Picking a system

[dzimm27]

I have been doing tons of reading on this forum and elsewhere, but was hoping someone would chime in to confirm I am on the right track with my thought and findings. I am looking to put in an NVR with 4-5 cameras and at this point and want to pick one "ecosystem" and stay there. Goals are to be able to use live view to see who is at the door or if anyone is in the driveway, recorded viewing secondary but with motion detection so that we can catch interesting events on camera with local wildlife or (hopefully not) anyone venturing into our yard. Hikvision and Dahua seem to each be good choices and have their proponents so I am sure either would be a good solution. Initially I was leaning heavily towards Hikvision until I started playing with the phone and computer applications.

Hikvision:
-The web interface for the demo systems load well on PC and Mac which is a big plus, but while it looks full featured, it seems to lack the "polish" of Dahua's
-iVMS4200 works on both PC and Mac, did not seem as polished as SmartPSS, but possibly more functinal.
-iVMS4500 on iOS would not connect to any of the demo systems. People in the iOS app store are complaining an update broke it, which is a big concern. I don't carry an Android anymore but the Android store reviews seem to not be reporting this. Maybe this is just an issue with these demo systems but not being able to remote view could be a deal killer. Everyone else seems to say Hikvision hands down has the best mobile app though, so I am presuming/hoping my test experience is not a good example of what to expect.

Dahua:
-The web interface requires plugins to log in (Although there was mention on the NVR52xx thread about a firmware update changing this perhaps? That could be a huge difference maker) and from Windows I could only get into it with Internet Explorer. Forget about getting into it from my Mac. That is a pretty major concern as Macs outnumber PCs in this house. Once into the web interface, it looks more polished and friendly and plenty functional.
-SmartPSS works great on the Mac and PC, looks very polished and seemed possibly faster/more stable than iVMS4200. Might have a few less features than iVMS-4200 but I may just be saying this because iVMS seems more technical in nature.
-iDMSS Lite on iOS seems to work great. The Dahua demo systems don't have recorded playback ability (and I think I'd need to buy the paid app for that anyway - which is fine), but the app loads super quick, feeds load quickly, etc.

I don't see any huge glaring functionality differences between the two web interfaces. I know a guy who works with OEM Hikvision and he says he loves them. I did a network setup for a building using a rebranded Dahua (Q-See) and thought that seemed pretty snazzy, but otherwise have no direct experience with them.

Being a computer guy, the security concerns of backdoors are pushing me towards getting something I can get timely firmware updates to, but I also plan to isolate these on my network and most likely access via VPN anyway. The prices on AE for international version, updatable Hikvision units had me leaning that route. Still generally get the idea that Hikvision is going to release updates more often. Is that the general feeling? Dahua appears to have firmware updates too but my reading indicates that they either did not do this in the past or are not expected to be timely with updates - right?

The NVRs I was eyeing were (with the idea of getting headroom for processing power/camera capacity, also plan to use a separate PoE switch for noise reasons):
Hikvision DS-7616NI-I2 - Last FW update 2/28/2017 per Dahua site
Dahua NVR4216-4KS2 - Last FW update 2/24/2017 per Dahua site
Dahua NVR5216-4KS2 - Last FW update 7/21/2016 per Dahua site

Frankly as I just went to look at the firmware dates I was surprised the 42xx Dahuas were as current as they were, but surprised the 52xx series was not.

I know it may seem backwards as the cameras are probably the most important factor here, but I am hoping to narrow down NVR choice first to narrow down camera choices. My thought is that if this is not easy to use from the UI perspective (web/mobile/software) then we will not get full value/enjoyment from a system, so would love some input there.

Camera-wise (determinate on NVR choice of course as I want to match brands) I figure I am looking at 4MP Hikvision fixed domes or turrets (but leaning domes for easy cleaning) or figuring out if Dahua's 4MP dome or dropping down to the 2MP range for a starlight is worth it (less detail vs better nighttime illumination). I am not against putting in an IR illuminator in areas where needed either. It would appear that generally Hikvision camera options have seemed less expensive vs Dahua, but I admit to not know the Dahua lineup yet to know what to look at.

At this point I find myself leaning towards Dahua but want to make sure I am not missing something here. Would appreciate any feedback anyone might have here. Thanks!

 

[dzimm27]

Anyone? Have figured out the Dahua non-POE NVRs do have a fan, but a thread mentioning a Noctua quieter replacement is probably worth keeping them in the running on the noise side of thing. Seems like turrets or eyeballs are almost universally preferred over domes and since this is for a residential setting, vandal-proofing is less of a concern. The 4mp EXIR turret/eyeballs from Hikvision did seem to have pretty good IR performance but those starlights from Dahua are pretty amazing. Would still love input on frustrations with quirks of the different PC/Mac software and NVR features. I will go out on a limb and assume that Dahua's public posting of firmware is a new trend that will keep active and may make update concerns moot - but I suppose no one knows how frequent those updates will be.

 

[mat200]

Hi Dzimm27,

Surprised you've gotten no comments until now.

I am new to this so I can only share what I have read and the little experience I have picked up so far with my dahua oem 5216 POE nvr.

Firmware updates - indeed it is rather frustrating that both Dahua and Hikvision are no where close to what I have come to expect from established tech vendors ( google, apple, microsoft, and linux distros. ) From what I have read Hikvision is making it even more difficult for those purchasing grey market equipment compared to Dahua.

