Pixelated motion on IPC-HFW4431R-Z
- Thread starter rinmak
- Start date
Cyph
n3wb
- Feb 12, 2017
- 24
- 1
@Cyph i can understand that you were thinking that the hfw5431 is not bad. I don´t know where you bought them, @nayr only compares the price to aliexpress. 
Of course the cheapest way to get them, but it´s not for every customer wanted. In the real world the new starlights are double the price and difficult to get. Of course, for this price i need to expect much more quality, and this is for this generation guaranteed.
For the night picture you forget to see the differences between indoor (much moor reflection of ir / outdoor is much more difficult) for only 3m to outside at 10m and now you need to look on moving objects. If you pimp your hfw4431 with an external ir spot, you will get a much better picture, but it´s still not so clear as the picture of the sony exmore starlight sensor. The night difference it really big. I also own a HFW4431 with fixed focus and aperature of only 2.0 and external power ir led 9w. I got this cam for cheap 70 dollars, for no security purposes it´s for me ok.
There are many other purposes, where these cheaper ones are good to use, except security solutions
Or with other words, if the user knows the disadvantages, it´s his decision what he is willing to pay.
Of course the cheapest way to get them, but it´s not for every customer wanted. In the real world the new starlights are double the price and difficult to get. Of course, for this price i need to expect much more quality, and this is for this generation guaranteed.For the night picture you forget to see the differences between indoor (much moor reflection of ir / outdoor is much more difficult) for only 3m to outside at 10m and now you need to look on moving objects. If you pimp your hfw4431 with an external ir spot, you will get a much better picture, but it´s still not so clear as the picture of the sony exmore starlight sensor. The night difference it really big. I also own a HFW4431 with fixed focus and aperature of only 2.0 and external power ir led 9w. I got this cam for cheap 70 dollars, for no security purposes it´s for me ok.
There are many other purposes, where these cheaper ones are good to use, except security solutions
Or with other words, if the user knows the disadvantages, it´s his decision what he is willing to pay.
Cyph
n3wb
- Feb 12, 2017
- 24
- 1
@Cyph i can understand that you were thinking that the hfw5431 is not bad. I don´t know where you bought them, @nayr only compares the price to aliexpress.
For the night picture you forget to see the differences between indoor (much moor reflection of ir / outdoor is much more difficult) for only 3m to outside at 10m and now you need to look on moving objects. If you pimp your hfw4431 with an external ir spot, you will get a much better picture, but it´s still not so clear as the picture of the sony exmore starlight sensor. The night difference it really big. I also own a HFW4431 with fixed focus and aperature of only 2.0 and external power ir led 9w. I got this cam for cheap 70 dollars, for no security purposes it´s for me ok.
There are many other purposes, where these cheaper ones are good to use, except security solutions
I guess this is where the security camera enthusiasts crowd has different views of good for security. These cameras are great for security purposes, as my previous cameras were garbage. I can make out details I was never able to before. I also have an alarm system and the cameras are only for deterrent. I've been burglarized before, caught the guys on cameras, and guess what, the cops couldn't find them even with their mugs on camera. So yeah, cameras = deterrent and cops are worthless (sorry if I offended any cops on here), and alarm = "deterrent from staying around after a break in."
I have lights around my perimeter so needing IR and night vision is not high on my list. The 4MP quality allows me to capture license plates easily. It's actually amazing quality in the day time and with a light source. I wish I got mine for 70, as the best I can find for the variable focal RZ is 84 each =/. For me, the superior nighttime vision is not worth 2.5x more in cost for what is a 25% improvement in IR vision (won't debate this point as the 2MP is superior for sure), which to me is really negligible. It's a cost benefit analysis for me as I'm not a IP cam enthusiast. I don't find the need for spending double or triple for IR. But to each his own. I've dealt with really bad quality cams before so these Dahua are a real eye opener. I'm sure the 2MP starlight are awesome, 2x as good perhaps, but I don't really need to find out because I'm perfectly happy with these. Cheers!
