Newb with Questions About Reolink Cameras

[HomeWPoe]

@wittaj, thanks again for your reply. I'm very clear on the good cam/bad OEM software and bad cam/good OEM software relationship.

However, what would be helpful, at this point, is knowing how the DMSS iOS app handles alerts. Yes, overall the DMSS iOS app may be seen as inferior to Reolink; however, it's possible DMSS may handle alerts in a way that makes it useable and functional for us. Would rather not go with BI or other VMS unless we have to. We're just homeowners in a near zero-crime neighborhood looking for a system with a basic alert capability: 1) immediate access to alert videos from our iPhone and 2) access to a running log of all current/past alerts (viewed and not viewed). About as basic as it gets.

What gives me a small sliver of hope is the DMSS iOS app's 4.8 rating (35k reviews). The Reolink iOS app rates a 4.0 (5.9k).

 

[mat200]

@wittaj, thanks again for your reply. I'm very clear on the good cam/bad OEM software and bad cam/good OEM software relationship.

However, what would be helpful, at this point, is knowing how the DMSS iOS app handles alerts. Yes, overall the DMSS iOS app may be seen as inferior to Reolink; however, it's possible DMSS may handle alerts in a way that makes it useable and functional for us. Would rather not go with BI or other VMS unless we have to. We're just homeowners in a near zero-crime neighborhood looking for a system with a basic alert capability: 1) immediate access to alert videos from our iPhone and 2) access to a running log of all current/past alerts (viewed and not viewed). About as basic as it gets.

What gives me a small sliver of hope is the DMSS iOS app's 4.8 rating (35k reviews). The Reolink iOS app rates a 4.0 (5.9k).

note, the mobile app alerts is one reason why I throw in a few cloud cameras into my mix .. I don't have iOS mobile devices, so you have to see which cloud cameras work for you here.

My basic setup is a hybrid one.
1) A few cloud cameras for mobile app needs
2) a core IP PoE camera setup for quality image capture needs

Yes, I know would be nice to have it all in one system .. just have not found that yet.

 

[wittaj]

Well people also say Reolink's are great cameras LOL

One of many areas where I think BI does a better job is how it displays the alerts/timeline, and I believe it is still the same as when I last ran SmartPSS and DMSS, and was the same for the NVR I recently set up for a neighbor.

He has to wait for the recording to finish before he can play it back.

As we can see from this screenshot, it gives a green timeline with lines at various times to show when it triggered. Over to the right is a graphic/text representation of each trigger, but no image of the trigger.

So when I wanted to find or look at something, I needed to click each one until I found what I was looking for.

Wanna know when UPS came by in an NVR....well just start clicking on the timeline triggers till you see the UPS truck. May take awhile depending on the amount of traffic that goes by.

With BI, it gives alert thumbnails, so I can quickly scroll and find UPS way quicker than I ever could with an NVR playback timeline.

So if you are ok with generic images instead of images of your cameras, then DMSS is for you LOL...

Are Dahua NVR event 'thumbnail images' visible on any mobile apps?

The DMSS app uses placeholder thumbnail images for event snapshots. This leads me to believe actual snapshots could / should be available. I've set all events to record snapshots as well as record. One can see in the NVR interface - there are lovely cropped images. This would be an ideal way...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[HomeWPoe]

@mat200, surprised to hear you had to go hybrid to get the alert coverage you needed. Hope we're not asking for too much from one app. Time will tell I guess.

 

[HomeWPoe]

@wittaj, I only used BI for a few hours, but I did notice the thumbnails pop-up for each alert---nice feature. For us, not a deal breaker. Our cameras will not be pointed at any high-traffic, public areas. On a typical day we usually received 4-6 alerts when we had our cheap wifi cams. We tried to view the alerts realtime, but when we didn't it took less than a minute or two to manually review them all. Thumbnails are nice, but we have our sights set lower.

If DMSS will allow us to view the video for a simple text alert near real-time (within a few seconds of receiving the alert), while recording continuously to a micro SD card (without an NVR), we'd be happy.

