NVR to router without a cable?

[PaulOTron]

As I plan my new system one of my first decisions is where to place the NVR with a connection to my router.

I've decided the NVR will go in the closet of the bedroom adjacent to the router, [Edit for clarity: The two points are at far walls of adjacent rooms -- It's not back-to-back.] because that's where the attic crawlspace access is. POE cables for each camera will run up into the attic crawlspace. (Which means they don't have to be neat and tidy.)

I understand that wired is better for the cameras, but would it be a problem to connect the NVR to the router either with a WiFi bridge, or with a power line adapter? I'd like to avoid that one cable because it would have to run up the wall either inside or outside which would be both awkward and ugly.

A) I'm assuming this connection doesn't carry the main signals of all cameras simultaneously. That is, I assume it will either carry the main signal of one camera, or at most the substream of all of them. If I'm wrong and either solution may be unable to handle the bandwidth of up to 8 cameras, I'll break down and use an ugly, awkward cable.

B) For this pupose which would be better, a power line adapter or a WiFi bridge? Like most routers mine has WiFi. We're talking maybe 20 feet, with one drywall wall and one wooden closet door between the two points. Also, (and maybe this is important) if I use a power line adapter, I was hoping to us a single, slim extension cord under the closet door to power the NVR, and the power line adapter would plug into the same end of the small extension cord. (Later I may add a wall outlet into the closet, but not now.)

C) Any recommended models of WiFi bridges or power line adapters for this purpose?

 

[marku2]

Power line adapters work well as long as there on the same power circuit.
Your can add a switch in between too

 

[looney2ns]

I've decided the NVR will go in the closet of the bedroom adjacent to the router, because that's where the attic crawlspace access is. POE cables for each camera will run up into the attic crawlspace. (Which means they don't have to be neat and tidy.)

If you ever have to trouble shoot a problem, you will wish that they were neat and tidy.
Is there reason not to run the one cable inside the wall?
Or up into the attic, then down inside the wall to the router?

 

[PaulOTron]

If you ever have to trouble shoot a problem, you will wish that they were neat and tidy.

Let me correct that: It'll be organized, but not "attractive". That closet and the crawlspace access is dead-center in my house, so there will be branches from that center point to each camera like a spider web. No chance of being confused about which cable is which. (I'll label each port and each cable at the NVR.)

Is there reason not to run the one cable inside the wall?
Or up into the attic, then down inside the wall to the router?

If there wasn't a reason, I wouldn't have posted. But so you understand: A) I've never done such a thing but I'd be willing to try if it seemed feasible. B) I assume when this is done, a cable or conduit is dropped in from above. The attic crawlspace is under a peak roof, with zero headroom at the outside of the house and the router is at an outside corner of the house. This means I would have to crawl through fiberglass and I still don't know for sure that any portion of the wall between studs isn't blocked off. Could it be done? Sure. Will I do it? Nope, not worth it. If no power line adapter or WiFi bridge could work, I'll still run a cable but it won't go through the wall, but either inside or outside.

Power line adapters work well as long as there on the same power circuit.

I just confirmed they're not on the same circuit, but from what I hear they can work anyway. Will probably try it.

Your can add a switch in between too

I'm going to show my ignorance and ask: "Um whut?" What kind of switch are you referring to that would negate the necessity of a cable from NVR to router?

 

[Enrique]

I've decided the NVR will go in the closet of the bedroom adjacent to the router,

Punch a hole through the wall with a screw driver and hammer, jam an ethernet wire through it and be done with the problem.

 

[PaulOTron]

Punch a hole through the wall with a screw driver and hammer, jam an ethernet wire through it and be done with the problem.

No thanks. And just so YOU know why: 1) I'm gonna sell this house some day. 2) That would still require running the cable along the wall, over a bedroom entry door and into said closet.

I gotta say it's exhausting that in my experience on ALL internet forums, the response to a question is so often that very premise of the question is flawed. Folks, if I have to run a cable, I know my home's layout and I know how I would do it if necessary. I prefer to avoid the cable.

My first question remains unanswered: Is either "no cable" solution from NVR to router viable? Or, is there too much throughput if there are 8 cameras? (i.e. Am I correct that it doesn't ever have to handle the main signal from all 8 cams simultaneously?)

