Newb. Considering this system. Feedback please.

2ndA

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  • Synology DS218play NAS w/ DSM/Surveillance Station OS
DiskStation DS218play | Synology Inc.
  • Buffalo Smart PoE switch BS-GS2008P
PoE Smart Business Switch | Buffalo Americas
  • Dahua 2MP mini dome EXMOR N24BL52 (front door for package delivery and ID of miscellaneous idiots)
N24BL52 / N24BL53
  • Dahua 6MP mini bullet STARVIS N64CB32 (x2 to cover the street 180deg)
N64CB32/N64CB33
  • Dahua 2MP eyeball EXMOR N24BG52 (backyard corner to cover 3 house entries)
N24BG52 / N24BG53

Im open to feedback and suggestions (before I spend this money)…

  • Going to get the Synology RT2600ac VPN router and add it to my existing system and place the NAS behind it. Probably use ExpressVPN as the service. Was looking at NVR’s w PoE’s but for various reasons, I’d rather have the NAS to use as a file and multimedia server as well. The Synology NAS is H265 compatible, so I just need to verify with them the latest Dahua Pro series cameras I want to use are compatible and can be configured to the NAS. The NAS processor is a Ghz quad-core, so Im hoping this is sufficient for encoding and will not be a bottleneck, and with expansion, for years to come.
  • I have good experience with Buffalo, and all these specs check out for IPcam/PoE. I like the green protocol they use which shuts power down to unused ports. Gonna try my luck with port trunking as well (more homework) if use is practical. I want to use a smart switch for increased functionality. PIA I know, but Im not scared to get my hands dirty.
  • My choice for brand cameras was due to favorable user/industry review and 5yr warranty of the Dahua product. For the street coverage was based on a mix of higher resolution of 6MP for review zoom clarity mixed with the excellent STARVIS processor for low light enhancement. Resolution at the front door (3-15ft) will be sufficient using 1080p and the choice of camera for this duty has audio in/out and I would like to explore this functionality. As this is a dome camera, Im hoping I will not have a problem with the vertical mount at the front door wall.
  • Ive seen reviews for the eyeball cameras and the excellent low light capability of the EXMOR’s so I will try this. A bonus is the 110deg viewing angle. Resolution in the backyard area is not so pressing (to me) relative to the alarm. This opinion may change and I may just add another camera for better coverage and resolution. But if you have someone in your backyard, you may have bigger problems than camera resolution.

Thanks in advance for any assistance. Cheers
 

mat200

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  • Synology DS218play NAS w/ DSM/Surveillance Station OS
DiskStation DS218play | Synology Inc.
  • Buffalo Smart PoE switch BS-GS2008P
PoE Smart Business Switch | Buffalo Americas
  • Dahua 2MP mini dome EXMOR N24BL52 (front door for package delivery and ID of miscellaneous idiots)
N24BL52 / N24BL53
  • Dahua 6MP mini bullet STARVIS N64CB32 (x2 to cover the street 180deg)
N64CB32/N64CB33
  • Dahua 2MP eyeball EXMOR N24BG52 (backyard corner to cover 3 house entries)
N24BG52 / N24BG53

Im open to feedback and suggestions (before I spend this money)…

  • Going to get the Synology RT2600ac VPN router and add it to my existing system and place the NAS behind it. Probably use ExpressVPN as the service. Was looking at NVR’s w PoE’s but for various reasons, I’d rather have the NAS to use as a file and multimedia server as well. The Synology NAS is H265 compatible, so I just need to verify with them the latest Dahua Pro series cameras I want to use are compatible and can be configured to the NAS. The NAS processor is a Ghz quad-core, so Im hoping this is sufficient for encoding and will not be a bottleneck, and with expansion, for years to come.
  • I have good experience with Buffalo, and all these specs check out for IPcam/PoE. I like the green protocol they use which shuts power down to unused ports. Gonna try my luck with port trunking as well (more homework) if use is practical. I want to use a smart switch for increased functionality. PIA I know, but Im not scared to get my hands dirty.
  • My choice for brand cameras was due to favorable user/industry review and 5yr warranty of the Dahua product. For the street coverage was based on a mix of higher resolution of 6MP for review zoom clarity mixed with the excellent STARVIS processor for low light enhancement. Resolution at the front door (3-15ft) will be sufficient using 1080p and the choice of camera for this duty has audio in/out and I would like to explore this functionality. As this is a dome camera, Im hoping I will not have a problem with the vertical mount at the front door wall.
  • Ive seen reviews for the eyeball cameras and the excellent low light capability of the EXMOR’s so I will try this. A bonus is the 110deg viewing angle. Resolution in the backyard area is not so pressing (to me) relative to the alarm. This opinion may change and I may just add another camera for better coverage and resolution. But if you have someone in your backyard, you may have bigger problems than camera resolution.