Can you clarify your comment, "He has to wait for the recording to finish before he can play it back"? What software were you using with your neighbor's NVR? How long of a wait? Were these short, motion triggered recordings? Would this wait also apply when recording continuously 24/7 to a micro SD card? Thanks.

 

[wittaj]

@mat200, surprised to hear you had to go hybrid to get the alert coverage you needed. Hope we're not asking for too much from one app. Time will tell I guess.

And to muddy the water even more lol, many of us don't use the BI app for notifications but instead use an app called pushover that provides much more robust functionality.

 

[HomeWPoe]

And to muddy the water even more lol, many of us don't use the BI app for notifications but instead use an app called pushover that provides much more robust functionality.

I was researching Pushover when you mentioned it in an earlier post. Will probably dig deeper once we've confirmed DMSS is a no-go.

 

[wittaj]

@wittaj, I only used BI for a few hours, but I did notice the thumbnails pop-up for each alert---nice feature. For us, not a deal breaker. Our cameras will not be pointed at any high-traffic, public areas. On a typical day we usually received 4-6 alerts when we had our cheap wifi cams. We tried to view the alerts realtime, but when we didn't it took less than a minute or two to manually review them all. Thumbnails are nice, but we have our sights set lower.

If DMSS will allow us to view the video for a simple text alert near real-time (within a few seconds of receiving the alert), while recording continuously to a micro SD card (without an NVR), we'd be happy.

Can you clarify your comment, "He has to wait for the recording to finish before he can play it back"? What software were you using with your neighbor's NVR? How long of a wait? Were these short, motion triggered recordings? Would this wait also apply when recording continuously 24/7 to a micro SD card? Thanks.

My neighbor is using iDMSS with a NVR.

When I go to watch a clip on one of my cameras from the SD card, I have to wait for the clip to finish recording.

Another wrinkle for you LOL - It is not recommended to record continuously to an SD card. In addition to the quicker wear times (which some are OK with having to replace frequently), these cameras are basically little mini computers and at times the camera gets overloaded/wonky with a full SD card and trying to write over an already filled SD card and will stutter, miss your key motion, etc. Plus depending on your settings you may get less than 36 hours of video.

 

[bigredfish]

DMSS works just fine for your requirements. I use it

 

[HomeWPoe]

My neighbor is using iDMSS with a NVR.

When I go to watch a clip on one of my cameras from the SD card, I have to wait for the clip to finish recording.

Another wrinkle for you LOL - It is not recommended to record continuously to an SD card. In addition to the quicker wear times (which some are OK with having to replace frequently), these cameras are basically little mini computers and at times the camera gets overloaded/wonky with a full SD card and trying to write over an already filled SD card and will stutter, miss your key motion, etc. Plus depending on your settings you may get less than 36 hours of video.

Not familiar with iDMSS. Is it functionally the same as the DMSS iOS app?

We've been recording 24/7/365 to Samsung micro SD cards in our 7 wifi cams for over 5 years and never experienced a failure. We've been using 256gb cards in our Reolinks cams and manage almost 96 hours at ~6100 kbps. More than enough time for our needs.

 

[bigredfish]

iDMSS is the older version

Current version is DMSS

 

[HomeWPoe]

DMSS works just fine for your requirements. I use it

Thanks for the reply! Good to hear. Just to confirm, when you receive an alert notification on your phone (in my case an iphone) are you able to view the video for that alert within a few seconds of receiving the notification on your phone using the DMSS app? If it matters we're recording continuously to micro SD cards.

 

[wittaj]

Not familiar with iDMSS. Is it functionally the same as the DMSS iOS app?

We've been recording 24/7/365 to Samsung micro SD cards in our 7 wifi cams for over 5 years and never experienced a failure. We've been using 256gb cards in our Reolinks cams and manage almost 96 hours hours at ~6100 kbps. More than enough time for our needs.

Yeah DMSS is what I meant LOL. I am used to the days the Dahua designated gDMSS for google/android and iDMSS for iOs.

Just because 24/7 recording worked with other brands doesn't mean it will work with Dahua. Simply sharing with you the experiences of many that have been there/done that with continuous recording on Dahua cams.

