New to IP cameras and just bought a Lorex Nocturnal 3 system with some questions and of course, problems to figure out.

Jul 22, 2024
3
5
Texas
Hello!
Most of my security experience has been more on the physical side of things with some experience on the now ancient BNC/CC video side. Bought a house down here in Texas that has some cameras, one orphaned HiKVision NVR at the shop (no password left behind of course and bricked it when I cleaaned off the half inch of dust inside) and they hacked the ends of half the cameras and took the NVR at the house leaving the cables dangling from an almost rectangular hole in the wall near the ceiling... To say the previous install wasn't professional (or shame on anyone who charged for what I've seen so far!) is an understatement. I'm old (51), lazy (see 51 y/o) since crawling around in attic spaces after 35 years of mostly hard physical labor means several days of heat pads and extra tylenol. I do however want to see what's going in, out, and around on my 4 acres. I know I'm going to have to bite the bullet on the install and do it myself but I have a couple questions that google-fu hasn't quite answered. Yeah, I'm old but that also comes with a little over 40 years of computer and 30 years of internet experience so it all wasn't a waste of time and I'm not 'bending light with my denseness' (which I really did enjoy that reference in the the VPN n00b section). I was always the hardware side of the equation and my networking side buddy is gone now so here I am trying to learn new tricks.

My first thought was to integrate a Lorex Fusion system with a Lorex Pro system but it doesn't look like they work too well with each other and I've rarely regretted buying a better over a lesser system. Well that's a lie, I curse constantly while I obsessively research everything on the 'better system' while I'm doing it but LONG TERM, I rarely regret it I guess.

Let me know if I should post these questions somewhere else here but for now I want to get them out of my head and into the superior minds here:

Biggest questions now are:
Is there really any reason other than visual deterence between Bullet and Turret cameras these days? I see no difference between FOV and range between the Lorex/Dahua Nocturnal/Starlight at 107 Deg and 150' range for both (variable focus models aside)? Is the only benefit going to come from sunshade and visual deterence if I supplement the turrets with a few bullets for the locations with minimal overhang protection (namely the exterior metal shop cameras)?
Second question which I 'think' I know the answer to but would like comfirmation on since I have a wife (and that means whatever I know is automatically wrong unless someone else says it):
Running the Lorex Pro app (at least until I finish running a MoCa line the 1200' to the shop for a central server NVR solution), Lorex claims the Fusion series cameras are 'not compatible' with the N884 NVR I have out of the box. To 'my understanding' that can be overcome by finding the individual cameras by IP and manually adding them to the NVR so it should at least record. The 'problem' would be if those cameras did not show up on the Lorex Pro app for remote viewing when there's an alert.
Why would I want a Fusion camera in the first place when I have 30fps cameras available? Because the wife has an Amazon addiction and I could build a 4th, 5th. 6th, even 7th structure on the property with all the cardboard boxes that arrive each month. If I want a closed gate, she wants to know that her precious 'whatever is in the box' is covered and that she'll get an alert when the box drops outside. The other option is to remotely open the gate so the driver can deliver it to the doorstep and the easiest way to do that is going to be a wireless camera with 2-way comms to relate a temporary gate code that also stalls them long enough for a solid license plate grab (in case). The distance to the gate from the shop is going to be pushing the 300' run even if I put another poe switch on the far side of the shop (it's 4,000 sq ft) from where I plan to run the MoCa and fiber doesn't make economic sense until I can talk my ISP into running a bridge as opposed to spending $1200+/year for a second fiber account and tunneling a VPN between the two JUST for the cameras.
 
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Hello!
Most of my security experience has been more on the physical side of things with some experience on the now ancient BNC/CC video side. Bought a house down here in Texas that has some cameras, one orphaned HiKVision NVR at the shop (no password left behind of course and bricked it when I cleaaned off the half inch of dust inside) and they hacked the ends of half the cameras and took the NVR at the house leaving the cables dangling from an almost rectangular hole in the wall near the ceiling... To say the previous install wasn't professional (or shame on anyone who charged for what I've seen so far!) is an understatement. I'm old (51), lazy (see 51 y/o) since crawling around in attic spaces after 35 years of mostly hard physical labor means several days of heat pads and extra tylenol. I do however want to see what's going in, out, and around on my 4 acres. I know I'm going to have to bite the bullet on the install and do it myself but I have a couple questions that google-fu hasn't quite answered. Yeah, I'm old but that also comes with a little over 40 years of computer and 30 years of internet experience so it all wasn't a waste of time and I'm not 'bending light with my denseness' (which I really did enjoy that reference in the the VPN n00b section). I was always the hardware side of the equation and my networking side buddy is gone now so here I am trying to learn new tricks.