Thanks in advance for any assistance. Cheers
Welcome 2ndA,

Curious how much those Dahua cameras will cost.

For the front door / porch area I like either the mini-dome wedge ( smaller dome that what you are looking at ) or the eyeball / turret style you're looking to set in the backyard.
 

2ndA

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The 6MP are roughly $210 and the 2MP are roughly $175.

I was looking at the dome wedge but it only has one way audio.
 

mat200

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The 6MP are roughly $210 and the 2MP are roughly $175.

I was looking at the dome wedge but it only has one way audio.
Hi 2ndA

Is your purpose for 2 way audio to talk to someone at the front door?
 

mat200

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that might be useful for me, yes.
If you want to talk to someone at the front door, and that is the purpose of 2 way audio - then you should look at a video intercom product - Dahua has a line of "villa station" models on this, and there are other "video doorbells". The point is that for 2 way talking they use VoIP technology.

Most security cameras are not designed for 2 way talking, so you do not see many models which are intended to be used that way.

Are you OK with buying from China? If so then you can save some money by buying similar international models of the cameras from Andy EmpireTecAndy ( his handle here ).
 

fenderman

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The 6mp "starvis" is not a true low light camera...they have those but they are more expensive...using a larger imx178 sensor...
You can but them direct from china for 325 (international model fully upgradable) you can buy the 2mp fixed starlight for 100 and the varifocal for 170....the savings is enough to self insure..
Note that nas has fps limitations (different for h264 and 265)...if you are willing to pay synology a per camera license fee, you are better off looking at digital watchdogs vms offering (network optix north american distributor)..its 70 per camera with lifetime version upgrades free...will easily run on a 100 dollar 3rd gen i5-3570 pc..or you can look at blue iris (60 total + 10 for mobile app) if less than 8 cameras milestone is free. Avoid dome cameras...look for turret form factors.
 

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I'd sure advise you consider varifocal cameras, at least some of them. Makes the job much easier and allows you to get the focus point exactly right. It sucks when after you have the camera mounted you find that 4mm should have been a 6mm or vice versa...plus those are all wide angle 2.8 and 3.6 cameras...you'll likely need a tighter shot in places to capture enough detail beyond 10-12 ft..
 

2ndA

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If you want to talk to someone at the front door, and that is the purpose of 2 way audio - then you should look at a video intercom product - Dahua has a line of "villa station" models on this, and there are other "video doorbells". The point is that for 2 way talking they use VoIP technology. Most security cameras are not designed for 2 way talking, so you do not see many models which are intended to be used that way. Are you OK with buying from China? If so then you can save some money by buying similar international models of the cameras from Andy EmpireTecAndy ( his handle here ).
Point taken. Security cameras are probably not best suited for voice communication. If I abandon this feature, other camera options are more likely. Will probably save me later frustration. There might be more to what Im reading regarding the Villa intercoms however, they don't provide IVS and seem like they depend on doorbell activation for recording? Cant tell, the webpage literature is limited. The idea and price point of these offerings are "nice to have" additions, but again, point taken regarding audio comm.

I don't have anything against China, just their electronics tend to be inferior. I will take a look at anyway. Cheers.
 

2ndA

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The 6mp "starvis" is not a true low light camera...they have those but they are more expensive...using a larger imx178 sensor...
You can but them direct from china for 325 (international model fully upgradable) you can buy the 2mp fixed starlight for 100 and the varifocal for 170....the savings is enough to self insure..
Note that nas has fps limitations (different for h264 and 265)...if you are willing to pay synology a per camera license fee, you are better off looking at digital watchdogs vms offering (network optix north american distributor)..its 70 per camera with lifetime version upgrades free...will easily run on a 100 dollar 3rd gen i5-3570 pc..or you can look at blue iris (60 total + 10 for mobile app) if less than 8 cameras milestone is free. Avoid dome cameras...look for turret form factors.
Not sure I understand. Are you saying the Dahua "STARVIS" is not a good performing camera? Or that STARVIS is not a good technology? If so, to either of these, which brand/model should I look at for a balance of low light performance and overall quality?