My second question is still unanswered: WiFi bridge versus Powerline adapter? (Assuming both work.)

My third question is still unanswered: Any recommended models of either WiFi bridge or Powerline adapter? (Or is any major brand good enough?)

 

[Enrique]

... And just so YOU know why: 1) I'm gonna sell this house some day....

And just so YOU know that god made a product called spackle that can be used to fix up a hole in the wall. Not sure why we're yelling YOU but anyway. I'm just trying to tell you that in my experience, a hammer can solve a lot of problems in a much cheaper manner than alternatives with much better results. If you can't get a wire to the closet, that is not what I inferred from your post.

Using things like wifi and ethernet over electric should only be used as a last resort.

 

[SantiagoDraco]

Well, this is essentially how my house is setup now. I'm running a Netgear Orbi setup where the "satellites" each have a dedicated backhaul wireless channel to the main router/hub Orbi. The connection is 1.7GBps so it's very fast and I stream tons of data across this without issues. Each satellite has 4 LAN ports so essentially you could connect your NVR to a satellite located at the NVR and then use the Orbi hub/router as a new router (it will replace your old one).

Mine works great and I would recommend it to anyone looking to connect wired devices in remote locations in a home where they cannot run wires. If I was wired I'd not be using this solution however as being wireless it's obviously more susceptible to problems with the connections but since the backhaul channels are point to point dedicated they don't experience the kinds of WiFi issues devices do when connecting (since they connect to different radios).

 

[SantiagoDraco]

Careful, you may not be experiencing issues but doesn't mean someone else won't with the exact same setup. These devices are called backhauls but are no different than your wifi router. Most of them are actually using standard laptop wifi cards. Wireless is susceptible to interference whether it is point to point or point to multipoint. Your neighbors hardware that uses the same frequencies does not magically avoid your house because it sees that they have been configured as point to point, which btw is just a simple code in the firmware allowing only 1 device to register. The same hardware could be used for point to multipoint if it was written to do so.

Wireless has many variables, interference, house construction, etc. It can be a great solution in the right hands. In the wrong hands it's a nightmare.

I never said it would work perfect for everyone I stated how it works for me... along with saying if I could go wired here I would. The same can be said for wired... if you try to do it yourself and don't do it properly (bad connector installs, overly long runs with the wrong cable type, etc) you can also run into issues.

The OP asked for a solution that would work without wires, I provided one suggestion along with my experiences, along with the requisite "disclaimer". Not sure why I need to be "careful".

Note:
Btw, the Orbi's backhaul is not prone to the contention issues you are alluding to as they use higher channels than normal 5ghz bands used by standard WiFi radios (36-48). Orbi uses 158ish I believe. A traditional WiFi bridge on the other hand will use standard channels and as such would have more potential channel conflicts than the Orbi.

 

[SantiagoDraco]

Wow I needed to do edits on that last response... too many hours working on projects today...brain has turned to mush

 

[PaulOTron]

Not sure why we're yelling YOU but anyway.

My apologies. You were the second person whose reply I interpreted to suggest that I shouldn't be asking the question I was asking. (See earlier parts of the thread.) You caught the brunt of frustration, some of which you had no part in.

I find that on the internet it often goes like this:

Original poster: "How can I do XYZ?"
Response: "Maybe you shouldn't be doing XYZ."
Original poster: "Okay but I have reasons. Here's the short version of my reasons."
Response: "Your reasons don't seem good enough to me."
Original poster: "Okay, here are the details of my situation and why I decided to do XYZ. Now that I've fully justified myself, can we address my question?"

I get it though... I am indeed doing something which one would generally avoid. Wire is preferred of course, and cheaper. In this case I'll only do it if necessary. (Which is what I said in my OP.)

 

[fenderman]

That is because it is...high a low voltage cable installer and for 150 or so you will have a cable inside your walls run perfectly...no hassles...
That said
in your case if the cameras are hard wired to the NVR then the only time data will pass to the router is when you view it locally or remotely...so it should work ok using wifi...problem with power line is that you cannot use surge protection......

 

[marku2]

Let me correct that: It'll be organized, but not "attractive". That closet and the crawlspace access is dead-center in my house, so there will be branches from that center point to each camera like a spider web. No chance of being confused about which cable is which. (I'll label each port and each cable at the NVR.)



