect the camera the most.

Seems Dahua is liked by a lot of people here - all of the official resellers of their kit in the UK at least seem to be trade-only ie they won't sell to individuals and it sounds like buying from unauthorised sources is risky - whereas Reolink just allow you to order from their website, they make things very easy! A bit unsure about buying from Empire Tech as this would prefer to buy from an official source where you get a warranty/returns policy etc, and international shipping could be expensive especially with import charges etc. Would be needing someone to install them on the wall anyway/do the cabling so will probably look for an installer that has access to buy them from the official sources.

If going for the Dahua 5442 series would something like "4MP Starlight Ultra Low Light Motorized Varifocal Turret IP Camera IPC-T5442T-ZE" be a good choice (if buying from Empire Tech) as that looks like it lets you choose the zoom level and angle and it sounds like the 4 MP/5 MP ones are fine and not outdated/superseded by 4K? Or is there a fixed lens size that would be good for covering the area ranging from fairly close up to around 10 or 15 metres away?

Any ideas on rough annual energy cost for the PC or an NVR?

 

[wittaj]

Like I said, their is no 5MP camera on the market with an ideal MP/Sensor ratio. Many here will say 4MP is more than enough. Especially if you are looking at crappy 4K cams on sensors that are designed for 2MP - in which case a 2MP camera will outperform the 4K camera, especially at night.

Focal length is more important than MP. All of my captures that the police have used have been from my 2MP cameras (I do have 4MP and 8MP cameras as well).

Please look at the thread I linked and you will see that there is not a camera (other than a PTZ), that is good for up close and 15 meters away, especially for IDENTIFY purposes. Up close is a fixed cam of say 2.8mm or 3.6mm and 15 meters away is a 12-13mm varifocal camera. The biggest mistake people make is thinking one camera can be the do all/see all, and that just isn't the case for useful video.

EmpireTech is a legit reseller with 2-year warranty, return policy, etc. He has ways of selling all over and many here from UK purchase from him without hassle and for cheaper than they could get elsewhere.

These cameras are Dahua OEM.

Andy's (Empiretech) cameras are Dahua and Hikvision OEM equipment sold under the names Loryta and Empiretech. He also supplies them to the ipcamtalk store as well as on Amazon and AliExpress.

Some of my cameras I have bought from Andy from his Amazon and AliExpress store come as Dahua cams in Dahua boxes with Dahua logos, and some are not logo'd - I think it depends on how many cameras Andy buys if he gets them with the Dahua Logo or not. But regardless, they are Dahua units. If you get a unit that has Dahua on it, then the camera GUI will say Dahua; otherwise it will simply say IP Camera but looks identical except without the logo. Some of his cameras may come with EmpireTech stamped on them as well.

As long you you buy from the vendor EmpireTech or Loryta on Amazon (or AliExpress), they are Andy cams and Dahua or Hikvision OEM.

His cameras and NVRs are international models and many of them are not available through Dahua and Hikvision authorized dealers, but his cameras and NVRs are usually better than what you can find from an authorized dealer.

You can update the firmware on Andy's cameras and NVRs from the Dahua and Hikvision website, thus proving they are real Dahua and Hikvision. But you will find that the firmware we get from him is actually better and more recent than what is on the Dahua website because many members here provide feedback to Andy and then Dahua makes modifications to the firmware and sends back to him and then he sends out to his customers. These have been great improvements that Dahua doesn't even update their firmware and add to their website. So many of us are running a newer firmware than those that purchase Dahua cameras through professional installers. Smart IR on the 5442 series is one such improvement. Autotracking on the 49225 and 49425 PTZ is another. We got the next version of AI SMD 3.0 prior to anyone else as well.

Look at the threads here where members are actually testing firmware and improving it for Dahua - find a Dahua dealer with that type of relationship that Andy has with Dahua - I don't think you will find it. Look at the Dahua 4k camera on the 1/1.2" sensor as an example - Dahua provides cameras to Andy to sell before Dahua even made it available and look at all the improvements being made to the firmware from input from customers right here on this site. And the kicker is, we are not Dahua's target market - it is the professional installers...