The particular NAS I chose has a max 4K resolution and max 60fps. I am fine with this.
The DW stuff is interesting and I will analyze their hardware/software solutions however, I am not currently interested to run a PC even though BI seems to be a solid product from what I have researched.

"Avoid dome cameras." Ive read this in other threads. Thanks for the reminder!
 

2ndA

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I'd sure advise you consider varifocal cameras, at least some of them. Makes the job much easier and allows you to get the focus point exactly right. It sucks when after you have the camera mounted you find that 4mm should have been a 6mm or vice versa...plus those are all wide angle 2.8 and 3.6 cameras...you'll likely need a tighter shot in places to capture enough detail beyond 10-12 ft..
This is also good advice. Pay now or pay later. Lets go with "now". Duh.
 

2ndA

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You guys are fawking awesome. Thanks for the great feedback.
Please feel free to beat up on my ideas and point out my weaknesses (I'm not a millennial, I can take it).

Thanks!
 

mat200

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You guys are fawking awesome. Thanks for the great feedback.
Please feel free to beat up on my ideas and point out my weaknesses (I'm not a millennial, I can take it).

Thanks!
Hi 2ndA

Take a look at the notes and pointers giomania and I have assembled to some great threads and posts here:
Resource Guide on IP Technology for all Noobs

Dig a bit a look closely at the various Dahua OEM starlight models.
Also, I have a link in there pointing to a thread comparing the 8MP dahua camera to a 2MP dahua starlight.

If you purchase from Andy ( ref #15 in my list ) - you can save some money and get a good international version.

Note not many here seem to use NAS as the NVR / VMS. It seems there are more cost effective solutions than the Surveillance Station licensing. Look at some of fenderman's posts on options. Many here like Blue Iris a lot.
 

fenderman

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Not sure I understand. Are you saying the Dahua "STARVIS" is not a good performing camera? Or that STARVIS is not a good technology? If so, to either of these, which brand/model should I look at for a balance of low light performance and overall quality?

The particular NAS I chose has a max 4K resolution and max 60fps. I am fine with this.
The DW stuff is interesting and I will analyze their hardware/software solutions however, I am not currently interested to run a PC even though BI seems to be a solid product from what I have researched.

"Avoid dome cameras." Ive read this in other threads. Thanks for the reminder!
I'm saying starvis is the general marketing term some are much better than others...
As far as running a PC that's exactly what you're doing with a nas except they're calling it a nas.... I'm not telling you to look at the dw hardware I'm telling you to look at their software specifically their VMS...
 

2ndA

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Hi 2ndA

Take a look at the notes and pointers giomania and I have assembled to some great threads and posts here:
Resource Guide on IP Technology for all Noobs

Dig a bit a look closely at the various Dahua OEM starlight models.
Also, I have a link in there pointing to a thread comparing the 8MP dahua camera to a 2MP dahua starlight.

If you purchase from Andy ( ref #15 in my list ) - you can save some money and get a good international version.

Note not many here seem to use NAS as the NVR / VMS. It seems there are more cost effective solutions than the Surveillance Station licensing. Look at some of fenderman's posts on options. Many here like Blue Iris a lot.
- yes, the resource guide! read through it the other day. great stuff.
- what means "OEM" models?
- are there drawbacks to getting an international version?

it might be difficult to get info on why using NAS is not beneficial if not many appear to use such a configuration. im not stuck on getting an NAS however, i have surmised through my brief research that i would benefit from its purpose and usage.

i went over to D-W to learn about their VMS as fenderman suggested however, when attempting to download the DW Spectrum brochure a popup appears asking for basic personal information (purportedly a condition of obtaining the download). wtf is that about? already unimpressed. no problem, enter bogus data and viola, i get the download link. but JHC, the brochure has a spelling error in big bold letters on page 2 proclaiming, "Complete Scable Video Management". yeah, "Scable." whatever, so what, big deal. but thats already two strikes for me. those little things aside, D-W seems to be a worthwhile product solution to investigate further. can you suggest an NVR for my particular need? apologize for not being able to figure this out on my own, but the layout of the site is not helpful if you're not familiar with their myriad of products.

as i mentioned, im not stuck on an NAS or Synology, but honestly, even if i had seen D-W before Synology, i would have came to same result as my original post. i understand the pros/cons of proprietary OS vs open source vs windows based platforms. but how is one solution superior to another, other than preference or aversion towards one company or another? the testimony in this forum is a good source for such info. however, just as i will include suggestions made by the forum to my list, i will not necessarily exclude a product based solely on opinion.
 