My first thought was to integrate a Lorex Fusion system with a Lorex Pro system but it doesn't look like they work too well with each other and I've rarely regretted buying a better over a lesser system. Well that's a lie, I curse constantly while I obsessively research everything on the 'better system' while I'm doing it but LONG TERM, I rarely regret it I guess.

Let me know if I should post these questions somewhere else here but for now I want to get them out of my head and into the superior minds here:

Biggest questions now are:
Is there really any reason other than visual deterence between Bullet and Turret cameras these days? I see no difference between FOV and range between the Lorex/Dahua Nocturnal/Starlight at 107 Deg and 150' range for both (variable focus models aside)? Is the only benefit going to come from sunshade and visual deterence if I supplement the turrets with a few bullets for the locations with minimal overhang protection (namely the exterior metal shop cameras)?
Second question which I 'think' I know the answer to but would like comfirmation on since I have a wife (and that means whatever I know is automatically wrong unless someone else says it):
Running the Lorex Pro app (at least until I finish running a MoCa line the 1200' to the shop for a central server NVR solution), Lorex claims the Fusion series cameras are 'not compatible' with the N884 NVR I have out of the box. To 'my understanding' that can be overcome by finding the individual cameras by IP and manually adding them to the NVR so it should at least record. The 'problem' would be if those cameras did not show up on the Lorex Pro app for remote viewing when there's an alert.
Why would I want a Fusion camera in the first place when I have 30fps cameras available? Because the wife has an Amazon addiction and I could build a 4th, 5th. 6th, even 7th structure on the property with all the cardboard boxes that arrive each month. If I want a closed gate, she wants to know that her precious 'whatever is in the box' is covered and that she'll get an alert when the box drops outside. The other option is to remotely open the gate so the driver can deliver it to the doorstep and the easiest way to do that is going to be a wireless camera with 2-way comms to relate a temporary gate code that also stalls them long enough for a solid license plate grab (in case). The distance to the gate from the shop is going to be pushing the 300' run even if I put another poe switch on the far side of the shop (it's 4,000 sq ft) from where I plan to run the MoCa and fiber doesn't make economic sense until I can talk my ISP into running a bridge as opposed to spending $1200+/year for a second fiber account and tunneling a VPN between the two JUST for the cameras.

Welcome @90_Moneypit

Lorex security cameras .. tend to be dahua oem models with smaller sensors for a good amount of change unless you were able to get one of their deals.

Can you still return the kit?

Share the part numbers and lookup the specs on the cameras. If you have smaller sensors I would return the kit.

If you are stuck with the kit, then I would augment with better larger sensor dahua oem cameras for a few critical views.
 
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The kit is: NP4K4F-168WD With the N884 NVR (w/ 4TB drive and an available 2nd drive bay for storage expansion) and 8 LNE9252B cameras, the Nocturnal 3 series. The deal itself was... rather attractive after negotiating with the sales manager so more than a couple hundred under MSRP and lower than their most current sale price of $1399. Appears to be the 1/2.8" CMOS sensor so I didn't get a 'true 4k' nightvision, but I also don't have a zero lux application here either. There are lights on the exterior of the shop, a dusk to dawn (beyond my control to remove or turn off) near the house, and activating 'deterrent' floods has always been part of my overall security plan. Despite sitting in the middle of 4 acres, there are only a couple trees (Bradford pears) and those are in a constant state of removing themselves one giant branch at a time every windstorm. There's not a lot of 'cover' on 3 of the 4 sides of my propery and the 4th side has a 7' solid metal fence on the residential side dropping to just a barbed wire were it meets a local natural gas piping station (with it's own rather complex but comprehensive security system I won't get into but it's pretty secure itself). I border a 3 acre occupied property near the gate and a 7 acre pasture along my longest edge (patrolled by donkeys, natures freindlier but quite effective watcchdogs) before getting into more multi-acre residents. I can diddle the shutter speeds and gain if need be to maximize the low light resolution but my main concern was the 30fps and not so much the 4k nightvision aspect to mitigate the ghost and blur.

