Package thieves on Christmas eve morning.

Nitedaze

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tangent/Fenderman, thank you! I have to admit, as wronged as I felt, you are 100% correct. I'm frankly a bit disappointed in myself because I attempt to give a lot of thought to individual liberty and libertarian ideals. I appreciate you taking the time to remind me that everyone deserves the right of "presumption of innocence" and I take my hat off to you.
 

fenderman

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tangent/Fenderman, thank you! I have to admit, as wronged as I felt, you are 100% correct. I'm frankly a bit disappointed in myself because I attempt to give a lot of thought to individual liberty and libertarian ideals. I appreciate you taking the time to remind me that everyone deserves the right of "presumption of innocence" and I take my hat off to you.
You need to be commended for taking the time to prosecute. These guys get away with it because most folks dont bother.
 

J Sigmo

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...or are intimidated, and don't press charges out of the (often reasonable) fear of future trouble or retaliation.
 

tangent

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...or are intimidated, and don't press charges out of the (often reasonable) fear of future trouble or retaliation.
And that's why you keep the camera and/or voice recorder rolling if you ever see them again.
 

wtimothyholman

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tangent/Fenderman, thank you! I have to admit, as wronged as I felt, you are 100% correct. I'm frankly a bit disappointed in myself because I attempt to give a lot of thought to individual liberty and libertarian ideals. I appreciate you taking the time to remind me that everyone deserves the right of "presumption of innocence" and I take my hat off to you.
There is an excellent chance that you won't even need to testify. The defendant and his attorney are hoping that you won't show up in court, because that's the only way the charges will be dropped. That video is a slam dunk in terms of evidence, but it needs your corroboration under oath.

When the defendant's attorney sees that you are in court, ready to testify, he or she won't bother wasting the court's time in a hopeless case. The defendant will accept a plea bargain, and just like that it will be over. You will probably never even be called to the stand.
 

bababouy

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There is an excellent chance that you won't even need to testify. The defendant and his attorney are hoping that you won't show up in court, because that's the only way the charges will be dropped. That video is a slam dunk in terms of evidence, but it needs your corroboration under oath.

When the defendant's attorney sees that you are in court, ready to testify, he or she won't bother wasting the court's time in a hopeless case. The defendant will accept a plea bargain, and just like that it will be over. You will probably never even be called to the stand.
This is true in 99 percent of our cases. Most of the time we just need to show up.
 

fenderman

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There is an excellent chance that you won't even need to testify. The defendant and his attorney are hoping that you won't show up in court, because that's the only way the charges will be dropped. That video is a slam dunk in terms of evidence, but it needs your corroboration under oath.

When the defendant's attorney sees that you are in court, ready to testify, he or she won't bother wasting the court's time in a hopeless case. The defendant will accept a plea bargain, and just like that it will be over. You will probably never even be called to the stand.
I think his concern was the perps seeing him. Even if there is no testimony, they will see him - particularly in the small municipal courts where often the prosecutor sits out in open court.
 

bababouy

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I think his concern was the perps seeing him. Even if there is no testimony, they will see him - particularly in the small municipal courts where often the prosecutor sits out in open court.
Yeah, this is any one's concern when going to court, or being a snitch, but as a society, we can't be scared of scum. If we are , they win. This is a tough choice if you have kids or a family, or you just want to be left alone, but we should realize that the OP didn't start this, the scum did.
 

wtimothyholman

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Yeah, this is any one's concern when going to court, or being a snitch, but as a society, we can't be scared of scum. If we are , they win. This is a tough choice if you have kids or a family, or you just want to be left alone, but we should realize that the OP didn't start this, the scum did.
I agree completely. Either you take steps to stand up to crime, or you live the life of BOHICA (bend over, here it comes again). The police will not protect you. You have to protect yourself, and just the fact that you have installed cameras means that you're not going to passively accept being a victim.

Petty criminals like the perp are generally not stupid enough to make their situation worse. The perp knows perfectly well that he wronged @Nitedaze, not the other way around. If he is crazy enough to want revenge, he and his attorney have already seen the video evidence and the police report. He already knows where @Nitedaze lives. But doing so would make no sense.

He's a petty thief. If he plea bargains, he'll probably get a few months in jail at most, even if he's a repeat offender. If he's lucky, the witness won't show up, and he'll walk. He knows this. Carrying or using a weapon, or threatening a homeowner, might earn him some real prison time. Not to mention that if he lives in a city where gun ownership is still allowed, he could easily wind up with a bullet in him if he tries to escalate the situation. That's the very last thing he wants.

What he will probably do is accept the relative slap on the wrist he'll probably get, and be sure to avoid @Nitedaze's house in the future, now that he knows there's a high resolution camera on the premises. There are plenty of other places he can burglarize. The odds are in his favor.
 

J Sigmo

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First, I agree that passively allowing this sort of crime to go unpunished is one huge factor in it becoming more common. When legislation, budgets, jail overcrowding, etc., ties the hands of police and courts, making prosecutions unlikely and sentencing light or non-existent for this sort of crime, it emboldens criminals.

Further, the hassle of taking the time off work or out of a busy schedule to appear in court likely means that a lot of victims don't bother doing their part in successfully prosecuting such crimes.

