One more "New to This" thread

[Flyerfan017]

First i want to thank everyone for the information already provided in the Wiki's and threads. I learned things i didnt even thought i needed to know. That doesnt seem to stop as i keep reading different threads, although it also creates more questions. I dont typically post a lot on user Forums but i wanted to post here to thank everyone for this wealth of knowledge and clarify a few things for me to make sure i do this right this time.

My first security camera introduction was buying a Reolink 4K system with prebuilt DVR. Within the first year two of the waterproof bullet cameras broke because of water getting into the housing. I live in the PNW so i dont have any extreme weather but we do have 4 seasons. It was enough for me to look elsewhere, which is when i found this forum. Like many others, i wish i found it before Reolink. With the help of this forum i am now more knowledgeable to build a system that i will be happy with and my parents and brother eventually as they are building houses close to where i live and will want the same typical setup. So i get to be their Guiney pig and their tech support when something needs fixed.

My setup will have between 7-8 cameras initially and maybe a few more after discovery. They will be managed through BI on a Dell Optiplex (thanks to the wiki). I had always thought to buy all the cameras and set them up and make them work based on the locations. it was clarifying to read about getting a camera to test out focal lens and positions.

My approach is to purchase a IPC-5442T-ZE 4MP Vari-focal Eyeball Starlight camera and use that in different spots to see what fixed focal length i need/want at each location. Then buy those specific MM lens cameras to match. I also want to try out the IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M "boobie" 3.6MM lens camera for side of the house to catch both directions.

I am still trying to wrap my head around differences on picking IR vs LED. What conditions are optimal for each?

Some example conditions i have to choose from:
1. Driveway with a motion detection light
2. Side of house with low light
3. Back patio that has ambient light from kitchen and family room when we are awake but backyard string and patio lights that turn on when we let the dogs outside.

From what i know IR is in B/W but provides essentially artificial light in low light conditions. LED provides light to make a color at night scenario, but does the LED then have to stay on the whole time or can it be configured to be active on motion? Does it then act like a mini spot light?

So for this is what i am looking to setup:

PC: Dell Optiplex i5-8500, 16gb DDR4, 256GB SSD, W10P, 4TB Purple HDD
Software: Blue Iris
Cameras: (havent bought these yet, but did send Andy a message)
IPC-5442T-ZE 4MP Vari-focal Starlight
IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M 3.6MM
Will add 5-6 more depending on coverage, fixed lenses and understanding IR vs LED for specific locations.

I already have a managed POE+ switch and wont bore you with my network and access point setups.

i think i have made this post longer than i intended and if i missed anything i should have mentioned please ask. I appreciate everyone's time to read this.

 

[SouthernYankee]

Congratulations, You are off to a very good start. You have my three main points under control.

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Doing it right the first time will save you money.
Test do not guess

 

[mat200]

First i want to thank everyone for the information already provided in the Wiki's and threads. I learned things i didnt even thought i needed to know. That doesnt seem to stop as i keep reading different threads, although it also creates more questions. I dont typically post a lot on user Forums but i wanted to post here to thank everyone for this wealth of knowledge and clarify a few things for me to make sure i do this right this time.

My first security camera introduction was buying a Reolink 4K system with prebuilt DVR. Within the first year two of the waterproof bullet cameras broke because of water getting into the housing. I live in the PNW so i dont have any extreme weather but we do have 4 seasons. It was enough for me to look elsewhere, which is when i found this forum. Like many others, i wish i found it before Reolink. With the help of this forum i am now more knowledgeable to build a system that i will be happy with and my parents and brother eventually as they are building houses close to where i live and will want the same typical setup. So i get to be their Guiney pig and their tech support when something needs fixed.

My setup will have between 7-8 cameras initially and maybe a few more after discovery. They will be managed through BI on a Dell Optiplex (thanks to the wiki). I had always thought to buy all the cameras and set them up and make them work based on the locations. it was clarifying to read about getting a camera to test out focal lens and positions.