I completely understand why you'd recommend returning it though since it's not truly a '4k nightvision' when it has a 2k sensor behind it. I AM however interested in which Dahua OEM you'd recommend for a longer distance 'establishing shot' location for vehicles traveling across ~1000' of driveway though. PTZ would be great if it wasn't a manual affair but I don't know if anyone has gotten around to makeing a decent automatic focus/tracking camera yet. I'm a little over a decade out of the loop on camera tech. Right now I'm looking for a 12 camera, 2 NVR setup with a budget around $1000-$1200 for 4 more cameras and another NVR that can play nice with the Lorex PRO app. Eventually, it will all migrate to Blue Iris on a used Dell Poweredge T330 (or similar-ish tower, not rack mount) so I can consolidate my NAS/Plex server and the NVR's but for now that's what I've 'won' in the fight with the wife.

My needs are far less intensive now and it would be realllllly hard selling the wife on too much high dollar tech when we bought 4 acres specifically for it's inherent 'people buffer'. I wanted the shop, she wanted the pool and pool house, the dog wanted to run. I can probably get away with spending another $1500 in turn-key solutions so long as she has ONE APP that isn't too difficult to navigate in order to view things in. I had a hard enough time explaining why a Ring or Nest system wasn't going to cut it for ME. Lorex is a solid enough name for her, with an App she can readily find. Down the road I'll fight the fight for Blue Iris as part of consolidating the 12-24 cameras I'll likely have spread across the shop/house and back 2 acres IF I start a doggy daycare to really minimize my day to day intereactions with the general poplulation. That's a whole different situation and setup though.
 
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Reactions: mat200
The kit is: NP4K4F-168WD With the N884 NVR (w/ 4TB drive and an available 2nd drive bay for storage expansion) and 8 LNE9252B cameras, the Nocturnal 3 series. The deal itself was... rather attractive after negotiating with the sales manager so more than a couple hundred under MSRP and lower than their most current sale price of $1399. Appears to be the 1/2.8" CMOS sensor so I didn't get a 'true 4k' nightvision, but I also don't have a zero lux application here either. There are lights on the exterior of the shop, a dusk to dawn (beyond my control to remove or turn off) near the house, and activating 'deterrent' floods has always been part of my overall security plan. Despite sitting in the middle of 4 acres, there are only a couple trees (Bradford pears) and those are in a constant state of removing themselves one giant branch at a time every windstorm. There's not a lot of 'cover' on 3 of the 4 sides of my propery and the 4th side has a 7' solid metal fence on the residential side dropping to just a barbed wire were it meets a local natural gas piping station (with it's own rather complex but comprehensive security system I won't get into but it's pretty secure itself). I border a 3 acre occupied property near the gate and a 7 acre pasture along my longest edge (patrolled by donkeys, natures freindlier but quite effective watcchdogs) before getting into more multi-acre residents. I can diddle the shutter speeds and gain if need be to maximize the low light resolution but my main concern was the 30fps and not so much the 4k nightvision aspect to mitigate the ghost and blur.

I completely understand why you'd recommend returning it though since it's not truly a '4k nightvision' when it has a 2k sensor behind it. I AM however interested in which Dahua OEM you'd recommend for a longer distance 'establishing shot' location for vehicles traveling across ~1000' of driveway though. PTZ would be great if it wasn't a manual affair but I don't know if anyone has gotten around to makeing a decent automatic focus/tracking camera yet. I'm a little over a decade out of the loop on camera tech. Right now I'm looking for a 12 camera, 2 NVR setup with a budget around $1000-$1200 for 4 more cameras and another NVR that can play nice with the Lorex PRO app. Eventually, it will all migrate to Blue Iris on a used Dell Poweredge T330 (or similar-ish tower, not rack mount) so I can consolidate my NAS/Plex server and the NVR's but for now that's what I've 'won' in the fight with the wife.