So the criminals know that the chances of being punished are slim.

But with regard to potential retaliation, and to play Devil's Advocate here: Something people need to realize is that the brains of most repeat offenders often do not work the way most of us would hope or imagine. We cannot put ourselves in their place and think through what their thought processes "should be".

Studies done on repeat offenders in prisons have shown that they often make the same logic and thinking errors over and over.

Often, they display sociopathic thinking. They do not see theft from someone else as a crime or even something wrong.

On the other hand, they may perceive any action against them by others as an unwarranted attack, even if it is a logical outgrowth of their own behavior (which, once again, seems perfectly normal to them).

Many of these people show lack of empathy toward others and an inability to accept any blame for their own bad actions. Nothing is ever their fault. They're the ultimate selfish, "entitled" citizens.

I should avoid making the obvious political remarks here, but I suspect many of you can already see where that might be going! ;)

Anyhow, I agree that everyone needs to step up to the plate and do their duty and part as a member of our society, and within our system of justice to assure that it works.

But it is well to realize that we cannot expect criminals to think with the same logic that we would use in the same situations. After all, if they thought the way we do, they wouldn't be stealing packages off of porches to begin with.
 
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Nitedaze

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I agree J Sigmo. And I believe there is a decent chance of these two low lifes dreaming up some kind of revenge. I have a CC and I'm not a small person. I am adding more cameras for future possible vandalism. I've been told the two are known in the community for their meth addiction and dirty deeds but apparently she has some connected family that provided her a house in the neighborhood and some type of connections to keep her out of jail. With over 500 "friends" on facebook she has some kind of local network of family that keeps enabling her criminal life. One thing I know is I'm not backing down. I will be there to watch them grovel.
 

PapaBill

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Just to give ya a heads up I have been subpoenaed a few times to go to court as a witness (old days of doing security) and 99% of the time, the scumbags see ya there and all of a sudden they want to talk to the D.A. about making a deal.
The last one was a few years back when 2 guys were fighting across the street from my house. My wife yelled for me and I called the cops and I had to go to court even though my wife saw it all, but when the guilty scumbag saw me in the hallway at the courtroom he called the D.A. over and next thing I know the D.A. says THANK YOU, you can go home now, hes pleading guilty.
So good luck to ya brother and keep us informed.
 

looney2ns

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I once had a business that was next to a landscaping biz.
It was a Sunday after noon, and I saw a guy back up to the landscaping biz and proceed to load 10 bags of mulch into the trunk of his car.
The Landscaping biz was closed on Sundays. I call the popo, popo arrives and catches him red handed.
I see the owner of the next door biz the next day, tell him what transpired, and he was furious that I called the police. What?

All he was concerned about was that:
  • He would have to appear in court, thus wasting part of a day out away from his business.
  • His products would be held as evidence.
  • His products most likely wouldn't be returned to him after the trial.
  • He'd been down this road before, and thought of it strictly as an annoyance.
Of course I had to appear as well. Would I make a call like that again? Absolutely.
 

wtimothyholman

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All he was concerned about was that:
  • He would have to appear in court, thus wasting part of a day out away from his business.
  • His products would be held as evidence.
  • His products most likely wouldn't be returned to him after the trial.
  • He'd been down this road before, and thought of it strictly as an annoyance.
And of course if you hadn't call the cops, his products would still be gone, and that same criminal would know exactly where to go the next time he needed more yard supplies.

People wonder how perps can have rap sheets where charge after charge has been dismissed by the judge, and this is exactly why. Everyone wants the police to protect them from criminals, but no one wants to appear in court to help put the criminals away.
 

bigredfish

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I once had a business that was next to a landscaping biz.
It was a Sunday after noon, and I saw a guy back up to the landscaping biz and proceed to load 10 bags of mulch into the trunk of his car.
The Landscaping biz was closed on Sundays. I call the popo, popo arrives and catches him red handed.
I see the owner of the next door biz the next day, tell him what transpired, and he was furious that I called the police. What?

All he was concerned about was that:
  • He would have to appear in court, thus wasting part of a day out away from his business.
  • His products would be held as evidence.
  • His products most likely wouldn't be returned to him after the trial.
  • He'd been down this road before, and thought of it strictly as an annoyance.
Of course I had to appear as well. Would I make a call like that again? Absolutely.

This is of course the real problem. People have become too lazy, shortsighted and "non-confrontational". Appeasement usually doesnt work out well in the end...
 

Natey2

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They wont go back - they know you will make sure they serve more time.
Or they might retaliate against the person who turned them in.
Sometimes even Jurors are afraid to serve on juries against gang members... the identity of the juror is not protected against the other gang members who are not being charged and who can retaliate against their criminal buddy's misfortune in a court of law.
 

fenderman

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Or they might retaliate against the person who turned them in.
Sometimes even Jurors are afraid to serve on juries against gang members... the identity of the juror is not protected against the other gang members who are not being charged and who can retaliate against their criminal buddy's misfortune in a court of law.
You are misinformed... It is very rare for anything to happen to a juror ever... You also have to remember that these are porch pirates.. there is a reason they stick to this type of crime.. it's non-confrontational.
 
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