Options for a multi-purpose always on machine

[SouthernYankee]

list what software you plan on running on the computer, in detail. List what you think your system will be, memory, cpu, number of disks and storage, graphic processor....... List the number and models Mega pixels and FPS. of your cameras ?

8 GB memory is very small, i would recommend a minimum 16 GB on at least two memory cards.

 

[bp2008]

Oh...ok. I was just looking at a 7th gen core i5 with 4 cores and 8gb ram. Not sure now what I need to look for. In terms of the NAS am I better off just using separate hardware for that requirement and then finding a suitably powered machine for BI + VPN and the Unifi controller?

Depends really on how many disks you want to use. I wouldn't use Windows as the OS for a NAS where I wanted to use any kind of RAID more complicated than a simple mirror for two disks.

The VPN server and Unifi controller won't really use much resources. The VPN might use one CPU core a fair amount while you are using the VPN, but it shouldn't be a big problem. Hopefully the hardware accelerated encryption functions in modern CPUs are working

I'd go with at least a 4-core i7 for your purposes. The hyperthreading will help keep CPU usage under control during peak loads. But really we need more information about your planned cameras like SouthernYankee said. And also 16 GB of RAM would be a good starting point.

 

[freddyq]

list what software you plan on running on the computer, in detail. List what you think your system will be, memory, cpu, number of disks and storage, graphic processor....... List the number and models Mega pixels and FPS. of your cameras ?

8 GB memory is very small, i would recommend a minimum 16 GB on at least two memory cards.

OK, I'll give you as much detail as I can...

Software I currently plan to run: Windows 10, BlueIris, UniFi Network Controller, a VPN software like ExpressVPN, Plex (I'm assuming this is what I'd use for the media server), a node.js server (Smartthings and Google Assistant related)

System: I started looking into some systems off the back of the post I linked to earlier and the type of spec which I started settling on was a Dell Optiplex with 7th gen core i5, 3.40GHz, 8GB RAM, 128GB HDD, integrated graphics card. With a system like this I'd be expecting to use an additional internal or external HDD to store camera footage.

Cameras: 1 x Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS (4MP), 2 x Dahua IPC-HFW5442E-ZE (4MP). I expect to add at least one more of these to my setup. Again, I need to update my research but from previous digging through posts on this forum you can assume the main stream of the cameras would be set at 1080p resolution in H.265, 20fps, CBR 4096 bitrate. I'd like to be able to store 2 weeks of history per camera as a minimum, 1 month would be best if practical.

Hopefully that provides the detail you were after...thanks!

 

[SouthernYankee]

Go with 16 GB RAM. DO NOT use an external harddrive, external harddrive are OK for file writes and file reads. BUT not for continuous parallel record writes

Assuming 4 cameras at 4MP at 15 FPS. I recommend recording at the cameras normal resolution. For a security application 15 FPS is more than enough. On a continuous record (recommended) a single 4MP camera will uses about 2GB/HOUR. SO 4 cameras x 2 GB/hour x 24 hours x 31 days an 8 TB drive would be more than enough storage and allow for growth.

Look at used business computers on EBAY. Like an HP EliteDesk, get it with a case to put in internal drives


I strongly recommend AGAINST using a paid for VPN service, it is a waste of money and a security risk .

====================================

My general VPN post
There are two types of VPN, do not get them confused.
The type depends on where the traffic conversation (traffic) originates

1) origination: local home network, destination the internet.
This type of VPN is purpose to hides your activity from the internet, it is outbound, it normally costs a monthly fee to use. Direction is from your home PC to the internet, going to your bank, google, porn sites,,,, this not what you want. This VPN uses a VPN server that is in the middle of your communications.

2) Origination: the internet world wide web, destination: your home network.
This VPN type is used to provide a secure connection onto your local network, in bound to you local home network, from your office computer, your cell phone in your car, tablet at the coffee shop.. This is what you want, it does not have a monthly fee and is normally completely free. OpenVPN is this type of VPN.

If you home internet provider is a cellular network, then DDNS (dynamic Domain Name System) may not work, the DDNS is needed for most Inbound VPN services (OpenVpn) to get your home IP address (it is not static) so OpenVPN may not work for you.

A video on the paid VPN.
------------------------------------------------------
Hacked VPNs

Report: No-Log VPNs Reveal Users' Personal Data and Logs

A group of free VPN (virtual private network) apps left their server completely open and accessible, exposing private user data for anyone to see. This lack of basic security

www.vpnmentor.com

Naked Security – Sophos News

nakedsecurity.sophos.com

-----------------------------------------------------

 

[bp2008]

Cameras: 1 x Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS (4MP), 2 x Dahua IPC-HFW5442E-ZE (4MP). I expect to add at least one more of these to my setup. Again, I need to update my research but from previous digging through posts on this forum you can assume the main stream of the cameras would be set at 1080p resolution in H.265, 20fps, CBR 4096 bitrate. I'd like to be able to store 2 weeks of history per camera as a minimum, 1 month would be best if practical.

