PoE Splitter/Adapter of choice to power IR illuminator?

[biggen]

As said it can only be a camera or cable issue. I’d run the known WORKING camera a few days on your long cable run and see how it does. If you don’t get any issues with it then it looks more like a camera issue.

I still think you are really pushing the boundaries. You have a very convoluted run of cabling and are pushing past the 802.3af power standard so there are lots of pitfalls where problems can exist.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Out of curiosity, is that cable run in conduit or direct burial?

 

[105437]

Out of curiosity, is that cable run in conduit or direct burial?

The run to the mailbox is in conduit from the house dmarc. I used direct burial cable, there is water in the conduit.

 

[sebastiantombs]

I asked because you can solve this one of two ways. Assuming it's 1/2" conduit, at least, you can pull a separate cable for the IR, either two conductor for DC or another CAT and use the PoE splitter probably successfully to run the IR. You could pull out the CAT and replace it with 12 gauge THHN and run AC out there, then use a local switch and dedicated RF link instead, or even pull a fiber cable along with the AC power wires and use SFP adapters.

 

[105437]

Well, the camera at the mailbox just went offline. Arghhh...

 

[105437]

Well, the camera at the mailbox just went offline. Arghhh...

I may have found something on my Unifi PoE switch. I looked at the port configuration for the mailbox camera and found that it auto-negotiated to 1Gbps FDX. That likely happened because of the Mikrotik GPeR PoE extender since all of my other cameras auto-negotiated to 100Mbps FDX. I manually changed the configuration to 100Mbps FDX for that port. We'll see how it goes.

 

[biggen]

Link speed shouldn’t matter. It will auto negotiate to the slowest speed between the switch and next end point.

 

[105437]

Link speed shouldn’t matter. It will auto negotiate to the slowest speed between the switch and next end point.

The port negotiated a link speed of 1Gbps with the PoE extender. I was assuming that it was having to constantly renegotiate down to 100Mbps with the camera. Apparently my assumption was wrong because the camera went offline overnight. I can get it to work again by unplugging the Cat6 but it seems that eventually it will go offline.

I'm starting to wonder if the cable being submersed in water in the conduit is actually part of the problem. The conduit is down hill all the way to the sweep 90 that brings it to the surface. I would imagine there are several feet of water at the end of the conduit run.

 

[sebastiantombs]

If you used direct burial rated cable, gel filled, the water shouldn't be a problem. On the other hand if you have freezing temperatures I'd look into where that water s getting in...problems in the future to say the least.

 

[biggen]

The port negotiated a link speed of 1Gbps with the PoE extender. I was assuming that it was having to constantly renegotiate down to 100Mbps with the camera. Apparently my assumption was wrong because the camera went offline overnight. I can get it to work again by unplugging the Cat6 but it seems that eventually it will go offline.

I'm starting to wonder if the cable being submersed in water in the conduit is actually part of the problem. The conduit is down hill all the way to the sweep 90 that brings it to the surface. I would imagine there are several feet of water at the end of the conduit run.

The link between the switch and extender is 1Gbps and the link between the extender and the camera is 100Mbps. Each link is negotiated separately and as is standard for ethernet devices.

If you had water intrusion into the cable jacket itself on a permanent basis, then the link would probably never work. Since you are using direct burial, then it should be protected from water. So in my opinion, I don't think it's that. I believe its a combination of being over 100 meters and the inclusion of the extenders, power barrel connectors, etc...

There are dedicated PoE extenders you can use (Ethernet Extender, POE Powered Ethernet Extension, Gigabit Ethernet Extender, Cat5 Extension, POE, POE Plus) but I'd still not power an IR device down there on the same cable as the further you extend the cable, the less power available unless you move up to a 802.3at switch. You need to run a separate cable for the external IR.

Did you crimp any of your own RJ45 connectors in this run anywhere or are they all pre-made?

 

[105437]

Thanks for the replies. I brought the camera back online this morning and started a persistent ping that I have been monitoring. No dropped packets and all replies <1ms. Not sure what takes the camera offline.

 

[105437]

If you used direct burial rated cable, gel filled, the water shouldn't be a problem. On the other hand if you have freezing temperatures I'd look into where that water s getting in...problems in the future to say the least.

I know where the water is coming from. I'm going to try and use a leaf blower at the pull box at the top of the hill to blow out the downhill portion of the conduit. If that works I'll use some plumbers putty or something to plug the hole where water is entering.

 

[105437]

See my comments below...

