NVR/camera compatabilty issues

[Danny F. Kaye]

I have a Hikvision DS-7716N E4/16P NVR. Having an awful time trying to set it up with no background in IP tech. I realize now, after basically poking around in the dark that my presumption as to the ease of mating off-brand cameras with this NVR.

My goal was to conceal high resolution cameras within the casings of my front and back door intercoms. I found pinhole style cameras that I thought would work, simply because the POE RJ45 (CAT) connectors matched, not realizing compatibility issues were not limited to this.

I bought 2 ELP 1892's and 2 of a very similar type from Shenzhen Seelan&Hangin Electronics. Both are spec'd as ONVIF compatible, H264 and are 2MP. Both I'm able to get a picture using the Firefox browser.

I've followed some of the instructions fund in this forum for mating off-brand cameras, but without success. I've tried using the ONVIF Device Manager but I can't make heads or tails out of that.

My NVR has its own IP for mating with my router. It is 192.168.0.11...router being 192.168.0.1. The internal IP address for the NVR is the usual 192.168.254.1.

Using only one (of each brand) of the cameras I'd purchased in an effort to achieve compatibility, I changed one IP to 192.168.254.2 and 192.168.254.16 respectively and each port to 8000. Nothing!

I changed the ports back to their original 34567. Nothing!

Changed the ports to 80. Nothing!

Changed ports to 8899 as suggested by a person from SSHE. Nothing!

I've tried a number of things that seem to conform to some of the suggestions I've found on this site with negative success.

Pretty helpless now. Any suggestions?

 

[alastairstevenson]

I've tried using the ONVIF Device Manager but I can't make heads or tails out of that.

You will need to use the 'ONVIF port' as seen in the URL in the bottom of the 'Identification' page in ONVIF Device Manager for the camera.
You need to pick the channel on the NVR for the PoE port that you want to connect the camera to, note down the IP address, change the mode to 'manual' and 'ONVIF'.
Use the ONVIF port as shown by ONVIF Device Manager.
And, maybe while it's still on the LAN and you still have access to it, change the camera IP address to match the IP address you noted down from the NVR PoE port.
Connect the camera to the PoE port, and it should just work.

 

[Danny F. Kaye]

I've used an "IP Scanner" to verify the IP after having been changed to 192.168.254.2...thus conforming to one of the IPs for the NVR........and using this "IP Scanner" I've scanned for all the ports finding 80 8899 8000 (as I changed it from default 34567) and 34561. I've tried all of them with no results.

I'm very likely missing something in the use of the ONVIF Device Manager program, as all I'm getting is this: (see attached JPEG)



- - - Updated - - -

Forgot to mention "thanks" for taking the time to look at this.

 

[alastairstevenson]

ONVIF Device Manager will only talk to devices on the same network as the PC it is running on.
The 192.168.254.x network as used by the NVR PoE ports interface is a different network from the one that the NVR LAN port is on and not, by default, accessible from the LAN.
As an experiment - you could temporarily set your PC IP address to, say, 192.168.254.100, plug its ethernet cable into an unused PoE port, and see the camera that way on ONVIF Device Manager.

From your scanner result - it's quite likely (but I'm guessing) that 8899 is the 'ONVIF port' that you'd need to use in the NVR camera config values for the ONVIF model choice.
8899 is quite a common value for the ONVIF port in Chinese cameras (unless this is one you changed to).
By the way - it's best to leave ports at their default values - there isn't any reason to change them on the LAN. They don't clash with another device using the same port on a different IP address.

 

[Danny F. Kaye]

I'm becoming the embodiment of that saying, wrongly attributed to Einstein .......over & over again expecting a different result......
I think I understand the separation of the NVR PoE network from the LAN provided by my router and my computer and the NVRs connectivity to it. I have previously applied a static IP address in the 192.168.254.xxx range to my computer which allowed me to view the camera image via Firefox browser after having changed a pinhole camera to 192.168.254.2.

I followed the guidelines as you indicated....changing PC to 192.168.254.100, plugging its ethernet cable to the 1st of the 16 PoE inputs of my NVR, but still the results I'm getting from the ODM are completely unhelpful. I'm not sure that I'm inputting the right info, but have tried a number of different arrangements to no avail. Another screenshot:



Perhaps wrongly, I assumed your suggestion included leaving the camera plugged into the router, with 12V power added, a the same time one of the Ethernet cables from the PC went to the PoE input on the back of the NVR, and a second Ethernet cable from the PC remained plugged into the router, ....or I may have misunderstood what you intended.

 

[Danny F. Kaye]

Yikes.....after hours and hours and hours of toiling with this, somehow after disconnecting the PC from the NVR PoE input (as you suggested) and plugging the pinhole camera into the same input, using port 8899 and 192.168.254.2, I finally obtained results. The camera image appeared. My wife loves me again.

Here's the catch though: I noticed I had neglected to unplug the 12V power source from the camera. I unplugged it expecting the power to remain via the PoE input. Immediately the 2 (amber & green) LEDs at the plug input went dark and the camera image was lost.

