Poor IR contrast in new Tennessee license plates

[wittaj]

And let's not forget to add this million dollar plus mistake LOL:

Ohio has to change license plates because of ‘regrettable’ mistake

“Y’all leave Ohio alone. They wouldn’t know. They weren’t there,” razzed North Carolina.

www.mercurynews.com

So I posted this viral mistake earlier in the thread about how Ohio had screwed up the design of the airplane LOL.

But looking at that plate, I was thinking it would be too busy and probably not do well with plate readers because it is not raised letters, and then with this thread I was thinking that I bet they probably aren't reflective lettering either.



Wouldn't you know this perfect timing, I am out yesterday morning bringing the trash cans back up and a car goes by with Ohio plates, and the new ones at that!

Can anyone read this plate LOL:



I suspect many states are following down this path.

 

[wtimothyholman]

I suspect many states are following down this path.

I suspect that Ohio, like Tennessee, is switching to 3M's printed plate manufacturing process.

This is going to turn into a major mess for multiple states if this continues. Law enforcement will be hobbled by these new plates, and Flock Safety will find their business model being destroyed by 3M.

 

[wittaj]

What was wrong the jailers making the plates?

Introducing the 3M LPR camera LOL.

For the cost of only $3,000/month this camera will read EVERY plate.

That rusty plate, no problem.

The temp tag, no problem.

The missing plate, no problem.

I guess 3M donates more to the politicians than Flock Safety does...

 

[wtimothyholman]

I've decided to gamble another $26 and order a 10W 740nm security illuminator from China. This is not a screw in bulb, but instead a rectangular enclosure with a high-power LED. It makes no sense to me that my Dahua -Z12 cameras would be insensitive to 730nm IR light, so I'm going to try a different lamp to verify if this is truly the case. I don't really trust the bulbs I bought, as they were sold as grow lights, and their spectral output at 730nm could actually be quite poor. The one I just bought is actually sold as a security light, so (fingers crossed) it will perform better with my LPR system.

One way or the other I suspect that 730nm to 750nm IR illumination will be required for LPR cameras in Tennessee. According to a news report last week, the Tennessee Dept. of Revenue may decide to take the stance of "It's not our fault if people are using low-cost LPR cameras. They need to buy better cameras to read our plates." Companies like Flock Safety are promising to fix the issue in software, but that's simply not going to happen with 850nm IR illumination.

Here is a video that illustrates the problem with the new TN plates, courtesy of Skycop.

 

[wittaj]

I hope this next one works. I would love to know how Flock Safety is able to see and fix this through software like we see on TV and the movies LOL.

 

[wtimothyholman]

I hope this next one works. I would love to know how Flock Safety is able to see and fix this through software like we see on TV and the movies LOL.

In my opinion, Flock Safety have screwed themselves. Their entire business model depends on low-cost LPR cameras using 850nm technology, running off solar power. By claiming they could "fix it in software", they gave the Dept. of Revenue the perfect excuse to do nothing.

The people I've talked to who have access to Flock Systems say that nothing has improved. The plates are still almost always unreadable at night with Flock cameras, despite their attempts at tweaking the camera settings in software. So now Flock is backed into a corner, facing the prospect of upgrading every camera they have deployed in the U.S.A.

 

[wittaj]

One would think that Flock Safety would have been doing like most businesses doing and lobbying elected officials to ensure their business interests are not negatively impacted by change.

I mean I am sure that 3M could probably lobby harder and with more money than Flock Safety, but I cannot believe that every other LPR type system put in to read plates around the country will not suffer from these same things.

The only thing I could see is maybe the toll roads and other locations where the cameras that take pictures and send tickets are in such well-lit areas that they can run color so it won't impact them?

 

[wtimothyholman]

One would think that Flock Safety would have been doing like most businesses doing and lobbying elected officials to ensure their business interests are not negatively impacted by change.

I mean I am sure that 3M could probably lobby harder and with more money than Flock Safety, but I cannot believe that every other LPR type system put in to read plates around the country will not suffer from these same things.

The only thing I could see is maybe the toll roads and other locations where the cameras that take pictures and send tickets are in such well-lit areas that they can run color so it won't impact them?

The interests of 3M and Flock Safety are not at cross purposes. 3M could no doubt adjust their manufacturing process to make the plates visible in 850nm infrared. The problem is that no one foresaw the huge growth in 850nm camera technology for LPR applications. Consider that Rekor and Flock Safety were both founded in 2017, just five years ago. That's how rapidly the technology has advanced.