I am sure some have run fine without problems, but in my experience every Dahua OEM camera I have bugs out at some point and I know immediately that the card is full, and I log in and see the card is full. A simple reformat and the camera is back in business. Maybe it was full for a month before issues, or maybe it was a day, but it will go wonky at some point.

Or as @Teken stated in this post: "Dahua hardware simply implements a shit way of handling continuous recoding" ...

 

[mat200]

@mat200, surprised to hear you had to go hybrid to get the alert coverage you needed. Hope we're not asking for too much from one app. Time will tell I guess.

It's a question of work, and users .. easier for me to do it this way, and this way the various mobile users can "yell profanities" at the SaaS providers instead of me when some mobile os update changes things .. lol

 

[wittaj]

It's a question of work, and users .. easier for me to do it this way, and this way the various mobile users can "yell profanities" at the SaaS providers instead of me when some mobile os update changes things .. lol

You mean like this thread where DMSS updates stopped working...either because an update broke it or the P2P servers were down!

DMSS

Since the last update, push notifications stop coming through after a day or two. I have to click on the app, it's good for a day or 2 then the notifications stop again. It works on one phone fine and the second phone I have this issue.

ipcamtalk.com

 

[HomeWPoe]

Got our EmpireTech 1/1.8 4mp bullet cam (IPC-B54IR-ASE-3.6mm) up and running with the DMSS iOS app in our backyard yesterday. According to Andy it has the same sensor/optics/firmware as the turret version (IPC-T54IR-AS 3.6mm). Only difference is the bullet has one IR LED vs. two on the turret.

Very pleased to see the DMSS iOS app allowed immediate access to the alert video clips. It also kept a running log of alerts. Both capabilities were completely missing from the Reolink iOS app. However, so, so disappointed with the DMSS playback function---it was slow, erratic, and cumbersome--almost unusable at 8x (max). Playback in the Reolink iOS app is very stable, even at 16x (max).

Gotta say the 1/1.8 EmpireTech cam's night-vision is damn good. Our backyard only has small, downward facing 2w landscaping lights. It was enough lighting to provide good visual coverage of our entire backyard without the IR LED on (did notice motion coverage decreased without the IR LED active). If you turned off the IR LED on the RLC810a Reolink, all you could see were the landscaping lights!

The daytime resolution and general picture/color quality of the 4mp EmpireTech was a noticeable step down from a 8mp RLC810a Reolink that was mounted in the same location. I tried adjusting brightness, hue, saturation, etc. on the EmpireTech, but not a lot of improvement. Biggest disappointment was the EmpireTech's lack of daytime dynamic range (with WDR turned on and off). In the late afternoon as the sun went down, the shaded areas looked great, while some of the sunny areas were overexposed and totally washed out. In the morning, there was significant lens flare as the rising sun hit the camera lens from the side. Disappointing to see these issues in the EmpireTech. The Reolink had none of these issues.

The EmpireTech's nighttime motion detection was noticeably better than the Reolink. During the daytime the Reolink's human/vehicle/pet detection feature was reasonably accurate and reliable. Night-time bugs created a lot of false alerts on the Reolinks. The EmpireTech not so much. I adjusted the motion sensitivity on both cameras during testing.

For our needs, there's a lot of significant pros and cons going on here. I was so hoping the $170 1/1.8 4mp EmpireTech AND DMSS iOS app were going to be a clear winner vs. the $80 8mp RLC810/$100 8mp RLC811a Reolinks AND Reolink iOS app. Didn't quite work out that way. As an aside, have-to-say the RLC811a is an especially feature-rich cam for $100. Optical zoom, acceptable night-vision (with low/moderate ambient lighting) even with the IR LED/spotlight off, and outstanding 8mp/4k daytime picture quality.

As a homeowner, with no crime issues, that just wants to monitor their yard with 5-6 POE cams, POE switch, micro SD's, and a reasonably capable iOS app, there seems to be no clear path to happiness. Tough choices ahead.

 

[wittaj]

We tried to tell ya

As others have said, if all you really care about is looking around and monitor the yard, then go with a cheap cloud-based camera system that invests in the apps.

