PC or NVR?

ChasVideo

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I have an old hardwired camera low resolution security DVR. I just bought a new 4K POE IP camera to play with. I am wondering about using a PC or a new dedicated NVR box. I "think" there is a secret problem with the NVRs. If you attach more cameras, you have to reduce the resolutions and fps to let them keep up. Another problem for me is that you must run one cable to each camera. I see a cheap router I can buy that supports 4 POE devices. Then I can run just one cable back to a PC. The next time I upgrade my gaming PC, I can dedicate a mid-power PC to be my NVR.

Opinions?
 

wittaj

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Skip the router that supports POE devices. Consumer grade routers, especially cheap ones cannot efficiently pass the bandwidth of 24/7 cameras. Unlike Netflix and other streaming services that buffer a movie, these cameras do not buffer up part of the video, so drop outs are frequent. You would be amazed how much streaming services buffer - don't believe me, start watching something and unplug your router and watch how much longer you can watch NetFlix before it freezes (mine goes 45 seconds). I pull the plug on the ethernet from the camera switch and the video is lost instantly.

If you go the PC route, purchase a second NIC and you put all your cameras on that NIC (different IP address range) than your home internet on a different IP address range. Then your cameras are not passing through an inefficient router and bogging down your system. And it prevents your cameras from phoning home or being used for bot attacks.

I'd recommend you consider a Blue Iris/computer combo as an NVR. Keep in mind an NVR is simply a stripped down computer after all... And this would allow you the flexibility to mix camera brands.

You don't need to buy components and build one, or buy a new computer either.

When I was looking at replacing an existing NVR, once I realized that not all NVRs are created equal, and once I priced out a good one, it was cheaper to buy a refurbished computer than an NVR.

Many of us buy refurbished computers that are business class computers that have come off lease. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit. I went with the lowest end processor on the WIKI list as it was the cheapest and it runs my system fine. Could probably get going for $200 or so. A real NVR will cost more than that.

A member here a couple months ago found a refurbished 4th generation for less than $150USD that came with Win10 PRO, 16GB RAM, and a 1TB drive. Blue Iris has a demo, so try it out on an existing computer and see if you like it.

Blue Iris has a demo, so try it out on an existing computer and see if you like it. You can probably pull the cameras from the NVR right into Blue Iris by simply adding in the IP address of the NVR in the camera IP address of Blue Iris and putting in a user and password then down about halfway is a camera # and you just select the camera number to bring in.

There is a big Blue Iris or NVR debate here LOL. Some people love Blue Iris and think NVRs are clunky and hard to use and others think Blue Iris is clunky and hard to use. I have done both and prefer Blue Iris. As with everything YMMV...

And you can disable Windows updates and set up the computer to automatically restart in a power failure, and then you have a more powerful NVR with a nice mobile viewing interface.

Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either. But we would recommend staying away from those brands even if you go the NVR route with one of those brands...
 

ChasVideo

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ks.

I'd recommend you consider a Blue Iris/computer combo as an NVR. Keep in mind an NVR is simply a stripped down
OK. I think I am seeing dropouts with just my one camera. I have it aimed at my hummingbird feeder. 25 Hz should look less jerky than it does. I will use a dedicated network to keep the internet out. I am passing the camera through an older router, but it is a gigabit/ 1000Mbps one. It only has the one camera attached to it and no other network is going to the PC I am platying with. How do you suggest I run the cameras to the PC? A commercial grade router? Sound too expensive for me. How many 4k or 8k cameras can a PC and your software keep up with? Unfortunately my camera is a Reolink. It was cheap and on sale. I knew that it was mostly a toy but I am not looking to set up a buisness grade system. I just want to watch around my yard.
 

wittaj

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The gigabit ratings of a router is meaningless when it comes to these types of cameras. The router just isn't designed to efficiently pass full-throttle data that these cameras will be sending. Webpages, emails, NetFlix, etc. all buffer and send packets and wait and send more. These cameras constantly stream.