Not sure what this implies. Any suggestions?

 

[Danny F. Kaye]

When I navigate to Camera - PoE information I get a bunch of red "x" overtop of each and every input indicator. I physically tried plugging the camera into a few other inputs to see if I'd get the LED lights ....but no.

 

[Danny F. Kaye]

Sorry to be piecemeal here but my camera arsenal does include one Hikvision bullet camera, the DS-2CD2032-1. I plugged that one in and the LEDs came on and I got a picture after a short wait. Revisited the PoE Information and found a checkmark instead of the red "x" on the graphic representing the input into which the Hik camera was connected.

Can this anomaly be corrected?

 

[alastairstevenson]

I finally obtained results. The camera image appeared. My wife loves me again.

Well done!
It looks like you've accidentally found the problem ...
Looking at the product description (assuming this is the one you've bought), there appears to be nothing that mentions that the camera can be powered using PoE.
unless you know differently. What made you believe it was a PoE camera?

On the face of it - you will need to supply 12v power to the camera, the NVR PoE ports will do nothing for it in terms of power.
http://www.elpcctv.com/1080p-hd-mini-pinhole-ip-network-camera-for-atm-p-63.html

 

[Danny F. Kaye]

Thanks to you!

I can't really put my finger on what brought about the success, because I believe I used all the numbers in my trial and error previously.

The only thing I remember as being different is the connection of my computer to the PoE input. I did not get an image through the NVR from the camera (while the camera was still plugged into the router) but only after I unplugged the computer from the NVR and used that same PoE input to once again plug in the camera did success arrive. Whichever way you slice it, I still owe that accomplishment to you sir!

"What made you believe it was a PoE camera?"

Therein lies a mystery solved.
A: Newbieness.

Not fully appreciating the variability in the world of IP, seeing your question, I fully admit to this preconception owing to a formally dominant analogue universe. Seeing the RJ45 I assumed PoE. Now I must find a way to rearrange the wiring so the power can be fed through the RJ45 connection instead of the power line.

In your experience, does that seem doable?

 

[alastairstevenson]

Now I must find a way to rearrange the wiring so the power can be fed through the RJ45 connection instead of the power line.
In your experience, does that seem doable?

No problem with doing that.
You can still take advantage of the PoE capabilities of the ports on the NVR by using an active PoE splitter on the end of the ethernet cable at the camera.
The existing ethernet cable plugs into the splitter, a short patch cable provides the onward connection to the camera, and the PoE splitter provides a 12v jack to power the camera.
Search your favourite online store for "poe active splitter 802.3af"
Make sure it's active, not passive.

 

[Danny F. Kaye]

Thank you very much for your guidance. Much appreciated!

 

[Danny F. Kaye]

Don't mean to be a bore, but I revisited the company's Aliexpress store and found what they advertised. I did that because I remembered subsequent to my last post that I knew I was looking for PoE at the time and I would have queried products using PoE as one of my search criteria. They still describe it as PoE:



It came in a box as depicted. Translation issues I guess.

 

[alastairstevenson]

You're not being a bore - that Aliexpress product info clearly states that the camera is a POE model.
As also suggests the chunky ethernet connector - it looks like it could be an in-line PoE convertor.
Does your camera have something the same size?
If not - maybe they shipped you the wrong option, and you have some redress with them.

Does the full listing for the product you boaght include a pic of the POE in-line adaptor like this one :
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/POE-mini-IP-Camera-1080p-3-6mm-Indoor-Audio-microphone-camera-HD-Network-Camera-Support-P2P/2141019_32637689284.html

 

[Danny F. Kaye]

Does the full listing for the product you boaght include a pic of the POE in-line adaptor like this one :

Yes it did and that is exactly what I received. 2 ELP pinhole cameras. The other two are similar with all the same IP and Port numbers, but don't indicate that they are the ELP brand, and are from a different retailer than "Alipu." Those came in a generic bos indicating basically that their contents are "HD video camera(s)." A small sticker with the voltage/amperage requirements and info pertaining to a smartphone monitoring App, provides the only clue to a possible brand: "Seelan IP Camera." As I mentioned in my initial post, the Aliexpress vender from which I purchased this, is named Shenzhen Seelan&Hangin Electronics.

Different from the ELP cameras, the other 2 "Seelan" ones have a much smaller housing around the RJ45 input.

 

[Danny F. Kaye]

More trial and error experimentation: With your help, the first success I had in obtaining an image onto the monitor hooked up to my NVR, was accomplished using one of the Seelan cameras (not the ELP). I might have confused that. The Seelans with the tell-tale smaller housing around their RJ45 inputs were the ones where the image stopped once I disconnected the outboard 12v power. As I'd been thus far unsuccessful at getting an image onto the NVR's monitor with the ELPs, I confirmed, as you seemed to be suggesting, that the larger housing is an indicator as to the ability of the ELPs to obtain power via the PoE inputs on my NVR. Originally the yellow and green LEDs at the top of the PoE inputs didn't flash in the absence of outside power supply, but then today, I had an Ethernet cable coming from my router to the 8th PoE input at the back of the NVR and another from the 15th input going to one of the ELP cameras on which I had changed its IP to 192.168.254.16. That arrangement produced an image on my computer via a CMS program but still failed to produce one on the NVRs monitor. It was at this time I pulled the power supply going to the ELP camera and voila: the LEDs continued flashing an the live image remained on my computer monitor.