mat200

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- yes, the resource guide! read through it the other day. great stuff.
- what means "OEM" models?
- are there drawbacks to getting an international version?

it might be difficult to get info on why using NAS is not beneficial if not many appear to use such a configuration. im not stuck on getting an NAS however, ..
Hi 2ndA,

OEM - original equipment manufacturer - basically Dahua models which are intended for others to rebrand
Internation models - vs US models - US models go through Dahua USA and sometimes there are less choices of models. International models are good solid products, Chinese market models can be challenging to update the firmware - and at times built with cheaper components / materials to keep the cost lower due to the Chinese consumers having less funds for purchase. ( Thus many of us like the international models better than Chinese market cameras )

Normally a Dahua OEM international models means you will not have a local ( in country ) vendor supporting you. Most of us here have picked up those models - and this forum is a place where we go to help each other get the cameras up and going. Typically the vendor many of us purchase them from will provide warranty for DOA and other hardware issues, and provide us links to software / firmware which we can use to update the cameras. Turns out to be a lot more DIY help for configurations and other setup issues - however, as some in country vendors do not seem to do much there anyways, this works well for many of us who are looking for models which are not readily available in country.

ON the NAS option - if you do not need a NAS for other reasons I see little reason to get it. In fact I would recommend freeNAS as a good NAS option if you need a NAS - and either a NVR or VMS like Blue Iris for the security cameras. As you are already planning to get a PoE switch you can try out several of the different VMS products out there - and yes, I know the irritating aspect of some of those wanting all sorts of data .. maybe worth just looking at other VMS options if you do not like to fillout random info in those forms.
 

mark_whocares

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Speaking as someone with a synology (DS916+ if you care) .

I'd recommend just getting a real NVR (Dahua or whatever will match your cams).After a while tinkering with the Surveillance Station software for my needs i'm pretty much convinced i'm getting a dedicated Dahua NVR (w/out the built in POE switch parts).

Synology stuff:
the per cam license is annoying.(50 a cam IIRC)

the Surveillance Station software isn't that awesome (buggy...)

Camera support is sometimes challenging. (e.g. I've had a lot of problems getting the H.265 feeds to be stable even for cams it says it supports). seems like after any given Syno update i'm manually doing things to kick everything in the head to get the feeds working again.

basically - what i've come to learn is the synology does a lot of things, but it does few of them REALLY well. just a lot of things acceptable-ish.

(using it for TimeMachine target, Multi media streamin in the house, vpn, dns, file server, code repo, and probably some other stuff i'm forgetting)
 

2ndA

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Speaking as someone with a synology (DS916+ if you care) .

I'd recommend just getting a real NVR (Dahua or whatever will match your cams).After a while tinkering with the Surveillance Station software for my needs i'm pretty much convinced i'm getting a dedicated Dahua NVR (w/out the built in POE switch parts).

Synology stuff:
the per cam license is annoying.(50 a cam IIRC)

the Surveillance Station software isn't that awesome (buggy...)

Camera support is sometimes challenging. (e.g. I've had a lot of problems getting the H.265 feeds to be stable even for cams it says it supports). seems like after any given Syno update i'm manually doing things to kick everything in the head to get the feeds working again.

basically - what i've come to learn is the synology does a lot of things, but it does few of them REALLY well. just a lot of things acceptable-ish.

(using it for TimeMachine target, Multi media streamin in the house, vpn, dns, file server, code repo, and probably some other stuff i'm forgetting)
its looking as if i will probably end up with both nvr and nas as you suggest. however, i want to try it first and see how annoyed i can get with the security portion of this solution, or perhaps it will end up working for me, wishful thinking. one of the controls engineers at my work i use to work with, i found out while bouncing LAN questions off him, he uses synology! he likes his setup a lot and he's a bigtime windows geek/hack. so after talking to him at length, im really looking forward to having a dedicated server in any case.

questions please:
how many cameras are you using?
how much space do you typically use with h265?
what is your experience with remote viewing of cameras on mobile device using your vpn? (i presume thats how you have it configured, i have since learned it is possible to securely perform remote viewing w/o a vpn using DSM app)
which raid version are you using on what model drives?
do you stream HD from outside your lan? (i dont think this will be realistic regarding bandwith but i would like to retain the ability)
im interested in Btrfs. your thoughts?

thanks in advance!
 
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