Problems with Dahua NVR/IPC install

[Spektyr]

Okay, going to try to limit the rambling here... no guarantees.

The situation: two hotel installs using Dahua NVRs and cameras. This isn't gear I'm familiar with yet I'm somehow the "go to guy" everyone expects to know all the things and so on.

Both locations are using the N52B5P NVR and then some basic IP cams made by Dahua of various types.

I did the runs and camera/NVR install at location #1, someone else did location #2 and discovered that there were only 16 ports on the back of the NVR to plug 19 cameras into, so 3 were left disconnected.

Problem #1: Exceeding the 16 ports on the NVR
Location #1 has exactly 16 cameras right now, but will be adding more soon. The other has 19 cameras with 4 more going in next week. We have an 8-port dumb PoE switch at each location to handle this.

At location #1 I tried plugging one camera from the back of the NVR into the switch, and then the switch into the back of the NVR. Boom, no problem, everything "just worked". Tried moving additional cameras from the NVR to the switch (switch still plugged into port 16 on the NVR), none of them connected. Beat my head against the wall for an additional 40 minutes trying to figure it out, then plugged everything back the way it was with one camera in the switch, and the switch into the back of the NVR and left it like that. (This hotel is 100% hard-deck ceiling and was bid at 30 hours to install 16 cameras. I was there for a solid WEEK doing the cabling and let's just say I don't like being there anymore.)

At location #2 I have the switch plugged into the same network device as the NVR. A different 3rd party runs all the internal networking. I plugged the three cameras that had been installed previously but not connected into the switch. Two cameras of those three immediately appeared in the device search and would display after some trial and error. One never appeared. When plugged directly into the NVR that third camera works, but it can't be found if plugged into the switch. I tried moving two cameras from the NVR to the switch and they would appear at their old IP address when plugged into the switch, but I couldn't get them to connect (they gave an error about the video feed I should have made note of, but didn't).

My theory is that any camera connected to the back of the NVR gets configured by the NVR to use a static IP assigned by the NVR and thus can't be addressed by the LAN-side port of the NVR? So maybe I need to plug the camera straight to my laptop and reconfig it to use DHCP?

I should also point out that these hotels are basically using a potato for their Internet connection so trying to search online while troubleshooting is infuriating. There's no AC in the closets the NVR's are in yet, and it's right next to the elevator, so the whole time I'm working I'm getting interrupted every 5 minutes by a guest asking if the elevator works. Well no, not really, because it's a thousand years old and on the verge of gaining sentience, but that has nothing to do with what I'm doing. Good luck.

So first up, what's the "right" way to connect this all up? I'm assuming that best practice is to plug the NVR LAN port and the switch into a the same network device. Is there more than one acceptable configuration? What can and can't I do in this regard and where in the flaming hell do I find answers if not from you fine people here? (I've read some of the Dahua manuals and as a Documentation Nerd they massively try my patience... they are not well-written.)

The other part of that problem is getting the cameras to talk through the switch. The two I did get working required some Initialization process that was not well-explained, intuitive, or otherwise easily understood. I'm still not sure what I did that got them working exactly, but they're working. The other one that I can't get to work doesn't even show up in the device search so I couldn't poke it until it worked. I pulled it off the ceiling (N64CG52) hoping to manually reset it but there wasn't a button to do so. Possibly inside if I disassemble it? No idea. Again, I'd lost patience for trying to do onsite research at that point and it was clear we were going to have to come back next week to finish anyway (the mounts for the massive exterior panoramics didn't ship on time).

Problem #2 - Multi-sensor Cameras
At location #1 a few of the Dahua dual-camera units are installed (IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M). By default you get camera 1 on the NVR when you plug them in and theoretically you can see the footage from the other camera. Somehow. I can't find solid documentation on HOW to do that, though. What I do find doesn't match the interface I see via SmartPSS, the web interface, or when I plug a monitor and mouse into the NVR itself. That location has 16 cameras and should have 19 feeds. I can only get 16.

