bigredfish
Known around here
So as expected I have no substream recording past 3pm when I set the substream mode to Off.
So on search in DMSS I have to set my streams to Main. Not desirable on remote NVRs with shitty connections.
out of focus
- Thread starter 10geezer
- Start date
So as expected I have no substream recording past 3pm when I set the substream mode to Off.
So on search in DMSS I have to set my streams to Main. Not desirable on remote NVRs with shitty connections.
Yep pretty much what if figured. It would be horrible in a remote situation relying on mainstream.
Can your computer keep up with all your cameras on the screen at the same time in mainstream? I would suspect it is choking, or could choke with some people's networks.
Can your computer keep up with all your cameras on the screen at the same time in mainstream? I would suspect it is choking, or could choke with some people's networks.
I know there is mix and different and I don't know if all or everyone even uses Snapshots let alone even look at them these days but without snapshots enabled for cameras and setting up 16 4mp cameras on 22fps, 4096bit, full time recording on Main and the same cameras recording 30fps on 704x480 aka D1 and 1024bit with no events just full time recording setup on both sub and main will fill a 4tb hdd in little more then 4 days.. Like an hour or 2 more lol.. Why how do I know well I made the mistake of doing a factory reset and got side tracked after setting up my cameras to the NVR using only 1 HDD at the time for that NVR, I setup the cameras and change to record on substream. Got side tracked. Then couple hours after falling asleep 4 nights laterI get alarm on my NVR that was enough to wake me, Come to find out forgot to change main in schedule and while full time snapshots was on by default that NVRs record page all snapshots are off so if they had been on full time it would have been less then 2 days recording on Full main and sub with snapshots.. Even that would be little different because not all the snapshots would have been the same size all day some are larger in size depending on the scene then 1mb per image per second x 16 cameras that is a lot of images lol.. But recorders come setup after Reset with full main and full time snapshots lol Who needs a snapshot every second missing 22 images in my case between each second lol.. geez lol.. DVRs rock they let you set the size of the Snapshots.. NVRs don't.. just saying.. 1,348,400 images a day for 16 cameras.. So I seen your update.. Confused.. DMSS? Remote? LOL don't know I mean then why record full time main stream lol.. You said because looking at sub stream bites.. I use P2P and I use my system on Main for live view and playback.. I get events that playback I don't normally look at the full time recordings unless I have to but why when I get an event I see what recorded in that event No need to playback sub streams.. But if In the event I have to then I do a search for the camera and pick substream as the full time method because that is what I record too full time not main stream.. Choking or could choke someones networks? I mean yeah recording Main and Sub streams could choke some networks.. But I don't know not everyone has loads of cameras..
All good just wanted to know, Now I know because while Remote you want to be able to watch full time recording playback without having to watch main stream playback because of bandwidth?
Thank you..
All good just wanted to know, Now I know because while Remote you want to be able to watch full time recording playback without having to watch main stream playback because of bandwidth?
Thank you..
observant1
Getting comfortable
I replaced 4 cameras for a lady that had issues with poor quality picture. The cams were Dahua 8mp and should look super great at default during the day with good lighting.
The installer shoud have sent them back.
I installed the 4mp 1/1.8 cams because she likes to see deer and animals at night. She's happy. A month later I asked if she still had the original cams but she gave them away. They were Dahua 8mp w 1/2.9 sensors but should have looked great during the day. She never used the AI features. I wish I'd asked her for them when i replaced them, just to see if something obvious was wrong. The original installer had tech support help him and all they came up with was a differtent 4k monitor that did not correct the focus on the cameras.
If I can get the model #'s i'll post them but I do not think I can.
My obvious conclusion "in this circumstance was bad cameras." i do not think that's your problem.
The installer shoud have sent them back.