Flock Safety could have paid the state of TN to reissue the million or so plates that have been shipped so far, and it would have been cheaper than what it will cost to upgrade and redeploy all of their cameras all over the country. The same also goes for Rekor, Vigilant, and every other manufacturer relying on 850nm IR cameras. But companies don't think that way until they're forced to.

 

[DLONG2]

With that much IR power, I could illuminate my entire street. For those who are interested in a somewhat smaller scale deployment, Axton quoted me a price of $319 each for their PoE Nano illuminators customized with 730nm LEDs.

But I'm going to see if I can do this a bit more cheaply. $34 for two 730 nm LED bulbs + $30 for the mounting hardware and fixtures + $20 for a smart switch will go over much more easily with the CFO (i.e. my wife).

Any links to products appreciated!

 

[wtimothyholman]

Any links to products appreciated!

If I come up with a workable illuminator for my Dahua -Z12 cameras, I will definitely provide details in this thread. Right now I see no point in providing information about items that haven't worked.

 

[biggen]

Enjoyed reading this thread. I have an Axton unit (PoE) in 10 degree beam width but at 860nm of course. I went back and looked through my plate captures and I don’t have any of those new plates that passed by my house during the day. I was hoping to find one during the day and then search for the same plate at night to see if it was captured.

 

[DLONG2]

I wonder if the state DOT can be contacted for a test plate to be sent out?

 

[wtimothyholman]

I wonder if the state DOT can be contacted for a test plate to be sent out?

I already tried that and they never responded. "Uncooperative" and "uncommunicative" are the best adjectives for describing their attitude.

Government agencies are generally unwilling to hand their critics additional ammunition to use against them.

 

[wtimothyholman]

Enjoyed reading this thread. I have an Axton unit (PoE) in 10 degree beam width but at 860nm of course. I went back and looked through my plate captures and I don’t have any of those new plates that passed by my house during the day. I was hoping to find one during the day and then search for the same plate at night to see if it was captured.

If you're located in Georgia, give it time. All 5.5 million TN plates will be replaced by the end of this year, so it won't take long before most of the southeast U.S. is dealing with them.

 

[wtimothyholman]

So here's the state of Tennessee's response: New Tennessee license plates undergo testing from various reader technology, no changes planned

As far as the state is concerned, since there are some LPR camera models that can read the new plates at night, then it is up to local law enforcement to purchase cameras that will work, or for camera vendors to modify their own hardware.

The next few months should be interesting. 740nm infrared illumination will become mandatory for DIY LPR installations if this continues.

 

[Flintstone61]

You gotta run Moonshine Somehow Dag Nabbit!

 

[TechieTech]

The next few months should be interesting. 740nm infrared illumination will become mandatory for DIY LPR installations if this continues.

I hope people start selling 740nm illuminators then. I can't even find them on AliExpress.

That, and I believe I read on here that someone was testing the HFW5241-Z12E and that it wasn't even picking up 740nm.

 

[wtimothyholman]

I hope people start selling 740nm illuminators then. I can't even find them on AliExpress.

That, and I believe I read on here that someone was testing the HFW5241-Z12E and that it wasn't even picking up 740nm.

That someone was me. I tried testing the cameras with 730nm "grow bulbs" as illuminators, with no luck. I've since ordered a 740nm security illuminator, but the Shenzhen COVID lockdown is delaying the shipment.

Perhaps vendors like Dahua will make 740nm LED illuminator an option in future models. That might be a request for @EMPIRETECANDY to pass on to his contacts at Dahua.

 

[biggen]

If we can prove the 5241 isn’t immune to 740nm, I’ll probably buy another Axton unit in that wavelength and mount it next to my current Axton unit. Or contact Axton and have them build me a dual unit.

 

[wtimothyholman]

If we can prove the 5241 isn’t immune to 740nm, I’ll probably buy another Axton unit in that wavelength and mount it next to my current Axton unit. Or contact Axton and have them build me a dual unit.

Axton told me that they can build a custom 730nm AT-5ME-AC illuminator on request, at $319 per unit, 4 week lead time. I'll pay it if I have to. But I first want to be certain that the 5241 works in the 730nm to 750nm wavelength range. It makes no sense that it wouldn't work, and yet my experiments with the grow bulbs were a complete failure.