The link between the switch and extender is 1Gbps and the link between the extender and the camera is 100Mbps. Each link is negotiated separately and as is standard for ethernet devices.
Should I set the port back to Auto-Negotiate?

There are dedicated PoE extenders you can use (Ethernet Extender, POE Powered Ethernet Extension, Gigabit Ethernet Extender, Cat5 Extension, POE, POE Plus) but I'd still not power an IR device down there on the same cable as the further you extend the cable, the less power available unless you move up to a 802.3at switch. You need to run a separate cable for the external IR.
Can you recommend an extender to try that could be better than the Mikrotik GPeR? I can pull a separate cable to power the IR.

Did you crimp any of your own RJ45 connectors in this run anywhere or are they all pre-made?
I terminated the ends myself. I use push-through connectors so I was able to get the jacket way in there.

 

[biggen]

See my comments below...

1. I'd set it back to auto. I don't think a link negotiation issue is the problem.
2. I've never used any PoE extenders so I don' thave any first hand knowledge.
3. It may be worth cutting off the connectors and crimping new ones. Or at least cut one off at a time and test overnight.

Depending on where you are in the world, it could be condensation that is producing some water in the conduit. Sealing the ends won't do anything to stop that. Here in Florida, that is a big issue.

 

[105437]

Thanks @biggen, I can put new ends on one at a time. I did check the cables with a high quality tester from work and they tested okay. I live in East Tennessee and the water is entering the conduit from the pull box. The box has a lid but I can see evidence that water gets inside. I'm assuming from heavy rain. I think the water collects and rises enough in the box for it to "drain" into the conduit.

Camera is still online. No ping replies greater than 10ms.

 

[sebastiantombs]

I know where the water is coming from. I'm going to try and use a leaf blower at the pull box at the top of the hill to blow out the downhill portion of the conduit. If that works I'll use some plumbers putty or something to plug the hole where water is entering.

If you can, use some rubberized tape or paint. That will allow for flex, while remaining water tight, with expansion and contraction from heating and cooling.

I do think you're really pushing the limit of PoE especially with using the splitter. It may be a big PITA but a second cable is probably going to be the only true "cure". The efficiency of the PoE splitter also comes in to play under these conditions.

 

[TheWaterbug]

I know where the water is coming from. I'm going to try and use a leaf blower at the pull box at the top of the hill to blow out the downhill portion of the conduit. If that works I'll use some plumbers putty or something to plug the hole where water is entering.

If you have buried conduit, water will eventually get in, no matter what you do. That's why you want to use a gel-filled cable, so that water doesn't matter.

 

[Rickoo]

If you have buried conduit, water will eventually get in, no matter what you do. That's why you want to use a gel-filled cable, so that water doesn't matter.

Agree 100%. I've buried a fair amount of conduit in the past. Both for low and high voltage. I don't care how well you think you've glued/sealed things, eventually water will fill the conduit. I found that creating drain holes/openings in appropriate areas to allow water to drain is the best option. Conduit protects the wire from damage due to chaffing/digging/insect/rodents while the holes or open areas will allow water to drain. Always use direct burial wire no matter what.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

This run is to my mailbox and is ~400'. ...

400' is ABOVE the maximum specified length for an ethernet run. The ethernet packet protocols have critical timing specs based on worse case progation times over 100 meters (330 feet) at the speed of signals in a twisted pair (about 40-70% of light speed depending on the wire). running longer WILL create problems, and this is even before we get into PoE voltage drops. In addition to the absolute propagtion speed, cat6 wire has 4 pairs, and each pair has a different twist rate, this is to reduce signal crosstalk, but it means the signals skew farther with longer runs, which causes yet more problems since both 100baseT and gigE use all 4 pairs, 2 for Tx, and 2 for Rx.

re voltage drop, AWG 24 (common cat6 solid copper) has 0.0842 ohms per meter at 68F. round trip on that 400 foot (122 meter) run will be 244 * 0.0842 = 20 ohms. 12 watts at 48 volts is 0.25 amps, 0.25 amps * 20 ohms is a 5 volt drop, so you would only see 43 volts at the far end. resistance goes up when the wire is hot, around 0.4% per degree above 68F (the spec temp), so the voltage drop will increase, too.

you can partially get around the PoE wire length issues by using a PoE switch or inserter that has a 'boost' mode where it outputs a higher voltage, however this won't solve the ethernet timing issues.

 

[dudemaar]

ePoe perhaps?