If there wasn't a reason, I wouldn't have posted. But so you understand: A) I've never done such a thing but I'd be willing to try if it seemed feasible. B) I assume when this is done, a cable or conduit is dropped in from above. The attic crawlspace is under a peak roof, with zero headroom at the outside of the house and the router is at an outside corner of the house. This means I would have to crawl through fiberglass and I still don't know for sure that any portion of the wall between studs isn't blocked off. Could it be done? Sure. Will I do it? Nope, not worth it. If no power line adapter or WiFi bridge could work, I'll still run a cable but it won't go through the wall, but either inside or outside.



I just confirmed they're not on the same circuit, but from what I hear they can work anyway. Will probably try it.



I'm going to show my ignorance and ask: "Um whut?" What kind of switch are you referring to that would negate the necessity of a cable from NVR to router?

Two Poe switch’s cameras then run into the power line
And upstairs hook up into another power line with a switch so the three NVRs can talk back to the router

 

[marku2]

And just so YOU know that god made a product called spackle that can be used to fix up a hole in the wall. Not sure why we're yelling YOU but anyway. I'm just trying to tell you that in my experience, a hammer can solve a lot of problems in a much cheaper manner than alternatives with much better results. If you can't get a wire to the closet, that is not what I inferred from your post.

Using things like wifi and ethernet over electric should only be used as a last resort.

Why would a power line if used correctly be a last resort?
I get gigabit speed out of it

 

[fenderman]

Why would a power line if used correctly be a last resort?
I get gigabit speed out of it

because it is not 100 percent...and you cannot use surge protection...pay a few bux more and have a professional run cable..

 

[marku2]

because it is not 100 percent...and you cannot use surge protection...pay a few bux more and have a professional run cable..

True it’s not 100% but it’s good technology 99.5% I’m exploring it’s usefulness in setting up a branch network
it’s easy to run the cable for me
But the last 6mths all of those 7 cameras on that branch have never faulted and viewing them on the blue iris rig
And the hikvision rig and iPads
Yes wifi is completely crap

 

[PaulOTron]

in your case if the cameras are hard wired to the NVR then the only time data will pass to the router is when you view it locally or remotely...so it should work ok using wifi...problem with power line is that you cannot use surge protection.

Thank you. My takeaway is this:

Will try a pair of wifi bridges first (ensuring they're outside the frequency range of my router.) If that doesn't work I'll try a pair of powerline adapters. (Noting I can't have surge protection.) In both cases I understand brands and models aren't too important.

And if neither solution works... Cable.

Or I'll just sledgehammer the whole wall and create one big room! (Kidding.)

 

[fenderman]

Thank you. My takeaway is this:

Will try a pair of wifi bridges first (ensuring they're outside the frequency range of my router.) If that doesn't work I'll try a pair of powerline adapters. (Noting I can't have surge protection.) In both cases I understand brands and models aren't too important.

And if neither solution works... Cable.

Or I'll just sledgehammer the whole wall and create one big room! (Kidding.)

you dont need a pair of bridges...just buy a single device that can act as a wifi bridge.

 

[SantiagoDraco]

The FCC regulates what frequencies are reserved and for what purposes. By law Orbi cannot invent channels to use at their own discretion. When they advertise 3 bands it's a bit misleading because they are using the 2.4 band and 2 parts of the 5 Gig band which everybody and their brother is doing these days. Channels 149-161 are just the upper band of the 5 ghz spectrum. Interference is still a possibility. Not saying it will be, but it can be. Depends on your neighborhood.

Agreed. My point is simply that from a WiFi contention perspective (ie lots of "WiFi" devices around" the backhaul itself is less prone to problems than devices using the 2.4/5ghz channels would be as it's not using the "common" channels.

 

[SantiagoDraco]

Thank you. My takeaway is this:

Will try a pair of wifi bridges first (ensuring they're outside the frequency range of my router.) If that doesn't work I'll try a pair of powerline adapters. (Noting I can't have surge protection.) In both cases I understand brands and models aren't too important.

And if neither solution works... Cable.

Or I'll just sledgehammer the whole wall and create one big room! (Kidding.)

If your wall are smooth and not textured then recovery would be easy down the road On the other hand I did this same thing and what I did was punch a small hole on each side and install RJ45 wall plates on each side of the wall. Left it there when I moved and never heard a peep.