Newbie Request for Camera Recommendations (pretty detailed)

[lostinpangea]

Hello,

I'm a newbie, but I've been reading the forums and doing research for well over a month now, and I'm still stumped as to which security cameras to get and I'd really appreciate some advice.

Budget: about $200 per camera (just for the camera). Less is better, but I'm flexible if the value is there.
NVR: Already have a Synology NAS with enough licenses for Surveillance Station, so I intend to use that.
Network Cabling: I'll have a professional install the necessary cables. It will all be CAT6A (yes, I know it's overkill, but I like to future-proof) and I already have a PoE+ switch. All cable runs will be <200'.
Form factor: I'd like to keep the cameras as unobtrusive as possible for cosmetic reasons, so I'm thinking that the eyeball style is best.
Brand: was considering Dahua, but don't really care
Protection: need security for both day and night, as both times are equal risk

NOTE: If I missed a good candidate, please feel free to recommend a model not listed below.

Property:
A house on a 45'x140' lot.
Residential area of a large city.
Good neighborhood, and good neighbors, but not far from a bad neighborhood. Have been a lot of thefts from homes and cars lately, plus a few hold-up's at knife-point. These have happened both during the day and at night.


Front:
Faces a residential street. There are some street lights but the lighting isn't great. No sidewalks.
The front porch has a hanging light under the vestibule, and the doorway is about 3' in from the porch.
The driveway slopes from the street down to a basement-level garage. There is a side door at the bottom of the driveway to enter the basement.

Was thinking of two cameras:
One near the front door, outside of the vestibule and pointing in front of the vestibule and across the porch and front walk, out to the street. Was thinking of either the IPC-HDW5831R-ZE or IPC-HDW5231R-ZE.
One over the garage pointing across the driveway and front walk, out to the street. Was thinking either IPC-T5442TM-AS or IPC-HDW5231R-ZE.
The views from the two cameras would cross one another.
I already have a Ring doorbell cam, but I view that as a bonus rather than as a primary camera.


Side:
There is one entry door on one side of the property.
This area is almost pitch black at night.
The path between my house and the neighbor's house is about 8' wide and 60' long.
Would wall-mount the camera at the rear of the house and point it down the path to the front of the house.
Was thinking of either IPC-HDW5231R-ZE or IPC-HDW2231R-ZS or IPC-HDW4231EM-AS


Back yard:
There are fences and hedges enclosing the back yard.
There are two patio lights by the back door that keep that small area lit, but the rest of the yard is fairly dark at night (darker than the front, but brighter than the side).
No lane.
Would mount the camera at the corner of the house (close to the side camera), pointing across the back door and to cover the yard (approx 90+ degree view).
Was thinking of either IPC-T5442TM-AS or IPC-HDW5231R-ZE or IPC-HDW2231R-ZS or IPC-HDW4231EM-AS


All insight is greatly appreciated - thank you!!!

 

[SouthernYankee]

Pictures of the house, front and back, screen shot of google satellite view.

I would have two to three cameras at the front door, one ponting out, one pointing in and one at face level, 6-7 ft up.
On the garage, if you every park in the driveway, two cameras one on each side of the door, no higher than the top of the door.

Test the cameras placement, use a 5 gallon bucket with a 8-10 ft 2X4, place the camera on the 2x4 at the correct height and placement. Check the view.
Test that you can Id a person with the camera placement, have a friend with a hoodie, baseball cap and sunglass try to break into your front door. breakin to your car, if you can not easily identify him, then the cops can not ID him...
Test cameras at night.

camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3 do three cameras at a time.

I would buy one zoom starlight camera... IPC-HDW5231-ZE to start testing with.

 

[lostinpangea]

Thanks very much for the reply! I've attached some pictures. The red dots represent planned camera placements, but I'm open to other suggestions. I am a little concerned about the one by the garage due to potential blockage of the view by the bay window, and the potential lens flare caused by the coach lights.