My approach is to purchase a IPC-5442T-ZE 4MP Vari-focal Eyeball Starlight camera and use that in different spots to see what fixed focal length i need/want at each location. Then buy those specific MM lens cameras to match. I also want to try out the IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M "boobie" 3.6MM lens camera for side of the house to catch both directions.

I am still trying to wrap my head around differences on picking IR vs LED. What conditions are optimal for each?

Some example conditions i have to choose from:
1. Driveway with a motion detection light
2. Side of house with low light
3. Back patio that has ambient light from kitchen and family room when we are awake but backyard string and patio lights that turn on when we let the dogs outside.

From what i know IR is in B/W but provides essentially artificial light in low light conditions. LED provides light to make a color at night scenario, but does the LED then have to stay on the whole time or can it be configured to be active on motion? Does it then act like a mini spot light?

So for this is what i am looking to setup:

PC: Dell Optiplex i5-8500, 16gb DDR4, 256GB SSD, W10P, 4TB Purple HDD
Software: Blue Iris
Cameras: (havent bought these yet, but did send Andy a message)
IPC-5442T-ZE 4MP Vari-focal Starlight
IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M 3.6MM
Will add 5-6 more depending on coverage, fixed lenses and understanding IR vs LED for specific locations.

I already have a managed POE+ switch and wont bore you with my network and access point setups.

i think i have made this post longer than i intended and if i missed anything i should have mentioned please ask. I appreciate everyone's time to read this.

Welcome @Flyerfan017

Feel free to share your test results .. most people do not test enough and just place cameras hoping they have good positions setup.
( also remember the di-electric gel and drip loops / junction boxes )

 

[Flyerfan017]

Congratulations, You are off to a very good start. You have my three main points under control.

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Doing it right the first time will save you money.
Test do not guess

Thank you, but i cant take much credit for it as i would not have taken that approach had it not been for this forum, which included some of your posts.

 

[Flyerfan017]

Welcome @Flyerfan017

Feel free to share your test results .. most people do not test enough and just place cameras hoping they have good positions setup.
( also remember the di-electric gel and drip loops / junction boxes )

Thank you for the welcome.

When i get everything all setup i will look to share my results. When that is will depend when i get everything in and ready to install teamed up with when the weather is clear enough for me to set it up. It was said to me recently that here in the PNW you dont pick the day you want to do something, you pick the task and wait for the day (or hour) you have an opening.

Thanks for the heads up on the drip loops/junction boxes. I hadnt thought of that, but definitely makes sense.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Don't feel too bad about the Reolink. Most us have made that kind of mistake when starting out.

I use IR, usually auxiliary IR to get them slightly away from the cameras, rather than white light. To me white light LEDs that are on the camera, even if they are triggered, really are more of a gimmick than anything else. It takes a lot of light to maintain full color at night, unless you're willing to spend thousands per camera, and a couple of small LEDs just won't do that. To top it all off, the bad guys normally ignore motion activated lights anyway.

Testing with a varifocal is the way to go without a doubt. Just don't test once though. Do multiple tests on clear, moon lit, nights and on dark, overcast, nights. The differences will surprise you. I have a 5442T-AS that can stay in color easily on a moon lit night, but the moon isn't full all that often so it stays in B&W all the time. In my case I don't even use the IR on the camera or auxiliary IR for it. What I'm getting at is that fine tuning to get clear, sharp, video takes some time and testing.

 

[Flyerfan017]

Don't feel too bad about the Reolink. Most us have made that kind of mistake when starting out.

I use IR, usually auxiliary IR to get them slightly away from the cameras, rather than white light. To me white light LEDs that are on the camera, even if they are triggered, really are more of a gimmick than anything else. It takes a lot of light to maintain full color at night, unless you're willing to spend thousands per camera, and a couple of small LEDs just won't do that. To top it all off, the bad guys normally ignore motion activated lights anyway.

