PoE requirements for HIKvision

[Jim W]

Hi Guys
I'm just researching the PoE options for my Hikvision install. I found this on Ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-port-POE-power-over-ethernet-injector-for-IP-Camera-Access-Points-EM-12-/310994886185?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item4868bd5e29

Camera power supply states 12 VDC ± 10%, PoE (802.3af) which is 48volts on the PoE and 12volt on the DC power
is this correct ?

 

[fenderman]

yes that is correct, it will work, would i trust it with my cams, no...

 

[icerabbit]

:dejection:

I like to save a buck / dollar / pound / ... too, but when it comes to $$$ IP cameras or computers or other electronics for that matter; I go with something reliable, enclosed, guaranteed to get the job done. Without risking to short circuit or setting the house on fire.

Yes, you can import this kind of stuff directly or off of Ebay. Yes, if you get some other thing, at a minimum it is going to have something like that on the inside.

Doesn't mean it is the smartest thing to do.

 

[Jim W]

My problem is that I have 4 buildings a long way apart so I'd need 4 x PoE switches which start at $80 for the DLink multiport unit or I could use the single port units which are about $30 -$40 plus power supplies.Bit of a minefield out there in PoE land

 

[icerabbit]

Yes, it is a busy market and I apologize for being a bit harsh, but to me it is about reliability and safety.

I thought tp-link started at $40 for a 4 port poe 8 port switch. tl-sf1008p

Some people have used regular switches and 4 or 8 port poe injector strips, but that's most cost effective if you have spare switches and either have a batch of short cables or make your own cables.

A single camera can be powered from a $10 poe wall wart (chinese import, ebay)

And I wouldn't mind picking up something name brand used on ebay, but given the other investements involved in surveillance, having a safe and reliable name brand poe switch/power supply with a year or two of warranty, seems the way to go for me. And wiring direct from a poe switch keeps things one step simpler.

How far apart are the buildings? they all have 110 and ethernet?

 

[Jim W]

The gigabit version is this

Here

and then there are these injectors

Here


I have 240v and rj45 cable in all buildings and I may get away with just one Dlink gigabit switch in the middle building and then use DC adapters for the others or maybe give the cheap 4 port a try -just need to find a 48v power supply, I emailed the seller to see what they use.If I didn't have gigabit switches already the DLinks would be a no brainer

 

[icerabbit]

Yes, the equivalent gigabit tplink model is TL-SG1008P

Many people have used that type of strip injector to power a series of existing cameras using an existing switch for data.

You can look also for this style per camera
http://wrightwoodsurveillance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=386

Downside being that you need an outlet per camera, and you still have to run the ethernet. But it may worthwhile if you have plenty of outlets (or can add them cheaply) and don't need extra switches or new ones with POE.

All buildings having power and ethernet is most of the battle covered

 

[Jim W]

Indeed I have many options and I do like reliable quality stuff but sometimes I just can't justify certain options from an expense point of view but time is money so you have to take into account the ease of install and maintenance.
I'm looking at buying some older adsl wireless modems which can be set into bridge mode and have gigabit ports and also a usb port which I believe can be used as a NAS storage with addition of a usb hard drive or pen drive. These used routers are plentiful and can be had for under £10 and if the HIKvision camera works well on the wireless with only 5 metre distance to deal with then I may run them like that

 

[icerabbit]

That's a different idea; running a series of re-purposed modems in bridge mode with and a usb hdd/pen drive for storage in each building?

Why run modems in bridge mode, in each building? Are they going to get proper addressing? Why not a simple switch?

Then where does the " if the hikvision works well on the wireless with 5m to cover" come in?

I'm confused there. We were talking POE ... now it sounds like you want to deploy wifi cameras? Or have a wifi bridge?

And, the modems do nothing to solve the POE issue.

Anyhow, the decentralized modem & storage idea doesn't jive for me with keeping it simple. Having a centralized overview and storage location for all cameras. One router, an nvr somewhere on the network for live viewing and recording + playback, going through a series of lines to local switches with POE to the cameras.

Plus, if there's one thing about internet modems, in the field, they seem to need a periodic reset to get customers back online. Whether the ISP or the modem is to blame, no-one tells, ... but give consideration to having more complexity and points of failure. Vs having a simpler setup that's easier to maintain and troubleshoot.

Of course that all depends on importance of live viewing, recording data, budget, practical considerations, etc. but I think there should be a happy medium. Brain storming and re-purposing is good, but I get a sense that time, effort and complexity is introduced where it isn't needed.

Maybe our resident network guru nayr will chime in.

 

[Jim W]

The router thing is going off topic sorry I was looking to upgrade my old Linksys router and stumbled across an article on how they can be used as a WiFi access point , gigabit switch and NAS if set to bridge mode I'll buy one and play then let you know
I was scouting the property and I can get good coverage of most areas from one building and so long as the PoE does work down a 100 metre cable like they say then all good. I'm a bit concerned that the PIR sensor on the hikvision camera will be poor and have low range like some of the pir security lights I have

 

[icerabbit]

Yes, certain routers can be re-purposed as switches, with a different firmware flash. Same thing with modems, some can be put into bridge mode, to have the router as a smarter appliance right behind them do all the heavy lifting. I just didn't think that putting flashed modems in buildings was going to help you achieve your goal. But you may have meant routers instead of modems, hence my confusion.

I understand, there's lots of options and ideas, but you have to make sure you don't shoot yourself in the foot going down a certain path, wasting time, effort and money on something you end up regretting; straying from the primary goal. Centralized live view and recording.