You do have to be careful with some rebranded cameras purchased from other vendors as they are cameras that are for the Chinese region but have been hacked into English but then are not able to be updated or they will brick. Buying from a reputable source is key to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

[wittaj]

If all you care about is knowing what time something happened, then go with the Reolink LOL. But if you expect to IDENTIFY at night, forget it.

What you mean a missing hand isn't normal LOL (plus look at the blur on the face and he is barely moving and this should be ideal indoor IR bounce and it struggles):

How about missing everything but the head and upper torso

The invisible man, where can he be. Thank goodness he is carrying around a reflective plate to see where he is LOL (hint - the person is literally in the middle of the image at the end of the fence holding that bright white rectangle)

I've seen better images on an episode of ghost hunters

And of course, this is an example from Reolink's marketing videos - do you see a person in this picture...yes, there is a person in this picture.... Could this provide anything useful for the police other than the date and time something happened? Would this protect your home? The still picture looks great though except for the person and the blur of the vehicle... Will give you a hint - the person is in between the two visible columns:

Bad Boys
Bad Boys
Watcha gonna do
Watcha gonna do
When the cameras can't see you

 

[wittaj]

The "ban" (at least in the USA) means nothing unless you are purchasing and installing in a government facility...

They would rather "ban" companies like Hikvision and Dahua that supply cameras to many companies than address the real issue.

The ban doesn't address the real issue and that is the issue of allowing IoTs like cameras touch the internet.

It is common knowledge that EVERY camera manufacturer firmware has been hacked, including high-end Axis.

Even NDAA compliant Verkada was hacked and 150,000 cameras in private companies, along with prisons and public school systems were part of it, which would be government funded..

150,000 security cameras hacked, exposing Tesla, prisons, hospitals

Hackers gained access through a 'Super Admin' account, allowing them to peer into the cameras

www.business-standard.com

It is why we recommend DO NOT LET YOUR CAMERAS OR NVR TOUCH THE INTERNET. You isolate them via VLAN or dual NIC. Do not set the system up with P2P or UPnP or scan some QR code.

I repeat, do not let your cameras touch the internet and you are fine.

In reality, since police departments have partnered with Ring to gain access to Ring video that is cloud based under the name of public safety, there is probably a much more risk of the enemy gaining access to stuff than thru the Dahua and Hikvision products that can be isolated from the internet as Ring will not work without an internet connection....

Or any manufacturer that has cloud based services that require that internet connection or their device doesn't work.

 

[mat200]

Thanks for the detailed replies - noted regarding domes, would have expected them to protect the camera the most.

Seems Dahua is liked by a lot of people here - all of the official resellers of their kit in the UK at least seem to be trade-only ie they won't sell to individuals and it sounds like buying from unauthorised sources is risky - whereas Reolink just allow you to order from their website, they make things very easy! A bit unsure about buying from Empire Tech as this would prefer to buy from an official source where you get a warranty/returns policy etc, and international shipping could be expensive especially with import charges etc. Would be needing someone to install them on the wall anyway/do the cabling so will probably look for an installer that has access to buy them from the official sources.

If going for the Dahua 5442 series would something like "4MP Starlight Ultra Low Light Motorized Varifocal Turret IP Camera IPC-T5442T-ZE" be a good choice (if buying from Empire Tech) as that looks like it lets you choose the zoom level and angle and it sounds like the 4 MP/5 MP ones are fine and not outdated/superseded by 4K? Or is there a fixed lens size that would be good for covering the area ranging from fairly close up to around 10 or 15 metres away?

Any ideas on rough annual energy cost for the PC or an NVR?

Hi @tdbm

Highly recommend taking some time to learn more with just one good varifocal 4MP 1/1.8" sensor camera .. many of us picked up at Dahua OEM version from Andy for this, and this includes customers in the UK.

Add a length of cat5e/6 cable and a nice PoE power source ( I prefer a small PoE switch ) and you can test various possible placements to get a better idea of what you want / need.

You may find vendors selling rebranded Hikvision or Dahua OEM camera also in the UK.

Most of us would recommend a better camera than those offered by Reolink ..

be certain to visit the DORI section of the cliff notes