Plan for Rear Yard - Feedback/Suggestions?

[PaulInMelbourne]

Have recently moved in to a newly built house in a high-density area, and I'm having some trouble figuring out camera angles and placement in our rear yard. It's further complicated in that the lower roof is easy to access via bins, fences and neighbouring roofs. Also, the fences are quite low and it's important that I don't impinge on our neighbour's privacy (I will show them snapshots with blocked out areas, but still...).

My first thought is to use turret cameras on each corner of the building, as per plan below. There is a dark narrow gravel passage along the south of the building, which has one small and relatively secure window. For that area I was thinking to mount the camera (west facing) on the roof so that it can also view the roof access via neighbour's garage.

Feedback/suggestions?

Also interested in suggestions for mounting to flat steel roof or flat steel wall cappings without penetrations.

 

[SyconsciousAu]

it's important that I don't impinge on our neighbour's privacy

If you get some 6mm lenses and use hallway mode down the side of your houses you will reduce the actual amount of your neighbours yard that you will film.

It's important to remember however that there is no right to privacy in regards to CCTV. Private activity does not include any activity engaged in outside a building, so unless you are setting up your cameras to deliberately look through their bathroom windows, you should be right. From what I can see all you will have a view of is a driveway and a garage over the fence so no issues at all.

Some neighbours might appreciate if you have footage of someone coming down their driveway too,

 

[samplenhold]

You need to make a plan as to what it is you expect to view from those positions. Just saying I want a cam here, this is the view of the alley, is not a plan. For each area of potential penetration, what do you need for video? Do you just want to see what is happening there? Do you want to get good face shots? What about during the night? Do you want audio? Do you expect someone to come in through what looks like a sliding door on pic #2 to the right?

You have little wiggle room here for mounting cams high unless you do not care to get facial features. Have you read the Cliff Notes and the WIKI?

Stating about low roof access, why mention that? Are you wanting to see if someone is up there?

Every cam has a job to do. You need to define that job's requirements. Then you pick the cam that fulfills those requirements.

 

[PaulInMelbourne]

If you get some 6mm lenses and use hallway mode down the side of your houses you will reduce the actual amount of your neighbours yard that you will film.

It's important to remember however that there is no right to privacy in regards to CCTV. Private activity does not include any activity engaged in outside a building, so unless you are setting up your cameras to deliberately look through their bathroom windows, you should be right. From what I can see all you will have a view of is a driveway and a garage over the fence so no issues at all.

Some neighbours might appreciate if you have footage of someone coming down their driveway too,

Thanks for the hallway mode tip! I was testing with a vari-focal turret and found that 12mm/47 degrees seemed to work best in all locations except the one overlooking the main yard on the north side.

I'm in Australia/Victoria, and from what I've read the privacy laws re. cameras is a bit of a grey area. But regardless, I'd like to do the right thing and be on good terms with my neighbours. I was hoping to overlook that driveway on the north side, but will ask first.

 

[PaulInMelbourne]

You need to make a plan as to what it is you expect to view from those positions. Just saying I want a cam here, this is the view of the alley, is not a plan. For each area of potential penetration, what do you need for video? Do you just want to see what is happening there? Do you want to get good face shots? What about during the night? Do you want audio? Do you expect someone to come in through what looks like a sliding door on pic #2 to the right?

Yeah that's fair. I wasn't sure how how much detail to go into, how to organise it sensibly, and whether people had the appetite to read a long ramble full of my misconceptions. If you could point me to what you would consider a good plan that would help me get started.

You have little wiggle room here for mounting cams high unless you do not care to get facial features. Have you read the Cliff Notes and the WIKI?

Yes I've spent many days in the cliff notes. I bought a Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE, which is similar to the 5231, and went around testing locations and focal lengths.

I was thinking to only mount one of the cameras high, and would forgo facial ID for that camera.

Penetrations:
There are glass sliding doors on north and east sides, with barrel locks that could be picked. There are awning windows on the ground floor that we only keep slightly open at night, and could be jimmied. Top floor awning windows are usually open 3.5 inches when sleeping at night, and could be broken into more easily.

Stating about low roof access, why mention that? Are you wanting to see if someone is up there?

It's very easy for someone to get onto the lower roof, so I'm worried that they could easily disable or steal the cameras without being seen, and they'll also have access to top floor windows. I'm thinking it would be good to have at least the roof access points covered.

Every cam has a job to do. You need to define that job's requirements. Then you pick the cam that fulfills those requirements.

I'm struggling with the requirements and knowing when enough is enough. Current thinking is that cameras facing the northwest fence need to identify, whereas the other cameras need only detect as access is through other properties. But if it's only a few more dollars to get observe or recognize, I would spend the money.

 

[SyconsciousAu]

But if it's only a few more dollars to get observe or recognize, I would spend the money.

You can go cheaper on the cameras that just need to observe, but spend more money on the cameras that you want to use for ID.

 

[samplenhold]

That Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE is the perfect cam for you to define your requirements. Set it up on a test rig as described in the Cliff Notes. This is mine:


Check out the view in day and night. Walk it so that you can get a feel for the ability to ID a face from the location.