As everytime, with enough visible light the 4mp are not bad. Compared to may other cheap crap on the marked they are much better than anything you will find on Europe market.
I bought a fixed focus one. I will never do this again. It was my first try with Dahua. For outside and needed ir it's a bad decission. 84 Dollar is not much.
A varifocal has the better aperture and you can define the area as needed.
I bought a fixed focus one. I will never do this again. It was my first try with Dahua. For outside and needed ir it's a bad decission. 84 Dollar is not much.
A varifocal has the better aperture and you can define the area as needed.
nayr
IPCT Contributor
he's not getting Chinese domestic models from an official US distributer.. the IPC-HFW4431R-Z can only be bought of AliExpress or other foreign sites, so whats the problem with comparing others on the same marketplace?
International models will come with english translations unhacked, can be updated with OEM firmware, come with metal cases, and stronger encoders.. thats why they cost more.
if it was not for @cor35vet releasing hacked firmware for these cams the'd one factory reset from being Chinese language forever.. and the'd be permanently calling home to china.
International models will come with english translations unhacked, can be updated with OEM firmware, come with metal cases, and stronger encoders.. thats why they cost more.
if it was not for @cor35vet releasing hacked firmware for these cams the'd one factory reset from being Chinese language forever.. and the'd be permanently calling home to china.
@nayr
Anyway, looking closer to the IPC-HFW4431R-Z there are 2 main things why I also highly recommend not to buy them:
- chinese firmware is a no go (like all nayr mentioned)
- I have installed a HFW2421R-ZS-IRE6. It has the same body, and the IR looks as the same. In my model, the IR is ashamed for dahua. Never seen this bad coverage for ir before. It has an extreme powerful ir spot in the center about 20 degree. It overlights so much, that no digital tricks will help (wdr /blc).
@Cyph what do you really need? I/O?, Audio? which angle of view? IR is used or not?
IPC-HFW4431B-AS | Dahua Technology @130 Dollar (have this one and its ok)
IPC-HFW4431E-S | Dahua Technology @ 104 Dollar (without audio and I/O)
both fixed focus and official international products.
I don´t know from where he had his price. So its double expensive.I'm sure they're great. But I can get 4 more for 350 vs 720 for the 2MP. I don't really care to spend that much for my CCTV needs
Anyway, looking closer to the IPC-HFW4431R-Z there are 2 main things why I also highly recommend not to buy them:
- chinese firmware is a no go (like all nayr mentioned)
- I have installed a HFW2421R-ZS-IRE6. It has the same body, and the IR looks as the same. In my model, the IR is ashamed for dahua. Never seen this bad coverage for ir before. It has an extreme powerful ir spot in the center about 20 degree. It overlights so much, that no digital tricks will help (wdr /blc).
@Cyph what do you really need? I/O?, Audio? which angle of view? IR is used or not?
IPC-HFW4431B-AS | Dahua Technology @130 Dollar (have this one and its ok)
IPC-HFW4431E-S | Dahua Technology @ 104 Dollar (without audio and I/O)
both fixed focus and official international products.
Last edited:
Cyph
n3wb
- Feb 12, 2017
- 24
- 1
Checking the HFW2421R-ZS-IRE6, that one has multiple IR lights (16?). The 4431R-Z only has four IR lights and is rated at 80M (probably exaggeration, but clearly there's a change in IR that it uses).
I only need variafocal 2.8-12mm, the rest is superfluos. I will have the cameras up on my security monitor with the sound off. It will be passive only so no need for PTZ, sound, etc. The zoom and high resolution helps for when I need to track license plates. My motion light is busted so it's permanently on 24/7 so no need for IR for me at least in the front
.The two you listed can be flashed with English firmware? I suspect that it can't by the fact that it's the Chinese nomenclature naming convention. The body is different so I wonder what the difference. Yes, it's Chinese firmware. But lucky for us, we have the latest modded firmware from @cor35vet (you're the man!). The official NA version MSRP for around $500 so I'm not going to lament the fact that this is Chinese only firmware.
The PCB/hardware is identical - so no stronger encoders. The only difference I know of is one GPIO having a different voltage level on the chinese model vs. international model.
