New User with Cam Questions

[Ironheadchop]

Hello all, I am from WV and have some questions regarding camera systems. I built a house about 5 years ago and when I did I ran cat5 to about 16 locations on the outside of the home. Right now I only want to install 8. To save cable I ran all drops to a central spot in my attic to a POE switch, which then runs down to my main computer in my computer room where my NVR would go. My plan was to use the junction boxes for the camera and drop the cables through the soffit and then mount the camera that way, all camera would be under the soffits. When I was originally looking I was looking at the Lorex brand. They seem to have some really nice equipment that looks like it is pretty clear. Recently I was speaking with a guy that does camera systems here in town and he priced me some Dahua cameras and NVR. They were a good bit more than the Lorex ones i was looking at. After doing some googling it looks like Dahua owns Lorex? So are they like everything else that rebranded just the same item with a different sticker or are the truly different? Just looking for suggestions on which I should go with. My main concern is being clear enough to pull a plate number from something out in my driveway and clear enough at night to identify someone.

Can anyone throw out some suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Attached are pictures of my house. The camera i want the most to be able to see license plates is the corner of the house at the garage. That camera i think would also cover a good enough field of view to jaut have one camera?

 

[wittaj]

Welcome!

Glad you came here before buying.

Yes Dahua makes Lorex, but keep in mind the Lorex all in a box kit is a very stripped down version of a Dahua camera and NVR with less than ideal MP/sensor ratios among other things, like bandwidth limited NVR and lesser quality. It is built cheap to sell cheap.

When we had a thief come thru here and get into a lot of cars, the police couldn't use one video or photo from anyone's system but mine. Not even my other neighbors Costco Lorex $1,300 8MP system provided useful info - the cams just didn't cut it at night.

His system wasn't even a year old and after that event has started replacing with cameras from @EMPIRETECANDY here based on my recommendation and seeing my results. Andy's cameras were literally plug-n-play with the Lorex NVR. By the time we got inside, the cameras were already showing on his monitor. He is still shocked a 2MP camera performs better than his 4k cameras and he cannot figure out why- it is because his 8MP Lorex system was on the same size sensor as the 2MP so his cameras need over 4 times the light. Sensor size and optical zoom is more important than MP. Further mine could run in color and his could not.


Chase sensor size, not MP. Lorex will put 8MP on the sensor designed for a 2MP camera and then it will be useless at night.

We have found most installers want to spec out cheap end gear and overprice it. I suggest you get model numbers and check the specs. Dahua also sells cameras that are cheaper on the wrong MP/sensor size. I suspect he will spec out 5MP cameras, which nobody makes a 5MP on the ideal MP/sensor ratio, so they will perform poorly at night.

Post those models and costs and I assure you that you will be able to purchase yourself and install better quality for the same price or just a little more. @EMPIRETECANDY is a trusted vendor here with an Amazon storefront and has a sale coming up during Black Friday.

Lot's of threads here where people bought the Lorex and was disappointed with night quality:

Search results for query: lorex

ipcamtalk.com

See this thread on the importance of focal length over MP, along with the commonly recommended camera based on distance to IDENTIFY. In some instance 2MP is the right choice. The Lorex system you would be looking at is likely all 2.8 or 3.6mm fixed lens cameras, so IDENTIFY is going to be no further out than 10 feet at night regardless of MP....

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

Regarding plates, keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to OPTICALLY zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP 5241-Z12E camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

LPR

Licence Plate Reader cameras

ipcamtalk.com

 

[TonyR]

Welcome to IPCT !

 

[sebastiantombs]

 

[Rob2020]

DIY the system, the hard part (cables) is done. Look into Dahua (save with EmpireTech OEM rebrands). Start small with a single Dahua 4MP 5442 varifocal and scale from there. I like Blue Iris and built my system around Blue Iris and Dahua based on what I learned here, very happy.

ETA

Plan on more than one camera. A wise man told me they multiply like rabbits so I bought an 8 port switch as I planned for 4 cams and I thought I had some spare ports, that ship sailed Had to add a second eight port switch.

 

[Ironheadchop]

So looking at some of the suggestions on the one post that was suggested.
Thinking of using the following.
A 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm to put on my front porch to cover my front door and i think the FOV we cover enough to get some of the front windows if aimed right.
A 5241-Z12E at the corner of my garage pointing down my driveway to get plates/vehicle recognition of cars going up and down my driveway.

For the other 3 or 4 spots i think the 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm which is cheaper would be enough to cover the backdoor/backporch, garage mandoor, and the far corner of the back porch pointing down to the walkout side of my basement.

Do these sound ok?
With these, what NVR would you suggest?
My wife wants to be able to access these cameras from her phone while away. What will allow her to do that?

 

[Rob2020]

Those are all great cameras, finding the best focal length is mostly a trial an error process. The 3.6 is more popular here among the users IMO. You should be able to access the video from a mobile device with either Blue Iris or a NVR. When I came here I had done some pre-research and was planning on HIK and a NVR, I ended up with BI and Dahua. If you have a spare computer that supports BI hardware requirements you can get a trial to try BI before deciding on a NVR.

The following is for the 5442 DORI.

 

[Timokreon]

I really would suggest the IPC-T5442T-ZE for at least one of your cameras. Vari-focals really do help dial the FOV in, and can use one as a test around the house to see what cams would work best.

I would suggest NVR5216 or 5232-16P-4KS2E. Both will be on sale as well with EmpireTech Thanksgiving sale.
Also, the Dahua NVR will let you use their app to see the cameras on your phone. Use something like Wireguard, or another VPN.
Unless you're looking at getting into Blue Iris?