I'd run the cams at native resolution and just increase the bit rate to make up for it. You can also use VBR encoding and set the quality less than maximum and it might reduce the bit rate significantly when nothing is going on, allowing you to store more video in the same amount of space. But it WILL be lower quality video if the bit rate is lower, mainly noticeable if you digitally zoom in a lot.

Anyway to calculate disk space required, you just go to google and multiply the bit rate times the amount of time you need to store it.

Here's the calculation for 4 cameras at 4 Mbps each:
4 * 4 Mbps * 30 days = 5.184 terabytes

Here's the calculation for 4 cameras at 6 Mbps each:
4 * 6 Mbps * 30 days = 7.776 terabytes

Blue Iris also records sub streams if you use them (you should), so you should add the sub stream bit rate to the main stream bit rate when calculating. The sub stream should be less than 1 Mbps typically.

Ideally the drive you put Blue Iris recordings on should only be used for Blue Iris recordings. Leave some of the disk's usable capacity free when you configure recording in Blue Iris. I leave about 50 GB free on my BI box that does continuous recordings, and I limit each clip to 1 hour so the file sizes don't get too large, and I don't have any problems. Note that the storage capacity units used in Blue Iris and in Windows are a little different, so to see how much free space you have unallocated, you may need to look at the Blue Iris Status window > Clip storage tab.

 

[bp2008]

An i5 (3rd generation or newer, not a reduced-power model) would be fine for the Blue Iris load, probably even if you didn't use sub streams. Running other software on the same system is asking for trouble which is why I recommend either running BI on a separate box or using a more powerful CPU with more memory. E.g. at least an i7 3rd gen and 16 GB of RAM. i7-4790 boxes aren't too expensive on ebay in the USA but they usually don't support more than 1 or 2 hard drives, so that can be an issue.

 

[freddyq]

Wow OK thanks for all that insight!

This topic is at risk of going off on a tangent if I ask too much on the VPN stuff (and on my to do list is the VPN primer post on this forum) and I must admit I didn't know about the two different types but just the one question @SouthernYankee - that second type of VPN, I presume that also protects my home network and anything connected to it from outside attack/hack? That's my primary aim for the VPN because I have nightmares of my network being compromised. The secondary use is being able to access my home network securely from outside.

Right, back to the PC and from what you're both saying, it seems 8TB+ is what I need to look for in terms of HDD size for the camera recordings. But I think I have a fundamental decision to make and that's whether I have two separate machines or one. If one, then I'm looking for a 3rd gen or later i7 with 16GB RAM and space for at least 2 internal drives. I can then put an 8TB+ drive in for BI and use whatever internal HDD comes with it for the rest of my use-cases. However, this may be tricky to find and/or expensive if I do find it. If two machines, then the spec of the BI machine seems clear to me and for the VPN and other stuff I could probably use a mini PC (?) so it's a more simple and straightforward plan. Problem with this is that involves a second machine which ideally I wanted to avoid, two machines may consume more power than the one and I'd need to work out how I connect the second monitor from my existing dual monitor setup to two machines.

I should probably have a look see if I can find machines for the first option and how much they cost (I'm in the UK). That might help decide but if you guys have any other pointers that might help me decide please do let me know.

 

[bp2008]

@freddyq Adding a VPN server doesn't automatically make your network more secure. The thing that makes your network more secure is making sure that VPN server is the only service reachable from the internet. That means turning off UPnP (and NAT-PMP if your router has that option), and not forwarding any ports except for the one that the VPN server listens on. In many cases people use their router's built-in VPN server and therefore don't need to forward any ports at all.


Yeah being in the UK means you will have different availability of used/refurbished PCs than I do in the USA.

Like here in the USA I could find this 4th gen i5 box for around $105 USD after taxes. This is a good value right now. Newer and higher spec machines than this are still cheap compared to buying new, but the cost goes up quickly.



Intel basically skipped 5th generation, so one next step up would be a 6th generation i5, but the price is nearly doubled, at close to $190 USD. All for H.265 hardware acceleration support and otherwise a negligible difference in performance compared to the 4th gen above. This would not be worth the increased price in my opinion. Not even close.



Similarly a 4th-gen i7 costs more than the 6th-gen i5 right now. The i7 is faster than the i5, but twice as fast? no way.




So right now in my area the i5-4590 is the sweet spot and there is a pretty good incentive to make it work. But in your region it may be different. And tomorrow it may be different here.