I installed the 4mp 1/1.8 cams because she likes to see deer and animals at night. She's happy. A month later I asked if she still had the original cams but she gave them away. They were Dahua 8mp w 1/2.9 sensors but should have looked great during the day. She never used the AI features. I wish I'd asked her for them when i replaced them, just to see if something obvious was wrong. The original installer had tech support help him and all they came up with was a differtent 4k monitor that did not correct the focus on the cameras.
If I can get the model #'s i'll post them but I do not think I can.
My obvious conclusion "in this circumstance was bad cameras." i do not think that's your problem.
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bigredfish
Known around here
First, I don't care about storage. Its cheap, if I need more I buy more. Some people are addicted to managing it like a religion.
If it wasnt my money or I was managing installations of hundreds of cameras, I may care more, but still not much. Its cheap.
On Snapshots, I set mine on the NVR at 5 second intervals from the default 1 second
NVRs do let you set Snapshot quality, which effects file size
I frequently use DMSS to view remote NVRs that I manage or help manage when I'm not sitting at my desk, yes. And I dont think you understood what I wrote, I cant really tell from your wall of text and lack of thought separation. On reviewing video on DMSS from sites with slow/bad connections, Substreams are desirable. Nothing to do with choking any networks, its a matter of having a smaller bandwidth stream to view without lags or dropouts. The same holds true viewing my own cameras when I'm remote say with my laptop. I've not always got the best connection at the Holiday Inn Express and being able to review substreams can be handy.
I dont get push alerts for many/most of these offsite systems, I help when asked mostly, and review nighttime footage (events) over coffee on 3 of them. . So yes I often need to scrub a little video to get to an event based on an approx time given to me and go through a few events on a timeline to find the right one. Its not a big deal as its only a few a week.
I record main streams on these remote NVRs because the folks who own them rightly and correctly WANT the main stream being recorded. Just like me and you
I use MAIN on my own home system for Live and Playback as well. Thats not the point.
If it wasnt my money or I was managing installations of hundreds of cameras, I may care more, but still not much. Its cheap.
On Snapshots, I set mine on the NVR at 5 second intervals from the default 1 second
NVRs do let you set Snapshot quality, which effects file size
I frequently use DMSS to view remote NVRs that I manage or help manage when I'm not sitting at my desk, yes. And I dont think you understood what I wrote, I cant really tell from your wall of text and lack of thought separation. On reviewing video on DMSS from sites with slow/bad connections, Substreams are desirable. Nothing to do with choking any networks, its a matter of having a smaller bandwidth stream to view without lags or dropouts. The same holds true viewing my own cameras when I'm remote say with my laptop. I've not always got the best connection at the Holiday Inn Express and being able to review substreams can be handy.
I dont get push alerts for many/most of these offsite systems, I help when asked mostly, and review nighttime footage (events) over coffee on 3 of them. . So yes I often need to scrub a little video to get to an event based on an approx time given to me and go through a few events on a timeline to find the right one. Its not a big deal as its only a few a week.
I record main streams on these remote NVRs because the folks who own them rightly and correctly WANT the main stream being recorded. Just like me and you
I use MAIN on my own home system for Live and Playback as well. Thats not the point.
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what is preferred settings for stopping night time movement with the following or indeed daytime
Iris
Exposure Compensation
3D NR
3D NR Level
2D NR Level
Iris
Exposure Compensation
3D NR
3D NR Level
2D NR Level
Shutter speed is most important followed by gain and NR.
Remember this is a digital iris, so any changes is basically manipulating gain and not an actual iris.
Exposure Compensation only works on default/auto settings (or is supposed to lol).
Remember this is a digital iris, so any changes is basically manipulating gain and not an actual iris.
Exposure Compensation only works on default/auto settings (or is supposed to lol).
Iris and Exposure Compensation should stay on default. NR should go as low as possible. Like 20s in the day and 40 at night.
In terms of getting the most out of the camera, here is my "standard" post that many use as a start for dialing in day and night that helps get the clean captures and help the camera recognize people and cars.
Every field of view is different, but I have found you need contrast to usually be 6-8 higher than the brightness number at night.