 

[samplenhold]

All good info given above.

Rember to check out the Cliff Notes and the WIKI on this site.

For LPR, read these two posts:

New to LPR? Considerations Before You Begin

Thought I would throw together a post on my experiences so far with LPR in an effort to help others that are considering running down that rabbit hole. There are some practical considerations you should know about LPR. I am approaching this from the position of using Blue Iris and Plate...

ipcamtalk.com

LPR Case Study: Scoping, Planning, Proof of Concept, Installation, & Results

Introduction This thread is about my journey into LPR (License Plate Recognition) after having about 18 months of experience with IP cams and having quite a bit of my system finished. I am not an expert on LPR, or IP cameras either. But I have spent a lot of time working with my system and...

ipcamtalk.com

To see why you need multiple cams and recording 24/7, see this thread:

Use of Overview and LPR Cams to Document Midnight Vehicle Distributing Offensive Flyers on Lawns

We were out of town and I was checking my cams remotely one morning and noticed one of the Deputies that regularly patrol my subdivision had been at my front door. She has come to me a few times requesting video as she knows I have fairly good coverage of the streets at my corner. I noticed that...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[samplenhold]

I really would suggest the IPC-T5442T-ZE for at least one of your cameras. Vari-focals really do help dial the FOV in, and can use one as a test around the house to see what cams would work best.

This is a very good recommendation. Buy this one cam and use it to test cam position ideas. Do this BEFORE you make the installs. Use a test rig. Walk it day and night. Still scenes are nice to look at, but a human walking, motion, is what will kill the usefulness if you do not get it right.

 

[Ironheadchop]

Those are all great cameras, finding the best focal length is mostly a trial an error process. The 3.6 is more popular here among the users IMO. You should be able to access the video from a mobile device with either Blue Iris or a NVR. When I came here I had done some pre-research and was planning on HIK and a NVR, I ended up with BI and Dahua. If you have a spare computer that supports BI hardware requirements you can get a trial to try BI before deciding on a NVR.

The following is for the 5442 DORI.
View attachment 145158

Do i need a spare computer? Or can i use my main as it never turns off. Either way i do have spares just be easier to use my main pc at my desk. Do i need a NVR if i buy the Blue Iris software?

 

[wittaj]

Do i need a spare computer? Or can i use my main as it never turns off. Either way i do have spares just be easier to use my main pc at my desk. Do i need a NVR if i buy the Blue Iris software?

Best practice is to have the computer be just for BI, similar to how an NVR is just for cameras.

Does that mean that everyone does that no - some will use it for email and light web surfing.

But you could certainly use it to test BI. I knew within 30 min that is was superior to my experiences with NVRs.

No you do not need an NVR - a BI/computer combo is in essence an NVR, just a more powerful one!

 

[Ironheadchop]

Best practice is to have the computer be just for BI, similar to how an NVR is just for cameras.

Does that mean that everyone does that no - some will use it for email and light web surfing.

But you could certainly use it to test BI. I knew within 30 min that is was superior to my experiences with NVRs.

No you do not need an NVR - a BI/computer combo is in essence an NVR, just a more powerful one!

How do i get all 8 cameras hooked to the PC? I assume they all run into a switch then from there to the spare PC?

 

[wittaj]

That is correct - just hook all the cameras to POE switches and then from the switch to the computer.

 

[Ironheadchop]

So I had a local camera company come out to give me a price on just the equipment and some suggestions. He suggested all I would need would be 2.8 turrets for the 4 cameras i want to do just right now. Attached is the data sheet for the cameras he was suggesting. Are these similar or better/worse than the 5442 i was looking at getting from Empire?

 

[wittaj]

How much for that camera?

So all of your IDENTIFY is within 10 feet of the camera and the camera will be no more than 7 feet high? If not, it is the wrong focal length.

That is 8MP on the 1/1.8" sensor, which is the idea sensor for 4MP that the 5442 is. The 5442 will be better.

8MP should be on 1/1.2" sensor.

 

[Ironheadchop]

How much for that camera?

So all of your IDENTIFY is within 10 feet of the camera and the camera will be no more than 7 feet high? If not, it is the wrong focal length.

That is 8MP on the 1/1.8" sensor, which is the idea sensor for 4MP that the 5442 is. The 5442 will be better.

8MP should be on 1/1.2" sensor.

Around $300. All but 3 of the cameras will be up in my soffit which is at least 10-12 ft up in the air.

 

[wittaj]

WOW what a markup. That is the USA version of the camera Andy sells for $190, the 5842.

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-Eyeball-Detection-Fixed-Focal-IPC-T5842TM-SE/dp/B0B1DF4SDL/ref=sr_1_33?imprToken=eNnu.Pmf5hsW5hcTVECAQg&linkCode=w61&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1668108547&redirect=true&s=merchant-items&slotNum=0&sr=1-33

 

[wittaj]

10-12 feet up in the air with a 2.8mm will get you tops of heads and hoodies. You are losing a lot of the IDENTIFY distance in the vertical. It is ok for OBSERVE overview.

You need more focal length and stretch out the horizontal distance in order to "flatten" then angle to get faces.

 

[samplenhold]

Realize that the installer needs to make a profit. So $300 for a $190 cam is not too bad. How much for the install?

As far as his expertise on choosing equipment, that is debatable. He obviously did not take much thought on which cams to deploy where. He is probably just picking the same cam he always uses, and probably gets a discount for buying in bulk.

For your property and your stated desires, 8K, 1/1.8" 2.8mm wide angle cams will not give you identifiable video, especially at night. They will look very pretty for still shots during the day, but that is about it.