What would be especially lovely would be if I could get the camera plugged into port #4, for example, to show camera 1 on channel 4 and camera 2 on channel 5, but that's not high-priority (icing on a horrible cake at this point). So far I haven't found any way to make a camera show on a channel that doesn't equal the port it's connected to, if it's plugged into a port on the NVR.


TLDR: I'm basically trying to determine what the most fool-proof method for connecting cameras to an N52B5P NVR would be. Assume that all the possible problems are present in one form or another (like cameras with the wrong IP set static, or whatever else could go wrong.) Some cameras have to be plugged into the NVR (which so far has been working flawlessly) and some have to be plugged into another switch. DHCP is tested and working on the LAN that switch is plugged into.

Also, I cannot for the life of me figure out how to see the footage of camera 2 on an IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M. If there is any possible way, I need to have both camera feeds running at the same time on the NVR when viewed from Smart PSS or the mobile app.


What would be the most ideal would be a procedure I can hand to a vaguely-competent IT help desk guy. My thought is that if it's overkill (like resetting every camera to "catch" and correct every possible problem) the procedure can be blindly followed without any troubleshooting required and I can send someone else to fix this and not need to be onsite either up an Aerial lift or in a hotel attic doing the final install of the exterior cameras. Younger men (and more importantly, younger backs) could do it instead.

 

[c hris527]

Wow Lots to chew on here. Without getting too involved on YOUR setup, I can give you advise on some of the HOW it works, It sounds like you have some solid tcpip skills so I can tell you what is most likely going on with your cams and systems.
Your NVR is good for 32 ports, 8 E-POE and 8 regular, above that 16 you will need a POE switch or power injector to run them..Hint: Multi sensor cams take up 1 port per sensor I believe, we had a review here on this form by i believe @looney2ns who tested one, I have not used them but you could gain insight on his review on that.
That being said, there is a few way to go about this, You stated you thought the NVR gives your cams a "static ip address, Not So, its a dynamic address and it has a built in DHCP server and unless someone changed it, it is usually by default 10.1.1.x subnet. You can check this in your NVR settings under network, then Switch, it should give you the ip pool it using, this is VERY important to know before try adding cams to your system through the switch.
Lets talk about your Main Network or management port on the NVR, also important if you plan on adding cams through the "HOTEL" network or using remote access.
The third thing is your cams network setup, You REALLY need to know if they are set Static or Dynamic, If the person who was in before you have them set to static and you plan on using them through a port on the back of the NVR to a poe switch, they MUST be set to the same IP Range as the NVR DHCP server.
I prefer to make those static because a lot of times they will NOT show up in a search on your NVR when adding cams, for whatever reason the NVR will not see them on the other side of the POE switch, However, Dahau has a manual add feature and if you manually type in 10.1.1.x ip address it finds them that way. Different model Dahua cams do different things as far as :JUST SHOWING UP' and some will not and you will have to manually add them. Hope that makes sense to you. Another thing about the cams is the user name and password, They will just show up if they have the same user name and password that on the NVR, If they do not it will still work but when the NVR finds them you will see a X through it and will have to manually click the Pencil icon and enter the username and password, HINT: If the username and password is different, the NVR will keep trying on its own to connect to the cam and lock it out after so many attempts. Make you life easy and make sure its the same. I usually create a different ADMIN account on the NVR and the Cams that match so things go easy.
So How are you going to configure this? It can be done or might I add I have done it 3 different ways that I know works with MY gear, I just set up a 24 port Dahua this week so I know what I have done works, sometimes firmware changes or camera types can differ but I can only tell you by the school of hard knocks how I have done it.
1. Back of NVR using one of the poe ports to the uplink in your POE switch. Most likely than not will have to manually add the cams as stated above to the NVR. Keep count of the multi sensor cams for port usage.
2. You can also add cams across the Hotel's network using the IP POOL of your management port, so if the hotels network is say 10.50.50.x, Your NVR management port should be 10.50.50.199 or something in the high range out of the hotel's network DHCP pool range(if they have it enabled) I failed to mention above your internal NV R's DHCP pool Cannot be the same range as the hotels , only the management port on the NVR. So you can plant a POE switch someplace and use existing hotel network infrastructure. You can then give your cams either the internal 10.1.1.x ip address OR use the Hostels range of the 10.50.50.x range, depending on the security, VLANS or port ranges setup on the house network this may not work. Best way to find out would be to set up a switch and a cam and see if you can ping it across your network. I REALLY like to keep things off the house network as much as possible so going off the back of the NVR's would be MY choice. As a example, I have a NVR in one building using the house network on the management port only.
It is set to 10.50.50.199, The POE range on the NVR I have set to 10.1.1.x, this building has 9 cams using off the back POE ports. I have another building that also has a house switch on the same subnet 10.50.50.x That house switch has POE so I configured the camera to have a 10.1.1.x ip address and install it in this building, This building has NO NVR so I WENT BACK TO THE nvr AND manually add it to the NVR, no issues. I have also done it buy giving it a house IP address like 10.50.50.188(high range again) and that also works. So I have cams recording to a NVR in other buildings.
Hope this helps.