Patching that one single check in the software and it will think it is running on an international model.
Metal case is cool to have and costs more but I didn't have a problem with the plastic ones.
Being update-able doesn't make them cost more, it's just Dahuas stupid pricing policy that they can charge us more.
So yeah if you can get a camera that performs exactly the same for less money, I personally don't see a reason why not to.
http://www1.dahuasecurity.com/de/products/ipc-hfw2421r-zsvfs-ire6-6241.html (Its available with Auto (-ZS),Fixed(-VFS) ) This cam has 4 high power leds for 60m. exactly like yours. But if you don´t need IR, then it should not bother you.
All my listed cams are from dahua international. All cams you can find there are original English. When you switch to the Chinese Website you will find the ones you should better not buy.
Of course cor35vet has many modded firmwares, this is the only hope for throwing out backdoors or disabling p2p.
For reading (automated?) licence plates @nayr is your man. But forget the zoom, it´s designed as set it and forget it. Nayr has written many about it and also lot of demos for this purpose. Licence plates reading is on of the high class setups, because of the needed details and distance. I want to mention again, pixels are not the only thing, it´s often only a marketing detail.
@cor35vet , we have some messages here about not good working ones from Chinese market. My hfw4431M-AS-I1 is also one of them which works fine, maybe i had luck. Unfortunately the hdw4431EM-AS with plastic body has audio problems...
Therefore my opinion is, that the Chinese ones are often undeclared B-Stock items and the selling platform is aliexpress. But you may have luck to get very cheap ones without problems.
All my listed cams are from dahua international. All cams you can find there are original English. When you switch to the Chinese Website you will find the ones you should better not buy.
Of course cor35vet has many modded firmwares, this is the only hope for throwing out backdoors or disabling p2p.
For reading (automated?) licence plates @nayr is your man. But forget the zoom, it´s designed as set it and forget it. Nayr has written many about it and also lot of demos for this purpose. Licence plates reading is on of the high class setups, because of the needed details and distance. I want to mention again, pixels are not the only thing, it´s often only a marketing detail.
@cor35vet , we have some messages here about not good working ones from Chinese market. My hfw4431M-AS-I1 is also one of them which works fine, maybe i had luck. Unfortunately the hdw4431EM-AS with plastic body has audio problems...
Therefore my opinion is, that the Chinese ones are often undeclared B-Stock items and the selling platform is aliexpress. But you may have luck to get very cheap ones without problems.
Just a heads up: Chinas has 1.357 billion citizens.
And it's a surveillance state
They are not B Stock items and there are no problems with chinese cameras.
What do you think everyone is using in china?
And it's a surveillance state
They are not B Stock items and there are no problems with chinese cameras.
What do you think everyone is using in china?
nayr
IPCT Contributor
the cameras the government installs or provides?
Without @cor35vet's modifications they all call home to china out of the box and the capabilities to disable it are hidden from view.. so if your buying China domestic cameras, put his firmware on and lets all prey he dont get hit by a bus or something.
Without @cor35vet's modifications they all call home to china out of the box and the capabilities to disable it are hidden from view.. so if your buying China domestic cameras, put his firmware on and lets all prey he dont get hit by a bus or something.
You mean not more with all other dahua models? Maybe a result of black sheeps on aliexpress. It´s not easy to find trustful sellers on aliexpress. But i will stay, it´s an easy way to sell all crap there. If the price is low enough...
My Chinese one had been sold from Sincerity Trade co.,LTD.
@Cyph i found on aliexpress example pictures of night ir mode. Exactly the same as I have...
Cyph
n3wb
- Feb 12, 2017
- 24
- 1
IPC-HFW2421R-ZS international version I found one on Ebay for $240. The 4431, Chinese version is 1/3 the price. It looks exactly the same to me. Except the Chinese version will brick with unmodded firmware? That's one way to do price discrimination without changing the product.
Amen to that. @cor35vet, you are doing god's work. If you take donations, I'll gladly donate some of my saved money to your rainy day fund.
