POE Cables considered to be Good or degraded if they stop working unless a booster is added ?

[CameraDudeGuy]

ADT installed a 8 POE Camera system. The 8 POE camera are connected to the NVR which has POE ports.

NVR worked fine for years, but slowly cameras stop working one by one. Until half the Camera stop working.

The only way in which they can get these Cameras sort of working, is to add a POE booster switch in order to get these Cameras power/signal.

My question is if these POE cables that no longer work in the NVR as originally setup, would the cables be considered degraded, or is the fact they will still go online with a booster considered working?

I'm not sure if this is a grey area or not. Is it like buying a high end $10,000 coffee maker and having it repair under warranty by using duct tape to attach a $10 Walmart Mr.Coffee to it and saying you got it making coffee again.

What do you guys think of this situation? Are these POE cables degraded or not?

 

[wittaj]

I would lean more towards the POE power supply of the NVR is going out and isn't putting out the same amount of power.

This is a common failure point in NVRs.

You simply then take the cameras off the NVR POE ports and connect them to a POE switch and then connect that switch to the NVR WAN/LAN port. You will then have to do some tinkering in the NVR to get it to recognize the cameras as they are probably on a different subnet than the WAN/LAN.

 

[CameraDudeGuy]

I would lean more towards the POE power supply of the NVR is going out and isn't putting out the same amount of power.

This is a common failure point in NVRs.

You simply then take the cameras off the NVR POE ports and connect them to a POE switch, and then connect that switch to the NVR WAN/LAN port. You will then have to do some tinkering in the NVR to get it to recognize the cameras, as they are probably on a different subnet than the WAN/LAN.

I was it was a bad NVR or NVR power supply, except they swapped it out for a new one and it had the same problems.

I think the POE switch/booster has a lot more power than the NVR POE ports on the back.

The thing is that it worked for years on the NVR and then the cameras all started to go out one by one. So I was thinking those POE lines are going bad and requiring more and more power to keep at the same level as when they were first installed.

I think the cable's resistance is increasing as time goes on. It was reached a resistance for half the Cameras that the NVR can no longer supply the power required to turn the Cameras on however the external switch/booster can still turn on the Cameras. So are these lines still considered good or bad for insurances claim purposes?

 

[wittaj]

Leaving info out LOL.

Well we have seen the POEs go bad on the cameras as well.

Of course it could be the cable going bad. The only way to know would be to run a known good cable from the NVR to a camera and see if it works. If it does then it is the existing cable or one of the connectors going bad. Most would re-terminate the ends first before replacing.

As far as insurance, you are on your own LOL. I don't think most would cover that and if they did it is probably less than the deductible.

 

[CameraDudeGuy]

This is ADT insurance, and it covers new cameras if they go bad or new cables if they go bad.

My question is if these cables considered bad when they worked for years off the NVR but now the NVR no longer is able to power them but a booster switch can.

I guess that was my question if these cables are considered degraded or bad? Google said degraded cable is " reduced mechanical and electrical properties. " Which is true since the NVR use to power these Cameras for years and have stopped.

I would like to know if it's considered appropriate to ask for the outdoor cameras to be replaced due to this. Don't outdoor rated POE CAT 6 cables have a rated lifespan?

 

[mat200]

ADT installed a 8 POE Camera system. The 8 POE camera are connected to the NVR which has POE ports.

NVR worked fine for years, but slowly cameras stop working one by one. Until half the Camera stop working.

The only way in which they can get these Cameras sort of working, is to add a POE booster switch in order to get these Cameras power/signal.

My question is if these POE cables that no longer work in the NVR as originally setup, would the cables be considered degraded, or is the fact they will still go online with a booster considered working?

I'm not sure if this is a grey area or not. Is it like buying a high end $10,000 coffee maker and having it repair under warranty by using duct tape to attach a $10 Walmart Mr.Coffee to it and saying you got it making coffee again.

What do you guys think of this situation? Are these POE cables degraded or not?

Hi CameraDudeGuy

What do we know about the cables ?

 

[wittaj]

Yes it is a possibility, but there are several points of failure. It could be the NVR that you said they replaced and still does it, it could be the POE of the cameras going out, it could be the termination points of the cables with some corrosion and a simple re-terminate fixes it, or perhaps the cable.

If they are outdoor cameras, what is the likelihood they actually did proper waterproofing? I bet they didn't use dielectric grease so it could be the connectors with some corrosion.

The lifespan of the outdoor rated cables is dependent on the manufacturer - we have seen some last and still going and others have had them deteriorate after a few years.