Here's how I made my choices once I narrowed it down between Dahua and Hikvision:
1) Dahua vs Hikvision: as I needed night imaging more than day time imaging AND for the mentioned firmware update issues I chose Dahua cameras based on others recommendations.
2) Blue Iris on PC vs NVR: As I did not have a decent spare windows PC I chose an NVR.
Lots of people here really like Blue Iris - so for me it came down to budget and long term electricity consumption, heat generation, and space. [ my network "closet is smaller than I like and I am still working on ventilation improvements for it. ]
3) NVR with POE ports vs NVR w/o + POE switch: Strictly a budget reason, my expenditures was already getting higher than my initial budget and I didn't want to wait to find a good enterprise switch via ebay, thus chose nvr with POE.
4) 8 Ports vs 16 Ports: 24 ports would clearly be too many for POE cameras, 8 ports should be fine, .. for only a little more I could get the 16 port version - and many people here recommended getting more ports than I imagined at first. Thus NVR5216 w/16 POE ports.

This setup allowed me to "quickly" get it up and going - well not quick because I still had a lot of wiring to do, but then quicker than other options.

I've elected to keep the system isolated for now until I have more time to properly secure everything.

Now with the experience I have, I am considering the option of still getting a used enterprise POE switch if I ever see the model(s) I like on sale at a price I like.

Depending on time and resources I still may play with Blue Iris in the future.

Also do check out the following forum post:
Your experience with NVR vs PC (Blue Iris, etc.) using Dahua cameras?

Am I happy with the NVR purchase - yes, it allowed me to more quickly setup the cameras I needed. There is still more for me to learn on it, and while I do not think of it as an ideal system it is good enough and a good price point.

IF you have a larger budget and more time I would seriously recommend taking a closer look at Blue Iris and a POE switch. You can test by purchasing ONE Dahua Starlight turret, POE injector, and a windows PC with the demo version of Blue Iris. If you want to keep your price point lower, and have less extra time - imho the NVR w/POE gets you started fairly quickly.

Have fun setting your system up!

 

[dzimm27]

Mat200 - thank you so much for your reply. I had given up on a response and figured the general sentiment here was "read through all the threads so we don't have to repeat ourselves endlessly" - which honestly I totally get.

After much reading, I ended up with an NVR5216-4KS2 and three IPC-HDW5231R-Z cams (starter batch). Am rewiring my house to a network rack and went all fanless (well, except the NVR). So far the NVR5216-4KS2 has not been noisy enough to overcome the ambient noise in my office so will see what happens once I get it into the rack. Seeing that Scythe and Noctua make 40mm x 10mm fans has me itching to replace the fan, but if it isn't noisy that can wait. Going fanless otherwise (that was a slight hangup for going Dahua over Hikvision - Edgeswitch ES-24-LITE (main network), Zyxel GS1900-8HP (to power cams and Unifi wifi - will add a second if I go over 7 powered port requirements. IoT (and cams) will go on their own VLAN with security rules allowing access from the LAN for viewing. Mounted up two of the cameras today and am going to try to figure out where to put the front door camera through the brick at the front door. Terminations to the patch panel hopefully tomorrow as well so everything can fire up and I can really start playing with it.

I, like you, value the night time viewing more than day, but am anxiously waiting to see if I find the daytime quality lacking in certain areas for a higher resolution cam. We shall see - but night time vision is valuable and we hope to catch some interesting critters as well.

Largely, the seemingly increased availability of the Dahua firmwares (in part through Andy), the better night vision cameras, plus a reliable purchasing source (Andy again), helped me steer that way. I will also say I was much more impressed with the SmartPSS application on Windows/Mac than I was the iVMS-4200. Of course ironically iVMS-4200 was a resource hog when testing and SmartPSS was fine. Now with my NVR5216-4KS2 in my test setup, SmartPSS is pegging my processor when running - so maybe there is no perfect solution. SmartPSS didn't crash on my Mac like the Hikvision software did, so that was duly noted.

I am sure I will be re-reading the NVR or cam threads again as I get to playing with this but so far the one slight annoyance I seem to find is that there is no saved default "showing when you launch the application" view for SmartPSS or the phone/iPad apps, meaning you have to either recall the last view or load a view preset. I don't recall this being an issue with Hikvision so perhaps point there goes to Hikvision. Wider browser support also is a point in Hikvision's favor, but 99% of my use will be from a desktop/laptop app or a phone, so I am not as worried about those.

Am working on figuring out a good way to seal up the IPC-HDW5231R-Z from bugs - picked up some weather stripping but in trying to insert it while assembling the cameras today I found the reality is that it needs to be able to be inserted after the camera is positioned for it to even be an option. So probably a foam strip of sorts cut to the right size. Also - my IPC-HDW5231R-Z did not come with a little rubber plug to fill the pigtail hole on the side of the camera mount. Small detail, but when paired with the PFA137 junction box with the nice weather tight seals, the gaping holes in the camera are comical!

 

[mat200]

.. Also - my IPC-HDW5231R-Z did not come with a little rubber plug to fill the pigtail hole on the side of the camera mount. Small detail, but when paired with the PFA137 junction box with the nice weather tight seals, the gaping holes in the camera are comical!

A little silicone will solve that

 

[dzimm27]

A little silicone will solve that

Good call. Probably the best option all around.