Amen to that. @cor35vet, you are doing god's work. If you take donations, I'll gladly donate some of my saved money to your rainy day fund.
nayr
IPCT Contributor
Quit comparing prices from China with Prices from USA, here is the International Model from china: wholesale IPC-HFW2421R-ZS-IRE6 - buy DAHUA IPC-HFW2421R-ZS-IRE6 4MP WDR IR Bullet Network Camera DH-IPC-HFW2421R-ZS-IRE6 review
$52 difference, and you get a metal camera instead of plastic with UL listing, FCC approval, so its not exactly the same
$52 difference, and you get a metal camera instead of plastic with UL listing, FCC approval, so its not exactly the same
Cyph
n3wb
- Feb 12, 2017
- 24
- 1
Never heard of CC-TV Mall. I have heard of Ebay and aliexpress though. The prices are much higher there. Around 160 on Aliexpress. So about double on Ali, triple on Ebay, or 52 more on a random website. Point taken though. For those who need the metal camera, UL listing, FCC approval... there's the option of paying more.
nayr
IPCT Contributor
uh, cctv-mall been around for eons and is a trustworthy source for importing hard to find cameras.. they were the primary source before AliExpress came on scene.
aliexpress does not carry many of these cameras; the'd rather sell you the hacked plastic version.. im sure @EMPIRETECANDY can order as many as you want; he wont touch those domestic Chinese models.
Also beware that there are leaking reports that Dahua is going to implement tougher checks on these Chinese market cameras in the future; the possibility of one day it not playing nice with international and domestic model variants, or english software is a high probability.. im sure @cor35vet can keep ahead of them, but your relying on him if/when they do try to stop these grey market cameras.
aliexpress does not carry many of these cameras; the'd rather sell you the hacked plastic version.. im sure @EMPIRETECANDY can order as many as you want; he wont touch those domestic Chinese models.
Also beware that there are leaking reports that Dahua is going to implement tougher checks on these Chinese market cameras in the future; the possibility of one day it not playing nice with international and domestic model variants, or english software is a high probability.. im sure @cor35vet can keep ahead of them, but your relying on him if/when they do try to stop these grey market cameras.
Well since it is the same hardware they should both be FCC/CE approved, for what it matters.
The $52 difference for a metal base is not worth the difference for me.
I don't want to support this price differentiating and purposefully crippling of software to gain more profit for the _exact same product_.
Or is it the english translation that costs ~30% more for every single freaking camera?
I just get more camera for my bucks by buying chinese, which again, _perform the same_.
And yeah if you brick your camera while upgrading it, because Dahua purposefully designed it this way, then you have to get your hands dirty and fix it.
Which is definitely a doable task and shouldn't prevent you from _literally saving money_.
The $52 difference for a metal base is not worth the difference for me.
I don't want to support this price differentiating and purposefully crippling of software to gain more profit for the _exact same product_.
Or is it the english translation that costs ~30% more for every single freaking camera?
I just get more camera for my bucks by buying chinese, which again, _perform the same_.
And yeah if you brick your camera while upgrading it, because Dahua purposefully designed it this way, then you have to get your hands dirty and fix it.
Which is definitely a doable task and shouldn't prevent you from _literally saving money_.
I love this discussion 
But we are hijacking the topic...
Anyway, did someone analyses the traffic of the cams with network sniffers and watched the firewall traffic? I read many about it here in this forum, but no real facts in form of conclusive evidence on every sides. The truth is a pain of internet discussions. (hopefully someone understand my english
)
Since I recovered my hdw4431em-as with an original English firmware from dahua cz ftp i had no problem to upgrade it again. I did it several times.
But we are hijacking the topic...
Anyway, did someone analyses the traffic of the cams with network sniffers and watched the firewall traffic? I read many about it here in this forum, but no real facts in form of conclusive evidence on every sides. The truth is a pain of internet discussions. (hopefully someone understand my english
)Since I recovered my hdw4431em-as with an original English firmware from dahua cz ftp i had no problem to upgrade it again. I did it several times.