Originally I was going to dedicate a separate ethernet network to surveillance for my property, and split the surveillance network into three physical segments ... so I'd have to only run one cable to strategic point A B and C, then have a POE access point there that would serve 2-3-4 cameras each. All things considered, even with cost factored out (more POE switches vs more and longer cables), I figured it was needlessly complex and harder to troubleshoot. There is value and saved frustration and aggravation in keeping things as simple and fool-/failproof as possible.

Your setup with multiple structures on a single property is by default going to be more complex and involved than a simple home, so don't introduce extra complexity.

 

[Jim W]

I bought a Linksys 320N wireless router and configured it to work as a gigabit switch,WAP and NAS, there was no firmware changes needed just set to bridged mode,changed it's IP, set DHCP to relay to my main router - works fine - not bad for under £20, I just bought two more off Ebay for less than £10 each.
For PoE I'll be getting a couple of these
Here

Ubiquiti 48v I might try and get some discount on 5 or at least get the cloverleaf plug leads thrown in

 

[nayr]

okay here's my thoughts..

Used is okay if its old carrier grade equipment, its still got a long life ahead and was built better than any brand new Chinese consumer crap I promise.

You have two basic routes, If you already have a very nice Gigabit switch that has ample ports (if you dont you should!) you can get a PoE Midspan.. Its like one big power injector and the carrier grade ones are managed so you get features like remotely restarting hardware and mebe a watchdog to ping your IP camera and reset power if it stops responding!

Here is a 12 port one off ebay for ~$50 shipped, not a bad deal.. you should be able to score 16-24 port midspans for less than $100 and use your existing nice switch..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PowerDsine-4012-Power-over-Ethernet-Midspan-12-Port-Redundant-POE-Injector-w-MGT-/161418217283?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2595468743

Otherwords get a really nice switch with PoE built in and dont skimp on the quality, again used is okay if your going for good equipment, switches dont wear out and last forever if given good power.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Linksys-Cisco-SRW208P-Ethernet-8-Port-2-GB-Ports-Switch-w-WebView-PoE-/

Okay so you dont need 8-10 PoE ports?
Here is a very nice used 6 port midspan for $40 shipped, im sure the rackmount can be discarded if you dont want it: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PowerDsine-3006-PoE-6-Port-Power-Injector-PD-3006-AC-with-Rack-Mount-Brackets-/221524736819?pt=US_Network_Switch_Power_Supplies&hash=item3393e73b33

 

[Jim W]

That's all looks nice !
My problem is the layout of the property where a centralised PoE controller and gigaswitch cannot be implemented and oh how I wish it could !
So I'm stuck with having to use multiple smaller devices although now you've pointed out what's available I'll look out for it

You have two basic routes, If you already have a very nice Gigabit switch that has ample ports (if you dont you should!) you can get a PoE Midspan.. Its like one big power injector and the carrier grade ones are managed so you get features like remotely restarting hardware and mebe a watchdog to ping your IP camera and reset power if it stops responding!

That's over my head !

 

[Jim W]

I been going through the network cables tidying/ labeling and installed four Linksys WAP's , I hope the power supplies are good quality as I lost a couple of cheap gigaswitches due to bad 9v AC adapters. Just waiting on my Hikvision to arrive so I can play with PoE , probably buy a decent IEEE 802.3at unit for safety reason as I think they run a test on the cable/equipment before firing the full 48v down the line ?

 

[nayr]

Yes, it wont harm a non PoE device to plug into an active (802.3xx or others) PoE outlet.. a passive PoE outlet on the other hand should not be used with anything other than the device it was designed for.

technically your camera applies a very specific amount of resistance on an unused pair via ethernet port, the PoE power supply detects this when its plugged in and begins a signaling process to apply power and turn the device on. Non-PoE devices will never apply any resistance to this unused (floating) pair so they wont ever get the power turned on.. Completely safe for all network devices.

Passive PoE always applies power regardless what its plugged into, and runs at varying voltages (12v/24v/48v) so one must be careful.

even more technical: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_Ethernet#Powering_devices

 

[Jim W]

Yes I read a few articles on the subject and my plan is to buy a decent supply for testing and once the everything is deemed OK I can put in a passive unit.
I like devices with red warning LED's !

 

[stress1ner]

okay here's my thoughts..

Used is okay if its old carrier grade equipment, its still got a long life ahead and was built better than any brand new Chinese consumer crap I promise.

You have two basic routes, If you already have a very nice Gigabit switch that has ample ports (if you dont you should!) you can get a PoE Midspan.. Its like one big power injector and the carrier grade ones are managed so you get features like remotely restarting hardware and mebe a watchdog to ping your IP camera and reset power if it stops responding!

Here is a 12 port one off ebay for ~$50 shipped, not a bad deal.. you should be able to score 16-24 port midspans for less than $100 and use your existing nice switch..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PowerDsine-4012-Power-over-Ethernet-Midspan-12-Port-Redundant-POE-Injector-w-MGT-/161418217283?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2595468743

Otherwords get a really nice switch with PoE built in and dont skimp on the quality, again used is okay if your going for good equipment, switches dont wear out and last forever if given good power.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Linksys-Cisco-SRW208P-Ethernet-8-Port-2-GB-Ports-Switch-w-WebView-PoE-/

Okay so you dont need 8-10 PoE ports?
Here is a very nice used 6 port midspan for $40 shipped, im sure the rackmount can be discarded if you dont want it: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PowerDsine-3006-PoE-6-Port-Power-Injector-PD-3006-AC-with-Rack-Mount-Brackets-/221524736819?pt=US_Network_Switch_Power_Supplies&hash=item3393e73b33

Hello i know its an old thread, but i was curious if you know about how much power do the midspan 6024 uses. it would be on 24/7, also it is very loud can the fans be disabled i opened it and they seem to put out very little air and they seem pointless?