New User with Cam Questions
- Thread starter Ironheadchop
- Start date
The Dahua 4MP 1.8 5442 will outperform the suggested camera at night. I picked up a Dahua 8MP 1.8 for the sole purpose of higher resolution day photos. I was surprised how poorly it performs at night.
The installer recommended camera is not a bad camera by any means but the focal length one size fits all approach, and the fact that the 5442 will perform better at night should be considered.
The installer recommended camera is not a bad camera by any means but the focal length one size fits all approach, and the fact that the 5442 will perform better at night should be considered.
The IPC-T5442T-ZE are 189 on right now. The 3.6mm 5442 are 159. Should i just fork out the extra $30 and just get all 4 of my cams the vari focal one? Would it be worth it?
Mike A.
Known around here
- May 6, 2017
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I think so. Unless cost is your main concern. I've moved most of my cams over time and/or changed views from what I originally planned. Having varifocals makes them a lot more flexible and more useful no matter where they end up.
You are asking all the right questions! Some of this barrage of info feels counter-intuitive at first-- welcome to the addiction! LOL
btw--- for $189, you are getting a better camera that is varifocal for $110 less than that original quote. You DO know what that means-- right?? Adjust your thinking from "I'm saving money on this!" because the reality is that it means you get to buy TWO MORE CAMS! That is a WIN.
Also, don't forget @EMPIRETECANDY Thanksgiving sale coming up. Might save a little more cash waiting a few more days.
@Ironheadchop Beautiful property. This would be a fun project.
If it was my property, in addition to fixed cameras, I would install something like this on my roof.
If it was my property, in addition to fixed cameras, I would install something like this on my roof.
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
Looking at the scenery, critters (both two and four legged), sky, etc.
Most newbies make the following mistakes.
Trying to cover too much with one camera.
Mounting them too high.
Using wide angle lens that will make it difficult to get face ID's, you want to know who did it, not just what happened.
Trying to cheap out....buy once, cry once.
Have you studied the Cliff Notes yet? It will answer a lot of questions.
Purchase one 5442 varifocal, get used to it and it's capability's.
Always use a test rig, test every proposed location a minimum of 24hrs prior to permanent mounting.
What looks good on paper doesn't always work out.
This PTZ would be a great way to look around the property, especially when there is clear line of sight, 360 deg, from top of your roof.
Again, not a replacement for fixed cameras but an addition.
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@Ironheadchop I would not buy the above camera kit.
#1: The camera spec as listed on the above website
- Image Sensor: 8MP: 1/2.7" HD Cmos
#2: All the cameras in the above kit is 2.8mm lens. It's good if the intruder is up close and near your house but not good if you care about monitoring a distance out. Take @looney2ns advice and get a varifocal first and experiment with the zoom that you will need.
#3: Is the above member a vendor?
Yes, and they've been reported already to Admin.
I was thinking this was a spam post. After doing my reading this past week from info from you all i was able to see that was not anywhere close to as good as what you all have helped me figure out.
So got 2 cameras up just to see how they look. The back door was to close for the varifocal so i used a 3.6 fixed. I put the 2.7‐12 varifocal up in the soffit looking down at my walkout door. Im happy with the backdoor as its really clear and i think i can identify with that camera. The walkout is so high from being in the soffit and at the bottom level but i think with the varifocal i can get it close enough to the door and patio it could work. I am still unable to get my dahua NVR to work with the remote app though.
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Mike A.
Known around here
- May 6, 2017
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I think that you'll likely want to turn the cam in the second pic away from the house much more. You don't need to see siding and you'll probably get a lot of IR reflection off of it. If you could get it lower, that would be better and give you a greater view out to the horizon vs looking at the ground.
If it were me, I'd probably move the cam in the first pic more to the door side looking out and down the deck. You'll have a better view in that direction to see someone/something approaching and more opportunity to capture things. You might better use that position to look down along the other side of the house where the AC compressor is in the same way.