Testing with a varifocal is the way to go without a doubt. Just don't test once though. Do multiple tests on clear, moon lit, nights and on dark, overcast, nights. The differences will surprise you. I have a 5442T-AS that can stay in color easily on a moon lit night, but the moon isn't full all that often so it stays in B&W all the time. In my case I don't even use the IR on the camera or auxiliary IR for it. What I'm getting at is that fine tuning to get clear, sharp, video takes some time and testing.

The way i look at it is Reolink brought me here so it couldnt have been to bad a decision, just costly.

Thanks for the IR vs LED breakdown. That's pretty much what i was thinking myself. I prefer IR but wasnt sure if i was missing something or if there are specific use cases where it performs better.

That's a great point that i plan to incorporate with testing. Not all conditions provide the same results. The more information you have the better your decision.

 

[wittaj]

I have 33,000 lumen radiating off my house and have enough light at this location that the little LED white light on the camera didn’t make a difference. So with this 1/120 shutter speed, I wanted to see if the camera could perform with only the white light from the camera and the flood lights turned off. As you can see from this video, it never recognized me at these settings. You would need to run 1/80 shutter with just the white light to be able to start to make a person out, but the image is way too dark. But if I run a slower shutter to make the image brighter, then I get blur.

The average Joe will not spend the time to calibrate and will just leave the settings on auto and love the great still image they get and then just accept a blur/ghost motion at night. When do we need these to perform - at night!

Keep in mind that with the shutter at auto, it is a nice bright image and looks like noon at midnight, but motion was a blur...once I dial the camera in to actually be usable, you see the limitations...

https://ipcamtalk.com/data/video/77/77700-cde61f6b1c11ec86c9d2aa035a02742b.mp4

 

[sebastiantombs]

Another advantage of auxiliary IR is that you can light a large area fairly easily. I have one that lights up my back yard, say about 250x250 feet. Doing that with white light, even LEDs, would make the place look like a ball park with a game in progress.

 

[Flyerfan017]

I have 33,000 lumen radiating off my house and have enough light at this location that the little LED white light on the camera didn’t make a difference. So with this 1/120 shutter speed, I wanted to see if the camera could perform with only the white light from the camera and the flood lights turned off. As you can see from this video, it never recognized me at these settings. You would need to run 1/80 shutter with just the white light to be able to start to make a person out, but the image is way too dark. But if I run a slower shutter to make the image brighter, then I get blur.

The average Joe will not spend the time to calibrate and will just leave the settings on auto and love the great still image they get and then just accept a blur/ghost motion at night. When do we need these to perform - at night!

Keep in mind that with the shutter at auto, it is a nice bright image and looks like noon at midnight, but motion was a blur...once I dial the camera in to actually be usable, you see the limitations...

https://ipcamtalk.com/data/video/77/77700-cde61f6b1c11ec86c9d2aa035a02742b.mp4

Thank you for the tip.

Honestly that is one thing that drew me to this forum and using a system like BI, is the ability to have that custom control of the camera's. I learned the kit's dont allow you to have that ability so i wasnt going down that route again. I plan on using a lot of the resources already defined here at the site for configuration as a template to allow me to understand the differences in the configuration output in combination with the environment influences.

 

[Flyerfan017]

Another advantage of auxiliary IR is that you can light a large area fairly easily. I have one that lights up my back yard, say about 250x250 feet. Doing that with white light, even LEDs, would make the place look like a ball park with a game in progress.

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense to have an aux IR light separate from the camera to provide the appropriate amount of light to get the best effect for the camera exposure. I assume you want to place the IR facing the coverage area but not within the lens scope to eliminate any star effects the camera will pick up?

 

[sebastiantombs]

Yes, I have them mounted a foot, or maybe a little more, to one side or the other, and pointed to illuminate the area I'm most interested in. No artifacts in the lens or video and no bugs swarming around the lens in the summer.