If you are paying ADT a monthly fee and it covers stuff like this, then go at it with them and see what you can get them to replace. But like I said, most here would troubleshoot and not just blindly start replacing stuff. But if you are paying them, then it is up to them and you as to what steps they take. It may be cheaper for them to simply replace everything than to re-terminate cables and try different cables, etc.

We are simply spitballing here without knowing specifics.

 

[CameraDudeGuy]

Hi CameraDudeGuy

What do we know about the cables ?

They are outdoor rated CAT6 cables but with no conduit. They run in the craw space under my house attached to the ceiling of the crawlspace until they exit drilled holes though the concrete. Once outside, they run underground to various cameras located in my backyard. Some have to travel some distance, but within the specs of what you can do POE under.
They worked fine for many years but eventually, one by one, they stopped working until 50% of the Cameras would no longer turn on while connected to the NVR

The booster/switch which I believe has a lot more power per port is the only thing strong enough to get them to turn on.

So they will work with booster but not work under NVR as they originally did for years. I am trying to figure if these cables are considered degraded or meet the definition of degraded.

 

[TonyR]

Do you know for sure the cables are not CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum) ?
Such cable is especially bad when POE is applied and they do get worse over time and should never be used to begin with.

 

[wittaj]

And like I said, it could be the NVR not putting out the required power (which you have since said you tested with a new NVR) or it could be the cameras simply requiring more power as the POE dies on the camera or it could be bad cables/ends of cables.

You won't find anyone here that will 100% tell you it is the cables. We don't know what the outdoor rating was, the material, was it CCA or pure copper, etc. and no other troubleshooting other than trying a different NVR was done.

The first thing we would do is test with a known good cable. If it still exhibits the same problem, then we know it isn't the cable but the camera.

If the known good cable works, then we know it is either the cable or the termination point. At which point we would simply snip off the ends and put new ones on. If that doesn't fix it, then we replace the cable.

So those are the steps. Anything else we provide is just running circles with what-ifs. If you want to know for sure, then troubleshoot and rule things out.

 

[Teken]

I’m going to give my two cents worth of knowledge and best practices / trouble shooting.

As lots of good information has already been provided but wanted to stress a few key points for the benefit of others who may ask the same.

Wire: The cable must be solid copper and 23 AWG. So rated for its installation and final application such as direct burial, shielded, in conduit if required.

RJ45: Do not use pass through connectors as this leaves the copper ends exposed to the elements. Use the correct size applicable to the wire diameter in use!

Everyday so called professionals are wondering how come X cable doesn’t fit in Y connector?!?

Because the dummy is using a CAT5e connector vs CAT6 (1.23 mm) trying to shoe horn a larger diameter wire into a smaller hole!

Dielectric: As others have said this must be applied and used especially if pass through connectors are used! Using this cheap chemical will inhibit moisture, corrosion, and promote electrical connectivity.

Certify: It’s pretty rare to see anyone in the DIY or SMB ask and pay for wire certification. In large part most trunk slammers can’t or won’t spend the money to purchase a fluke. Regardless, anyone with a DMM & basic cable tester can at least do the same basic tests!

Measure the resistance and compare it to the expected cable length table. Using the cable tester will confirm correct termination, pairs, and no shorts.

Ping: Anyone with a computer can ping the end device. The key thing is to watch how long it takes and whether the replies increase in time or time out.

Data / Throughput: There are dozens of ways and software methods to see the data streaming back and forth on an end device. That can be from a smart application, PC, switch, to firewall.

All the above is 90% of what a $15-25K Fluke cable certified meter would do to!

More expensive cable testers can measure the POE voltage output and draw. This is important because it doesn’t matter what the output is! It’s what is seen at the end device that matters. Hence why you can’t just take what the switch says / NVR!

You measure at the end because it will take into account the NVR / Switch -> Cable -> Camera.

If you see below 40 VDC at the end device and the NVR says 54 VDC you have a problem!

As it relates to any so called Boosters. These devices are band aids for problems that exist in the infrastructure and lack of planning and understanding basic electricity (Ohms Law) and not following industry standards and best practices.

I can assure you if the information stated here is used you’ll know the what, where, and why!

 

[nabman]

Somehow I suspect the terminators on the cables. Cables are made of metal and I think that their ability to conduct is unlikely to vary by a magnitude that is noticeable.

Maybe the resistance at terminators somewhere may have gone up? Moisture/corrosion perhaps?

 

[IAmATeaf]

Are ADT supplying the booster/switch that resolves the issue? If they are then why worry about it? Use the system until if it is cable related it stops working/breaks?