A member here is running 50 cameras on a 4th generation intel CPU at 30% CPU utilization. Blue Iris supports 64 cameras.

Many will suggest higher end gear, but for a budget, purchase a cheap POE+ switch. Connect the cameras and the PC to that switch with one of the NICs on the PC. Then connect the other NIC to your internet. Then access the NVR program by typing in the IP address of the PC from any device on your internet.

Sorry to hear about the Reolink LOL.
 

looney2ns

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Be sure you study the wiki at the top of the page pay close attention to the cliff notes.

Use search the upper right hand corner and read about reo link cameras. if you still can it's highly advisable to return it and get your money back. Reolink has many problems,

Be sure you have your terminology correct, you keep saying router but do you mean a Poe switch? Big difference between the two.
 

ChasVideo

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looney2ns

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I mean router. I had to buy a cheap POE injector to power this one camera. The camera goes to an older Dlink router and then to the PC. I am using the router as just a switch.

I assume something like this is not good enough ether:

Is there some rating I should look for? Like camera rated, or something?
Cam Data should not pass through the router. Most home class routers can't handle that much data going through its ports without choking on it, that could be the cause of your pausing that you're seeing.
So you need a Poe switch not an injector, with at least four or five ports on it. Then you would plug your computer into the switch, then you would plug the camera into the same switch, then you would run one cable from the same switch to the router, but you only need the cable from the switch to the router if you intend to view the camera from Wi-Fi or from when you're away from home. I like to stick with Netgear Poe switches, never had a problem with one of them.
 

Flintstone61

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Get both. :) Get a POE NVR for IP cams. Then import the streams into Blue Iris. Then see which one you like better?
We can tell you all the stuff here, but you really should experience them for yourself.
One camera through the switch port of a router, can deliver the image.
But that device is busy multitasking. It's sending packets to all the Wireless devices, and the Ethernet devices.
It could conceivably be a real bottle neck for data thruput. Esp. if you start upgrading to newer cams as you move ahead.
for today you can run it that way, but as you've seen, the "power users" Looney and Wittaj, have chimed in and recommend a POE switch.
heres something to consider.....
 
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The Automation Guy

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I have an old hardwired camera low resolution security DVR. I just bought a new 4K POE IP camera to play with. I am wondering about using a PC or a new dedicated NVR box. I "think" there is a secret problem with the NVRs. If you attach more cameras, you have to reduce the resolutions and fps to let them keep up. Another problem for me is that you must run one cable to each camera. I see a cheap router I can buy that supports 4 POE devices. Then I can run just one cable back to a PC. The next time I upgrade my gaming PC, I can dedicate a mid-power PC to be my NVR.

Opinions?
There is no right or wrong answer here, but you definitely need to list out your goals/desires for a CCTV system before making a choice - especially if you go with an NVR because they can be hard to expand.

As you noted, NVRs will have a max total resolution that they can handle and you need to buy one that is appropirate for your use. You don't want to waste money by buying a system with huge capacity if you are never going to use it, but you also don't want to run out of capacity 6 months after your purchase either. Honestly PCs have a max total resolution too, but using a i5 or i7 chip will result in plenty of headroom that the average user isn't going to come close to running out of. This is one major advantage to a computer - you can expand on it pretty easily. It's easy to add more cameras or storage, etc. An NVR is going to be very specific in its hardware capabilities.

Personally I have gone with the computer option. The one argument everyone uses for the positives of a NVR is the idea that a NVR is by design more stable than a Windows machine. But while an NVR isn't running Windows, it IS still a computer running some sort of software. I find that BI running on a dedicated Windows 10 platform is extremely stable and I've never had an issue with the system stopping by itself for some reason. I personally like the flexibility and expandability that the BI machine offers. I've already increased the number of cameras I run several times and will likely continue to add more cameras over time. I like being able to have as much storage as I want to buy vs being limited to just one or two drives in an NVR.
 
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