Link Multi sensor cam---> Review-Dahua IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M Dual Starlight Cam

Dahua Wikki --https://dahuawiki.com/Main_Page

 

[Spektyr]

Wow Lots to chew on here.

Yeah, I wasn't sure how much time I'd have to answer specific questions about this, so I just dumped all the info that I thought might be relevant.
I do really appreciate you taking the time to read it and help me out.

Hint: Multi sensor cams take up 1 port per sensor I believe, we had a review here on this form by i believe @looney2ns who tested one, I have not used them but you could gain insight on his review on that.

I looked after reading this and couldn't find anything under a search for "multi-sensor" or "multi sensor". I'll keep looking but if you can give me a nudge in the right direction I would like to see that review.

You stated you thought the NVR gives your cams a "static ip address, Not So, its a dynamic address and it has a built in DHCP server and unless someone changed it, it is usually by default 10.1.1.x subnet.

They are on the 10.1.1.x network. The behavior I see that makes me think they're static is that two of the cameras that were plugged into the NVR when I arrived I moved to the switch. The NVR still found them after they booted up, but showed their original 10.1.1.X IP address. That made me think they were static'd, but it's really unlikely that the guys who did the install went through and set them all to static IPs. I just assumed the NVR might have done that as a default setting but you're saying that's not the case so I'm not sure what's up. Do the cameras not even contact DHCP when they boot up if their lease hasn't expired?

The third thing is your cams network setup, You REALLY need to know if they are set Static or Dynamic, If the person who was in before you have them set to static and you plan on using them through a port on the back of the NVR to a poe switch, they MUST be set to the same IP Range as the NVR DHCP server.

The cameras plugged into the switch (and that correctly use DHCP to pull an IP) get an address in the same range as the outward-facing link of the NVR. It was able to see them and add them to channels higher than 16. So that is working.

I prefer to make those static because a lot of times they will NOT show up in a search on your NVR when adding cams, for whatever reason the NVR will not see them on the other side of the POE switch, However, Dahau has a manual add feature and if you manually type in 10.1.1.x ip address it finds them that way.

The problem we have is that we have no control over the internal network of the hotel. That's all run by a different MSP. The good news is that they have everything VLAN'd out pretty well, so the network the NVR is on isn't accessible from the guest network at all, and I don't believe the staff network is even the same (definitely not the wireless one, but maybe the wired network). Is there any way to access the camera settings from the NVR config controls? I can plug my laptop into the same network pretty easily to deal with the stuff running on the switch, but to hit the 10.1.1.x cameras I'd have to plug in to the back of the NVR and to be perfectly honest, I'm hesitant to trust that NVR's PoE to correctly read that my hardware does NOT require a bunch of voltage.