Unfortunately, I can't do the testing as suggested. The installer is going to run all the cables and mount the cameras in a single day. So I really need to have the cameras in my hands and the locations determined as best as possible ahead of time, before the install.

I have tried the camera calculator tool - I didn't find it that helpful, but that may be because of my lack of skill using it. I'll attach an example of that, too.

Thank you!

 

[Walrus]

Move the garage camera closer to the left corner of the house. Put another one on the opposite side of the garage under the porch overhang.

 

[lostinpangea]

Move the garage camera closer to the left corner of the house. Put another one on the opposite side of the garage under the porch overhang.

Thanks for the ideas! Do you have a suggestion as to which model of camera for each location?

BTW - it's not visible in the picture, but there's an entrance door into the basement under the porch overhang.

 

[SouthernYankee]

I would place two cameras on the garage door, one on each side. Or one on the under the porch overhang. I would place a camera at the top inside of the front door alcove pointing back at the door, to monitor the package drops.

 

[Walrus]

What SouthernYankee said, start with one IPC-HDW5231R-ZE (if you want audio) or IPC-HDW2231R-ZS (no audio) and play with them, then go from there.
I went with several of the IPC-HDW2231R-ZS, as for us in Canada, with the exchange rate, it's quite a bit more for the 5231.

I started with one camera looking across my double driveway, and it wasn't enough coverage. You'd be missing what's happening under the camera.

 

[crw030]

test..test...test. Such a pretty house don't put unnecessary, sub-optimal holes in it!

While I agree with the 2nd camera on the garage, you need to get it up at night time with IR on and check for bad reflections from nearby surfaces. I also think if you test a camera at your rear yard location that little tree is going to light up brightly under IR and the rest the yard will be too dark for a usable image. I'd test it there and lower and near the door (possibly under the light but with a rain/sun shield top cover). More cameras will be required to do facial ID especially at night at the street. Those wide angle cameras can only provide a useful overview shot, but forget about getting a clear face beyond a few feet. Go back to the camera placement calculator from your bottom screenshot (looks like you might have 3.6mm lense selected?) and bring those camera cones closer until you achieve 100 ppf resolution on a 2MP camera to get an idea of what may be a reasonable distance for ID. Then try it again with a narrower focus lens option say 6mm or 8mm. If this is your first outing with security cameras consider a varifocal, that you can set to the precise field of view you need for your property and install location.

 

[lostinpangea]

I would place two cameras on the garage door, one on each side. Or one on the under the porch overhang. I would place a camera at the top inside of the front door alcove pointing back at the door, to monitor the package drops.

Where is the best place to put the camera for the left side (left when looking at it) of the garage relative to the coach light, so that it doesn't cause lens flare or other issues? Is it better to be above or below the light? Should I aim to be as far to the corner as possible or be just to the right of the light?

I'd love to put in a package-cam but can't seem to figure out a place to put it or a way to wire it. There are windows over and around the door and a light hanging from the ceiling. If pointing at the door, I could probably mount it, but no idea how to get the cable to it.

What SouthernYankee said, start with one IPC-HDW5231R-ZE (if you want audio) or IPC-HDW2231R-ZS (no audio) and play with them, then go from there.
I went with several of the IPC-HDW2231R-ZS, as for us in Canada, with the exchange rate, it's quite a bit more for the 5231.

Good to know about the practical difference between the IPC-HDW5231R-ZE and the IPC-HDW2231R-ZS is only the audio. I was wondering if the extra "smart" features were worth it.

So leaning towards the following:
Front to side of door: IPC-HDW5831R-ZE to allow for seeing some of the street traffic and "long distance"; I *think* the amount of light coming from the porch light will be enough to make this camera effective for close range at night, too. Thoughts?
Package-cam: IPC-HDW2231R-ZS (if I can find a way to mount it)
Garage: 2x IPC-HDW2231R-ZS or 2x IPC-T5442TM-AS (or one on one side and one on the other side?)
Side path: IPC-HDW2231R-ZS
Back yard: IPC-HDW2231R-ZS or IPC-T5442TM-AS (it's a fairly big area to cover, and fairly dark - do I need to sacrifice the eyeball style and move to a bullet?)