You've got such a nice area around you and assume wildlife that goes along with that. I'd be trying to position things to look out more where I can and adding cams just to do that also.
Which cams did you end up with? The 5442s?
If it were me, I'd probably move the cam in the first pic more to the door side looking out and down the deck. You'll have a better view in that direction to see someone/something approaching and more opportunity to capture things. You might better use that position to look down along the other side of the house where the AC compressor is in the same way.
You've got such a nice area around you and assume wildlife that goes along with that. I'd be trying to position things to look out more where I can and adding cams just to do that also.
Which cams did you end up with? The 5442s?
I went with the 5442's yes. I did turn the one at the back door more after i took the picture to catch the sidewalk and back door, the camera is right above my steps so i can get both the walk steps and backdoor. Ill add another one to look down the back porch later. The one for the basement i cant lower. I can turn it some but it just points out to a hayfield. If anyone will come it will be from right over the bank where those chairs are, that is why i got it zoomed and facing more towards the corner of the house.
Mike A.
Known around here
- May 6, 2017
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Good choice for the cams. Yeah, don't know what you have planned for other cams so just going by what I see there and in your earlier pics. Generally, I prefer to have things looking out vs at the house for the reasons mentioned. Doesn't mean that you shouldn't have any pointed at it where that works best.
Hayfield is better than a white flood off of the siding and what that does to the rest of the image. ; ) And looking at siding for near half of the view isn't really getting you much of anything. Grass is better than that. You can still keep the same zoom level to the chairs, they'll just be more to the left.
You might be able to use corridor/portrait mode better there. Would give you less siding/grass and a little more view in the direction behind the chairs. Looks kind of odd when different vs all the rest of your cams though.
I'm assuming that you just put those up today and haven't run it at night yet. Try it tonight and see how it goes. I think you'll better see what I mean.
Yes. Just put them up. Cant wait to see what they look like at night. Ill check out and see about the corridor mode.
Now keep in mind to get best performance out of the camera, default/auto setting does not cut it, especially at night.
The cameras tend to favor a nice bright static image that results in motion blur and ghosting when left on default settings.
Here is my "standard" post that many use as a start for dialing in day and night that helps get the clean captures, but also helps with AI:
Every field of view is different, but I have found you need contrast to usually be 6-8 higher than the brightness number at night.
But first, run H264, smart codec off, CBR, and 8192 bitrate to start, along with 15 FPS and 15 i-frame.
We want the ability to freeze frame capture a clean image from the video at night, and that is only done with a shutter of 1/60 or faster. At night, default/auto may be on 1/12s shutter or worse to make the image bright.
In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.
Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.
Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-4ms exposure and 0-30 gain (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared or white light.
Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night static image results in Casper blur and ghost during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?
In the daytime, if it is still too bright, then drop the 4ms down to 3ms then 2ms, etc. You have to play with it for your field of view.
Then at night, if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.
You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.
You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.
But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.
Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.
After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.
The cameras tend to favor a nice bright static image that results in motion blur and ghosting when left on default settings.
Here is my "standard" post that many use as a start for dialing in day and night that helps get the clean captures, but also helps with AI:
Every field of view is different, but I have found you need contrast to usually be 6-8 higher than the brightness number at night.
But first, run H264, smart codec off, CBR, and 8192 bitrate to start, along with 15 FPS and 15 i-frame.
We want the ability to freeze frame capture a clean image from the video at night, and that is only done with a shutter of 1/60 or faster. At night, default/auto may be on 1/12s shutter or worse to make the image bright.
In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.
Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.
Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-4ms exposure and 0-30 gain (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared or white light.
Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night static image results in Casper blur and ghost during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?
In the daytime, if it is still too bright, then drop the 4ms down to 3ms then 2ms, etc. You have to play with it for your field of view.
Then at night, if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.
You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.
You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.
But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.
Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.
After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.