So what is a cam plan? You make the decision based on the merits of the cam satisfying the requirements that you make for that view in your plan. You have to make a plan. Say you wanted to buy a house. There are obvious requirements that all houses should have, like a roof, locking doors, electricity, you get the idea. But you also have other requirements that are specific to your personal needs. Like maybe 4 bedrooms, two car garage, three and a half baths, etc. Well the same goes for your camera plan. I live on a corner of a 'T' intersection. I have two LPR cams, one covering the intersection and the other looking down the road. They give me great plate caps even at night But they do not give me info on the vehicle, especially at night. So I decided to put a cam covering the intersection to cap every vehicle that goes by.

Requirements other than a Dahua POE IP cam that was under $250:

Needs to be able to run in full color at night overlooking the intersection such that I can identify make, model, color, any damage/stickers, and any other identifying parameters from stopped or moving vehicles. This has to be able to be done in a distance range of 40-80 feet. Would be nice to get plates, but I do not expect to get that in low light from moving vehicles since I have dedicated LPR cams for that. Need to be able to get a good description of people walking through the corner 24/7.

So I had three cams I had bought for installation in other parts of my home and tested them in the location I wanted to put this cam. One was an older cam that I had replaced from my driveway. This was an HDW5231R-ZE which is a 2MP on a 2/2.8" sensor with a 2.7-13.5mm varifocal lens. This was the top dog for low light two years ago when I bought it. By using this cam in that position, I learned that I needed more zoom than 13.5mm. I also needed better night color performance. I had a T5442TM-AS in 2.8mm fixed lens that I was about to install covering my front door and porch. This is the fixed lens turret brother of the Z4E. This test told me that while the 2.8mm was way to wide a view (which I knew already) the 4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor gave me great color night performance that allowed me to see all of my requirements. So that lead me to getting the Dahua B5442E-Z4E.

This is the thought process many of us use to decide on a cam.

 

[PaulInMelbourne]

No argument there, my problem is deciding on my requirements for this rear area with the roof access problem.

BTW, this is just 1/4 of the plan. We have two houses side by side, and I'm up to 14 cameras. I didn't make a rig, but got up on ladders and recorded the camera at all the different angles, positions, and focal lengths, and printed out number plates for the street/driveway tests. I feel quite comfortable with the requirements, cameras and positions for 3/4 of the property.

It's this last 1/4 of the property that's got me unsure.

If went facial identification in that whole area, I suppose I'd be looking at 7 or 8 $160 cameras (eg. IPC-T5442TM-AS). If I went the other way, to detect without allowing someone to get behind a camera undetected, I'd be looking at 5 $125 cameras (eg IPC-T5241TM-AS ). $1,280 vs $625. I'm not sure whether I could use PTZ - I think it would really creep out the neighbours as it's difficult to see if it's pointing at you.

I guess I am thinking aloud and hoping someone will shoot me down when I make a bad assumption.

 

[samplenhold]

If went facial identification in that whole area,

You do not have to do the whole area. Think about choke or access points. If you were a perp and was trying to gain access, where would you enter the area to do so? Those are the points that you would focus the cams on that you want to be able to ID faces.

It would really be a good idea to use a test rig and walk it at night. At least prior to running cable and mounting cams. Without a proper test, you run the risk of not getting the view that works.

 

[weigle2]

Cameras would be in addition to having a really good home alarm system. Especially with all the glass you have, on both floors. With all the surrounding fencing, a burglar can work pretty much in private to gain access on the first floor.

 

[PaulInMelbourne]

You do not have to do the whole area. Think about choke or access points. If you were a perp and was trying to gain access, where would you enter the area to do so? Those are the points that you would focus the cams on that you want to be able to ID faces.

If they don't use neighbouring properties to gain access, then yeah there are some choke points where I can get good facials. If they use neighbouring properties then they cat get in from any direction. I don't know how likely it is for burglars to come through neighbouring properties in this area.

It would really be a good idea to use a test rig and walk it at night. At least prior to running cable and mounting cams. Without a proper test, you run the risk of not getting the view that works.

If I'm using 4MP starlight turret cameras, I feel my locations are dictated to the corners of the building to avoid blind spots and get cross coverage, and that to improve facial ID I would need to add additional cameras in between, which I'd prefer to do at a later time as I'm up to 14 cameras (for 2 adjacent houses).

My wiring was done during the build, which isn't perfect but is more or less at the corners needed.

Cameras would be in addition to having a really good home alarm system. Especially with all the glass you have, on both floors. With all the surrounding fencing, a burglar can work pretty much in private to gain access on the first floor.

Yes it's in place already. And yes, being able to work for as long as they like on the locks on the ground floor has me worried. Eventually I'd like to figure out how to get the external cameras/blue iris to trigger chirps/warning sounds and flashes in the alarm's siren.

 

[nosnim]

Yes it's in place already. And yes, being able to work for as long as they like on the locks on the ground floor has me worried. Eventually I'd like to figure out how to get the external cameras/blue iris to trigger chirps/warning sounds and flashes in the alarm's siren.

I think most criminals would not even bother with the locks. They would just break the glass, wait a bit and see if anyone notices/responds, then enter. Look into security tint (3M) for glass security applications. A good monitored alarm service (ADT) with glass break, motion, and door/window sensors would be a good start too. Dogs are another good layer to add if possible.