Still no luck with the ELPs being able to produce an image through the NVR.

I don't know that I should wonder whether it's an indicator that I'm getting close, but the green and yellow LEDs at the Ethernet connection when the ELP is connected aren't completely dormant. They do flash, although intermittently. They start out sometimes appearing as though they're flashing at the frequency of what I've seen with the successful hookups, but then slow down after a couple of seconds, ....after which the frequency speeds up again .......and so on.

 

[alastairstevenson]

I had an Ethernet cable coming from my router to the 8th PoE input at the back of the NVR and another from the 15th input going to one of the ELP cameras on which I had changed its IP to 192.168.254.16. That arrangement produced an image on my computer via a CMS program but still failed to produce one on the NVRs monitor.

Did you set channel 15 on the NVR to 'Manual' instead of Plug and Play, change the IP address to match that of the camera, change the protocol to ONVIF - and set the port to the value that ONVIF Device Manager should show in the URL at the bottom of the 'Identification' page?

 

[Danny F. Kaye]

Did you set channel 15 on the NVR to 'Manual' instead of Plug and Play, change the IP address to match that of the camera, change the protocol to ONVIF - and set the port to the value that ONVIF Device Manager should show in the URL at the bottom of the 'Identification' page?

Sorry for the delay in responding. I did set it to "Manual"....both the camera and the channel were designated as 192.168.254.16...and the protocol changed to "ONVIF" on the NVR.

Still...and very difficult to comprehend the possibilities....I have had no luck with the ONVIF Device Manager. Apart from the correct action, I have tried everything conceivable and can't get to square one. It won't recognize my camera. I of course had the camera plugged into my router, changed the IP of my computer to 192.168.254.100, typed in dozens of versions of the IP string. It's a stubborn mule. Of course I know I must be missing something here.

The other thing on a slightly different layer: Those "Seelan" pinhole cams for which I am able to get an image on the NVR monitor, but lack the PoE ability and can only be powered by the outboard power supply (wall-wart)...Am I on the wrong track in thinking there might be a possibility of simply modifying the path of the required power, by hard-wiring/soldering power leads (that normally originate from the power connector) to then reroute through the Cat wiring? That is in the event I'm able to determine which are the power pins of the RJ45 Network Interface (ie: PoE inputs on the back of the NVR)....or is it more complicated than that as suggested by the presence of the larger PoE modules (housing a PCB) on the end of the ELP cameras? I know you made reference to a type of injector in an earlier post...I suppose that might be the only remedy other than having to feed a separate new power wire from a 12v source to the non-Hikvision or otherwise PoE equipped cameras.

 

[Danny F. Kaye]

I've been surfing all over the net in attempt to improve my understanding and try to determine what extras to buy.

Concerning the "PoE active splitter 802.3af," ...is that the same thing as a power injector? A seller on Ebay has a product which is described as "active," but I'm confused in that there seems to be no power going to it other than what it might obtain from a PoE switch, or in my case the Ethernet Interface connections on the back of the NVR, in which the RJ45 male is plugged into. If indeed the power is extracted from the Ethernet interface on the NVR with use of this particular device (see link), one might otherwise readily assume that in order for the device to be "active," there should be a female power connector. This one shows a male power connector:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Active-IEEE802-3af-100Mbps-RJ45-POE-Splitter-Injector-Power-over-Ethernet-Q7PI-/401105700787?hash=item5d63c347b3:g:MTYAAOSwFqJWlckR

The odd thing is that this add-on device is similar in size and character as the PoE female RJ45 end module on my ELP pinhole camera which I've confirmed is able to receive Power via the Hikvision NVR's Ethernet Interface. (though still no image on the NVR monitor from the ELP cameras)

Here's another device that seems to have a power source yet it claims to be "passive." I'd probably look for a multi unit like that so I can use non Hikvision cameras if the description of "passive" was inaccurate.

https://www.amazon.ca/WS-POE-4-48v48w-passive-802-3af-Ethernet-Injector/dp/B015S8397E/ref=sr_1_32?ie=UTF8&qid=1468982236&sr=8-32&keywords=802.3+af

Most importantly in my enormous lack of understanding of all this is my confusion as to what enables a Hikvision camera and the ELPs to obtain power via the Ehternet Interface inputs on my Hikvision NVR, where it can't be obtained by the other cameras without "active" PoE injection?

 

[Del Boy]

Active means it's 802.3af and 48V, passive means it's not real PoE complaint and could be anything.

You'll save alot of money and time simply returning (or using them elsewhere not on the NVR) those cameras and buying some Hikvision ones.

I say it time and time again... if you have a Hikvision NVR then stick with Hikvision cameras.