We want the ability to freeze frame capture a clean image from the video at night, and that is only done with a shutter of 1/60 or faster. At night, default/auto may be on 1/12s shutter or worse to make the image bright.
In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.
Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.
Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-4ms exposure and 0-30 gain (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared or white light.
Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night static image results in Casper blur and ghost during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?
In the daytime, if it is still too bright, then drop the 4ms down to 3ms then 2ms, etc. You have to play with it for your field of view.
Then at night, if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.
You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image. But try not to go above 70 for anything and try to have contrast be at least 7-10 digits higher than brightness.
You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.
But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.
Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.
After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.
In terms of getting the most out of the camera, here is my "standard" post that many use as a start for dialing in day and night that helps get the clean captures and help the camera recognize people and cars.
Every field of view is different, but I have found you need contrast to usually be 6-8 higher than the brightness number at night.
We want the ability to freeze frame capture a clean image from the video at night, and that is only done with a shutter of 1/60 or faster. At night, default/auto may be on 1/12s shutter or worse to make the image bright.
In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.
Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.
Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-4ms exposure and 0-30 gain (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared or white light.
Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night static image results in Casper blur and ghost during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?
In the daytime, if it is still too bright, then drop the 4ms down to 3ms then 2ms, etc. You have to play with it for your field of view.
Then at night, if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.
You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image. But try not to go above 70 for anything and try to have contrast be at least 7-10 digits higher than brightness.
You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.
But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.
Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.
After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.
bigredfish
Known around here
Is this still the HFW5849T1-AS-LED ?
Are you planning on running the white LED's on at night or not? How much ambient light do you have?
Without video samples we're just spitballing
Are you planning on running the white LED's on at night or not? How much ambient light do you have?
Without video samples we're just spitballing
brf it is both
the 5849 was the soft focus issue , now set to all the preferred settings and it seemed ok until it got to dusk then weird images , orange looking very poor then when i switched to auto it all improved including no rising bars on floodlight
i dont want to waste your time so i need to do more setting changes & write down time & date & follow through in stages. hikvision were useful as changes were recorded overlaid on the footage !
the 5849 was the soft focus issue , now set to all the preferred settings and it seemed ok until it got to dusk then weird images , orange looking very poor then when i switched to auto it all improved including no rising bars on floodlight
i dont want to waste your time so i need to do more setting changes & write down time & date & follow through in stages. hikvision were useful as changes were recorded overlaid on the footage !
bigredfish
Known around here
You must understand that running Auto or any other slow shutter at night will greatly improve the static image. I can make it look like 2 in the afternoon with almost any cheap $50 camera at night.
But you will find movement is ghosting and blur and you may as well have bought a cheap $50 camera!
But you will find movement is ghosting and blur and you may as well have bought a cheap $50 camera!
bigredfish
Known around here
You have to answer questions for us to help.
Are you planning on running the white LEDs at night? It makes a difference in the settings.
That and seeing a video.
Glad to help when you get that sorted out
Are you planning on running the white LEDs at night? It makes a difference in the settings.
That and seeing a video.
Glad to help when you get that sorted out
Keep in mind a motion activated floodlight can result in a temporary exposure issue that misses the ideal capture if you do not spend the time to mitigate it with settings.
Keep in mind that with the faster shutters, the camera does need to see something to trigger, so if the image is too dark until the floodlight comes on, then you will miss the ideal capture.
A lot more help can be provided with some simple video.
Keep in mind that with the faster shutters, the camera does need to see something to trigger, so if the image is too dark until the floodlight comes on, then you will miss the ideal capture.
A lot more help can be provided with some simple video.
videos will follow , wish there was a simple way to get them , nut your issue has already been incorporated as the lights come on 2 secs or more before person enters the frame !
bigredfish
Known around here
With a color camera the floods shouldn’t be an issue. But you need to adjust settings to having the floods on and accept it will suck with them off