Planned obsolescence on cheap IP cameras?

[Broachoski]

I now use only Dahua, Loryta and Amcrest cameras but in the beginning I tried several cheap cameras.
This morning at 3:05 and 3:07 am I had 2 identical no name $27.00 cameras from Shenzahen China to peter out. I replaced them with some Loryta 2mp Starlights from Andy.
Since they both played out within 2 minutes my paranoia kicked in. They were running on Blue Iris and isolated from the outside world.
Later diagnosis found they had reverted back to DHCP. and Onvif Dev Mgr found they had reset back to default 192.168.1.xx. I had them operating on 10.0.0.x The passwords did not reset to default as it accepted my assigned pwd.
These cameras worked flawlessly for 2 years and a few days.
Could this have been planned obsolescence?

 

[mat200]

I now use only Dahua, Loryta and Amcrest cameras but in the beginning I tried several cheap cameras.
This morning at 3:05 and 3:07 am I had 2 identical no name $27.00 cameras from Shenzahen China to peter out. I replaced them with some Loryta 2mp Starlights from Andy.
Since they both played out within 2 minutes my paranoia kicked in. They were running on Blue Iris and isolated from the outside world.
Later diagnosis found they had reverted back to DHCP. and Onvif Dev Mgr found they had reset back to default 192.168.1.xx. I had them operating on 10.0.0.x The passwords did not reset to default as it accepted my assigned pwd.
These cameras worked flawlessly for 2 years and a few days.
Could this have been planned obsolescence?

also it is possible they got a firmware update and rebooted back to factory settings...

 

[Swampledge]

How would they get a firmware update if they were isolated from the outside world on a different network?

 

[TonyR]

If U.S.-based Apple would do this below, I wouldn't put it past a China-based company to do as you suspect ==>> Apple Agrees To Pay $113 Million To Settle 'Batterygate' Case Over iPhone Slowdowns, November 18, 2020

Excerpt:

"...Apple on Wednesday agreed to pay $113 million to settle consumer fraud lawsuits brought by more than 30 states over allegations that it secretly slowed down old iPhones, a controversy that became known as "batterygate."​

​

Apple, the most valuable company in the world, acted deceptively by hiding the shutdown and slowdown issues, according to the court filing."​

 

[Old Timer]

Way back when I started playing with cameras, I did some questionable things to save money. This one bit me in the butt.

I had some cheep chinese cameras i had set up with static IP's on the 1.xxx sub net, but running on my main network, 10.xxx.
It was kind of a poor mans "VLAN", to keep them from accessing the gateway(10.1).
Over a couple months I had cameras randomly switch back to DHCP, receive an IP 10.XX and get access to the internet.

It took me a bit to figure out what was going on. I ended up running more cables, and setting up a separate network
like I should have in the first place. Lesson learned, keep the cameras on a separate network or separate VLAN!
This was before I found good cameras, and IP cam talk

 

[mat200]

How would they get a firmware update if they were isolated from the outside world on a different network?

Hi @Swampledge

"Later diagnosis found they had reverted back to DHCP and Onvif Dev Mgr found they had reset back to default 192.168.1.xx "

Curious, were the cameras on the internet once they reverted back to DHCP?

Interesting data indeed, and a good opportunity to dig more info what exactly happened.

 

[Swampledge]

Hi @Swampledge

"Later diagnosis found they had reverted back to DHCP and Onvif Dev Mgr found they had reset back to default 192.168.1.xx "

Curious, were the cameras on the internet once they reverted back to DHCP?

Interesting data indeed, and a good opportunity to dig more info what exactly happened.

If you were concerned that this might happen, it might be good to set up an IP reservation for that device, and block its Internet access, since it sounds like it “un-isolated” itself.

 

[Broachoski]

Swampledge , I know now what happened when you mentioned IP reservation. I recently changed routers. The original was set 10.0.0.1 and i had reserved all my camera IP's along with port blocking. The new router had default 192.168.1.1. Still was not connected to my main router with internet. Maybe the cameras detected this change and switched to DHCP.
I truly appreciate everyone's input.

 

[samplenhold]

If you were concerned that this might happen, it might be good to set up an IP reservation for that device, and block its Internet access, since it sounds like it “un-isolated” itself.

This is why using the dual NIC option to isolate the cam network from everything else is a good idea.

In my case, the cams and the POE switches are PHYSICALLY ISOLATED from the rest of my LAN, including the router and modem. Even if the cams reverted back to DHCP and they changed their IP subnet back to 1.xxx, they still have no physical path to the internet. What I would see is that those cams would drop off BI but they would still not be able to connect to the internet.

 

[Swampledge]

This is why using the dual NIC option to isolate the cam network from everything else is a good idea.

In my case, the cams and the POE switches are PHYSICALLY ISOLATED from the rest of my LAN, including the router and modem. Even if the cams reverted back to DHCP and they changed their IP subnet back to 1.xxx, they still have no physical path to the internet. What I would see is that those cams would drop off BI but they would still not be able to connect to the internet.

Has anyone here heard of the “Eli Whitney Syndrome?” The only reference to it that I found on the net attributed it to Pat Bedard, race car driver and longtime writer/editor for Car and Driver magazine, which is almost certainly where I heard of it. Eli Whitney Syndrome (I’ll call it EWS)refers to an innate fear of any device whose operation cannot be understood simply by looking at it. During my working career, I encountered many mechanical engineers who refused to even try to understand how electricity and electronics work, I assume because of EWS.

When you write that your cams and POE switches are PHYSICALLY ISOLATED from the internet, those of us susceptible to EWS who see Ethernet cables connected to electronic boxes are naturally skeptical about the effectiveness of that isolation. The possibility that a camera will slip into a disguise (changing its IP address) to look like a different device is a very good argument for isolating the camera network. I’d be more curious to know, though, if it changed it’s MAC address, which I previously didn’t think possible, but now wonder about.

I‘m also curious why people trust their foreign manufactured NVR’s to access the internet and trust the NVR to keep cameras from the same manufacturer isolated.

 

[samplenhold]

I’d be more curious to know, though, if it changed it’s MAC address, which I previously didn’t think possible, but now wonder about.

As far as I know, the unit cannot spontaneously change it's MAC address. However, software can spoof MAC addresses. I suppose one could change a MAC address.

Look, do what you like.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Maybe I'm missing something but if all the cameras and switches are on a second NIC in the BI PC and the PC does not route anything, if a camera changes its' IP address for some strange reason it will not get anywhere, not even be recognized on the NIC basically. No traffic from that camera will be passed from the camera NIC to the LAN NIC at all. If you're not convinced that is enough simply make the camera network and PC totally separate from the rest of your LAN by not connecting that PC to the LAN at all.

 

[Swampledge]

….

Look, do what you like.

I hope that neither you nor anyone else who has segregated their cameras from their main LAN think that I am questioning your decision or wisdom in so doing. I am not questioning that. I sincerely appreciate the knowledge, opinions, and experience that are shared so freely here. We all make decisions on our setups based on what we define as threats and how we see the cost/benefit ratio.