My needs are far less intensive now and it would be realllllly hard selling the wife on too much high dollar tech when we bought 4 acres specifically for it's inherent 'people buffer'. I wanted the shop, she wanted the pool and pool house, the dog wanted to run. I can probably get away with spending another $1500 in turn-key solutions so long as she has ONE APP that isn't too difficult to navigate in order to view things in. I had a hard enough time explaining why a Ring or Nest system wasn't going to cut it for ME. Lorex is a solid enough name for her, with an App she can readily find. Down the road I'll fight the fight for Blue Iris as part of consolidating the 12-24 cameras I'll likely have spread across the shop/house and back 2 acres IF I start a doggy daycare to really minimize my day to day intereactions with the general poplulation. That's a whole different situation and setup though.

Dahua makes several PTZ cams with human and automobile tracking.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mat200
The kit is: NP4K4F-168WD With the N884 NVR (w/ 4TB drive and an available 2nd drive bay for storage expansion) and 8 LNE9252B cameras, the Nocturnal 3 series. The deal itself was... rather attractive after negotiating with the sales manager so more than a couple hundred under MSRP and lower than their most current sale price of $1399. Appears to be the 1/2.8" CMOS sensor so I didn't get a 'true 4k' nightvision, but I also don't have a zero lux application here either. There are lights on the exterior of the shop, a dusk to dawn (beyond my control to remove or turn off) near the house, and activating 'deterrent' floods has always been part of my overall security plan. Despite sitting in the middle of 4 acres, there are only a couple trees (Bradford pears) and those are in a constant state of removing themselves one giant branch at a time every windstorm. There's not a lot of 'cover' on 3 of the 4 sides of my propery and the 4th side has a 7' solid metal fence on the residential side dropping to just a barbed wire were it meets a local natural gas piping station (with it's own rather complex but comprehensive security system I won't get into but it's pretty secure itself). I border a 3 acre occupied property near the gate and a 7 acre pasture along my longest edge (patrolled by donkeys, natures freindlier but quite effective watcchdogs) before getting into more multi-acre residents. I can diddle the shutter speeds and gain if need be to maximize the low light resolution but my main concern was the 30fps and not so much the 4k nightvision aspect to mitigate the ghost and blur.

I completely understand why you'd recommend returning it though since it's not truly a '4k nightvision' when it has a 2k sensor behind it. I AM however interested in which Dahua OEM you'd recommend for a longer distance 'establishing shot' location for vehicles traveling across ~1000' of driveway though. PTZ would be great if it wasn't a manual affair but I don't know if anyone has gotten around to makeing a decent automatic focus/tracking camera yet. I'm a little over a decade out of the loop on camera tech. Right now I'm looking for a 12 camera, 2 NVR setup with a budget around $1000-$1200 for 4 more cameras and another NVR that can play nice with the Lorex PRO app. Eventually, it will all migrate to Blue Iris on a used Dell Poweredge T330 (or similar-ish tower, not rack mount) so I can consolidate my NAS/Plex server and the NVR's but for now that's what I've 'won' in the fight with the wife.

My needs are far less intensive now and it would be realllllly hard selling the wife on too much high dollar tech when we bought 4 acres specifically for it's inherent 'people buffer'. I wanted the shop, she wanted the pool and pool house, the dog wanted to run. I can probably get away with spending another $1500 in turn-key solutions so long as she has ONE APP that isn't too difficult to navigate in order to view things in. I had a hard enough time explaining why a Ring or Nest system wasn't going to cut it for ME. Lorex is a solid enough name for her, with an App she can readily find. Down the road I'll fight the fight for Blue Iris as part of consolidating the 12-24 cameras I'll likely have spread across the shop/house and back 2 acres IF I start a doggy daycare to really minimize my day to day intereactions with the general poplulation. That's a whole different situation and setup though.

Have you bench tested the kit so far ?

Should be able to add Dahua OEM cameras to that kit, just need to sync the user / password and check the port onfo for the streams .. iirc when adding dahua oem cameras you need to configure the substream info .. we should have a thread here where that was covered.