 

[freddyq]

Adding a VPN server doesn't automatically make your network more secure. The thing that makes your network more secure is making sure that VPN server is the only service reachable from the internet. That means turning off UPnP (and NAT-PMP if your router has that option), and not forwarding any ports except for the one that the VPN server listens on. In many cases people use their router's built-in VPN server and therefore don't need to forward any ports at all.

Thanks for this - I will add to my notes for when I look at all the VPN stuff.

Like here in the USA I could find this 4th gen i5 box for around $105 USD after taxes.

So a quick look on eBay shows systems like this selling for around the same price in £, maybe slightly more. 6th gen i5 start to get more expensive than $ equivalents it seems.

Going back to the "one machine" spec I seem to be building a picture of from all your useful insight, I can find machines like this on eBay:

Dell Optiplex 9020 i7-4790 / 256GB SSD / 16GB RAM / Win 10 Pre Installed | eBay

D ell OptiPlex 9020 SFF i7-4790 3.6GHz Quad-Core 16GB RAM 256GB SSD on Windows 10. I have owned this PC for several years and recently upgraded the RAM to 16GB from 8GB. As stated in the title, this has a 256GB SSD allowing the machine to boot up really quickly.

www.ebay.co.uk

How do I figure out how many HDD drive bays this has? I can obviously ask the seller but is there a certain model or build that has 2 drive bays?

Also, what would I do for the NAS solution in this "one machine" setup? Could I use the second HDD for that?

Finally, on the "two machine" solution, what spec would the second (non BI) machine need to have? Could a mini PC work?

 

[sneakynuts]

I have an unraid machine using a i5-10400/16G Ram.
This runs a number of docker containers - Jellyfin (media streaming, similar to plex), mosquito, Unifi Controller, Node Red, ProxyManager, and a couple of others
I also have 2 VM's - pfSense and Windows 10.
This machine does not break a sweat!!

Granted, at present I have not installed BlueIris on the Win10 VM, but I do not think it cause any issues in performance

 

[freddyq]

I'm now leaning towards a machine for BI, VPN and Unifi Controller and then a separate solution for my media server. If I go for a 4th gen i7 type machine like I linked above I'm hoping that will cater for the fact that I'll be running more than just BI on it...

 

[eeeeesh]

6 years ago, I built a new home server around a Xeon E5-2630 v3 CPU and SuperMicro hardware. It has served me well over the years and I had planned on retiring it last year, but with improvements with Blue Iris using sub streams, it has cut the CPU usage in half. I currently have (11) active cameras and see no reason to replace it in the immediate future.

I am currently running ESXi 6.7 on it and have several active Virtual Machines running - Blue Iris, Plex, HomeSeer (home automation) Usenet Downloads, Server 2012, etc. I was running pfSense on it with 4 physical subnets, but I recently purchased a 'fanless minicomputer' from the Chinese maker of the Protectli Vault and saved about $200 in buying direct. (I was getting a little worried if I had a failure with the home server it would also take down my entire network with it)

Protectli: Trusted Firewall Appliances with Firmware Protection

Secure your network with a trusted Protectli Firewall Appliance! Fully compatible with open-source software. US-based support, warranty and repairs.

protectli.com

On the Vault clone, I am also running ESXi 6.7 with two virtual machines right now. One for pfSense and another WIn10 for Homeseer. CPU usage barely breaks 15%

When it comes to storage, I currently have about 50 TB spread across 7 hard drives. But, I have seen several home labs where they use a couple of smaller computers/servers along with some sort of Network Storage Device. I don't know much about NAS's but I am going to definitely look into them and may end up going that route when it comes time to replace my server

For you guys running pfSense, very pleased with the Protectli Vault clone. I bought their 6 port with the i5 7200u, but it is certainly overkill for just a router. Here is a direct link to the Manufacturers store where I bought it from on AliExpress. If you look at some of the video's/photo's of the Protectli Vault, you will see Yanling on the motherboard...

Yanling

Buy Products Online from China Wholesalers at Aliexpress.com

 

[freddyq]

Could someone please confirm I won't have any issues running BI, VPN, Unifi Controller and node.js server on a 4th gen i7 or 6th gen (or higher) i5 with 16GB RAM? As mentioned above, I will use a separate NAS box for that requirement.

 

[freddyq]

Anyone? I've seen a couple of Dell Precision T1700 machines on ebay. 4th gen i7, 16gb ram and enough space to add HDDs in future. Seems like the machine to get.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

 

[tmushy]

You ever looking into an ESXI server? Once you go this route, you never really go back. Run as many things you want on it.
I have one running my blue iris with a ubiquiti cloud server and unms server. All different operating systems.

More ram the better (luckily its cheap right now), and the more processor speed the better.
Ubiquiti software isnt really demanding. I also prefer running it in its own ubuntu server. Was never really a fan of the windows version