Unfortunately you will have to make a compromise somewhere or lower your expectations. My system alerts me of all activity I am concerned with on my property, so I don't really care about 16x playback as an example. But part of your issue with speed playback could be using the SD cards.

What Reolink makes up for in daytime quality (many will say they have the best daytime quality), they lose it at night time (missing body parts and complete blurs).

Did you try the other backlight features during the day? There is more than WDR.

You may not have crime issues now, but no place is immune. When that time comes, do you want video the police can use to help identify or only be able to tell them what time it happened?

Do keep in mind that as good as Empiretech cameras are, you are running on them on default/auto settings and while it gives a nice bright static image, we aren't taking still photos for a photo contest LOL. Most here care about a clean capture of a perp in motion to give the police.

You need faster shutters to freeze frame a perp in motion at night.

The faster the shutter, the darker the image (faster shutters need more light).

Most cameras may slow down the shutter to 1/3 or 1/12 and that is simply too slow to capture motion.

You need at least 1/60 or 1/120 shutter speed. Once you do that, the IR will be needed.

I guess your search for the unicorn continues LOL

 

[HomeWPoe]

@wittaj (and everyone else), as always, thanks for your replies.

I didn't run any of the cams in default/auto. I adjusted every possible default/preset and checked the results. Not trying to win a photo contest with the EmpireTech cam--lol! However, when 20-25% of your vid is unviewable due to sun/shade issues or lens flair (which is completely uncorrectable via firmware/software) . . . well, can't catch a perp if you can't see 'em.

Can you elaborate on the "backlight feature" you mentioned? Where/what is this setting on the EmpireTech?

Appreciate the info on getting clear night-time vids. After years of photography, I'm good on how shutter speeds, aperture, focal length, lighting and sensor (and old-school film) ISO ratings can play into static vs. dynamic situations.

Confident the SD cards have no throughput issues. I'm able to playback Main Stream vids at all speeds (up to 16x) with zero issues with the Reolink iOS app. The playback problem appears to be with the DMSS iOS app itself.

And, yes, I agree, unless I'm willing to go all-in with a VMS (or go cloud), I'm going to have to make some significant compromises. The only big surprise for me over the last few weeks is the lack of a quality iOS app (singular) for POE applications that provides functional realtime video alerts AND high-speed playback capability. The basic prerequisites. I can only assume the coding must be extremely difficult because such an app doesn't appear to exist. No doubt the demand (and monetary reward) is there. As for the cams, no big surprises. Choosing one is akin to choosing a digital DLSR---similar performance issues (and personal preferences) at play.

 

[wittaj]

Again you are thinking too logically lol.

As I have said, just because it works for one manufacturer doesn't mean it works for another...

As @Teken has said, the SD card recording process for Dahua is crap. Most use SD card as redundant recording and not as sole recording. As a result Dahua hasn't invested into that as say reolink has.

Heck, which browser you use dictates the speed you can transfer off the card (10mbps versus 100mbps)....so you don't think the whacked out programming in DMSS isn't the result of your issue trying to play off an SD card...

Downloading videos files directly from camera via web interface (using other than IE) seems to be capped at *TEN* Mbps

UPDATE: If you use Internet Explorer (with plug-in), you can download videos via the web interface at the full 100Mbps speed - note you can't go any faster because the NIC doesn't support GigE. Thanks @TheOtherMike for pointing that out on the data sheet (maybe for 2024, Dahua will go with...

ipcamtalk.com

had.

Even the codec you are using could be an issue. If you are using H265 try H264.


I guess it is time for you to give BI another try lol

As far as backlight, have you tried HLC, SSA, etc.

 

[steve1225]

I didn't run any of the cams in default/auto. I adjusted every possible default/preset and checked the results. Not trying to win a photo contest with the EmpireTech cam--lol! However, when 20-25% of your vid is unviewable due to sun/shade issues or lens flair (which is completely uncorrectable via firmware/software) . . . well, can't catch a perp if you can't see 'em.

Can You show 2-3 pictures how this Dahua and Reolink to which You compare are mounted?
Especially at day when lens flair is happening?

Plus screenshot how this lens flair is looking in video?

Plus screenshots from all camera image settings?