 

[lostinpangea]

test..test...test. Such a pretty house don't put unnecessary, sub-optimal holes in it!

Thank you! Testing is going to be almost impossible to do in advance of mounting it. It's just a restriction I have to deal with.

While I agree with the 2nd camera on the garage, you need to get it up at night time with IR on and check for bad reflections from nearby surfaces. I also think if you test a camera at your rear yard location that little tree is going to light up brightly under IR and the rest the yard will be too dark for a usable image. I'd test it there and lower and near the door (possibly under the light but with a rain/sun shield top cover). More cameras will be required to do facial ID especially at night at the street. Those wide angle cameras can only provide a useful overview shot, but forget about getting a clear face beyond a few feet. Go back to the camera placement calculator from your bottom screenshot (looks like you might have 3.6mm lense selected?) and bring those camera cones closer until you achieve 100 ppf resolution on a 2MP camera to get an idea of what may be a reasonable distance for ID. Then try it again with a narrower focus lens option say 6mm or 8mm. If this is your first outing with security cameras consider a varifocal, that you can set to the precise field of view you need for your property and install location.

Thanks for the idea re: the tree. I didn't think about that blowing out the picture.

I'll also play around with the camera calculator some more. I think I chose varifocus models for all of them. And I certainly agree with your suggestion to use varifocus. The only reason I wouldn't is if I needed higher MP in the eyeball style camera.

I only need facial ID at the front door. But I'd like to be able to recognize (DO"R"I) at at least 20' (preferably 40') in all other areas.

 

[Walrus]

The ones with Z in the part number are varifocal (eg IPC-HDW2231R-ZS).
The IPC-T5442TM-AS is not varifocal, you order it with a fixed lens (2.8mm, 3.6mm or 6mm). Unfortunately there currently isn't a varifocal model with that low light sensor size (1/1.8") in the turret shape. You'd have to get the bullet IPC-B5442-ZE if you want varifocal.

The 2.8mm will be wide angle (113deg) and zoomed out, not very good for facial recognition unless the person comes close to the camera.

The two IPC-HDW2231R-ZS I have pointed crossing my double driveway, are zoomed in to about 3.6mm. This gives each of them about 90deg view. Just as a car on the street is leaving the view on one cam, it's entering the view on the other cam. Now that I have had them a year and am satisfied with the view, I plan on replacing them with two IPC-T5442TM-AS with 3.6mm lens, to give me more detail. The 2231s will be moved to the back yard.

 

[Walrus]

Good to know about the practical difference between the IPC-HDW5231R-ZE and the IPC-HDW2231R-ZS is only the audio. I was wondering if the extra "smart" features were worth it.

If you were going to use Blue Iris, then the extra features aren't used, and the only benefit is audio. You mentioned using your Synology NAS with Surveillance Station, I have no idea how that works.

 

[crw030]

Thank you! Testing is going to be almost impossible to do in advance of mounting it. It's just a restriction I have to deal with.

Just curious what the restriction is you are referring to, even living in an HOA with strict rules about what I can and can't do to my property they would have to send me a notice warning me of a violation, and a temporary rock bucket + 2x4 test setup will be long gone by the time I received that warning. But holes in your gorgeous house would be permanent.

 

[lostinpangea]

There is no regulatory restriction - it's just that I need to get the cameras installed (even if not perfectly) within the next month and I wouldn't be able to do proper testing until next summer. We all have compromises we have to make; this is the one I have to make.

So, still hoping to find the best suggestions based on the above, to the extent possible without testing. Not idea, but it's the best I can do right now.