I'm thinking of using the configuration tool Dahua has to plug the cameras into my Surface one by one (or just as needed) to set them up properly. That's not as fast as if I could do so through the NVR somehow, but I haven't found anything to do that if it exists. I also need to find one of the PoE injectors everyone is constantly misplacing to do that. Really though, I'm only having trouble with the ones on the switch so I should probably be able to ignore all the ones plugged directly into the NVR and just plug into the switch and deal with those.

Different model Dahua cams do different things as far as :JUST SHOWING UP' and some will not and you will have to manually add them. Hope that makes sense to you. Another thing about the cams is the user name and password, They will just show up if they have the same user name and password that on the NVR, If they do not it will still work but when the NVR finds them you will see a X through it and will have to manually click the Pencil icon and enter the username and password

I've seen that with basically everything I've manually added. But when I try the documented default passwords instead of getting the video feed error I didn't document the exact wording of, I got an error about incorrect login credentials. Incidentally, that's the same thing that happens when I try to add a duplicate of the multi-sensor cameras (with the goal of setting the second one to display the second sensor).

1. Back of NVR using one of the poe ports to the uplink in your POE switch. Most likely than not will have to manually add the cams as stated above to the NVR. Keep count of the multi sensor cams for port usage.

I was fairly certain we'd need a port for every camera stream. We're well under the 32 ports this NVR supports. Every time I've manually added a camera I've gotten either some kind of error about the video stream (timeout, fail, something like that) or an incorrect login.

2. You can also add cams across the Hotel's network using the IP POOL of your management port, so if the hotels network is say 10.50.50.x, Your NVR management port should be 10.50.50.199 or something in the high range out of the hotel's network DHCP pool range(if they have it enabled) I failed to mention above your internal NV R's DHCP pool Cannot be the same range as the hotels , only the management port on the NVR. So you can plant a POE switch someplace and use existing hotel network infrastructure. You can then give your cams either the internal 10.1.1.x ip address OR use the Hostels range of the 10.50.50.x range, depending on the security, VLANS or port ranges setup on the house network this may not work. Best way to find out would be to set up a switch and a cam and see if you can ping it across your network.

I'd love to static everything, but we don't have any say on the network this gear is attached to. I don't even know how big the DHCP range is, or where we might be able to set static IPs without stepping on toes.

I REALLY like to keep things off the house network as much as possible so going off the back of the NVR's would be MY choice.

I'm inclined that way as well, but at the 2nd location we don't really have the option. I don't know how many times I argued with them on it, but when they realized they'd ordered 19 cameras to be plugged into an NVR with 16 ports on the back they were discussing how to fix it, and asking whether they made really small PoE switches (like 3 or 4 ports). I said several times that no, you don't buy the small ones because for one thing they're usually really poor quality, and for another thing this is for a camera system they're likely to want to expand soon. I'm making my case for ordering at LEAST a 12 port switch so we have a decent amount of room to grow, and they're trying to get it to custom-fit with no room to spare. Finally they order an 8 port with no uplinks. Fast-forward a couple weeks and they want us to put together a bid for four more cameras. So that's a total of 23. If we plug the switch into the NVR that leaves 22 ports for cameras (15 free ports on the NVR, and 7 free ports on the switch, because of course they bought a prosumer-grade switch with no uplinks. Oh, but it has optional rack-mounting tabs in case I trusted the rickety unsecured rack more than the shelf the NVR is on...)

At least at the first location there's only 16 cameras (currently). I still nested the switch so that there's one camera plugged into it, and then it's plugged into the NVR. When/if we put more cameras there (I expect we will) I'll try manually adding them via the switch. Hopefully we do 6 or less. I was concerned that perhaps somehow the NVR wouldn't address more than one camera from a single port on the back.


Quick add: do you know if there's any way to move a camera that's plugged directly into the NVR off the channel that matches the number of the port it's plugged into? Example: I plug a camera into port 4. It shows up automatically on channel 4 and the setting for that in the NVR is greyed out so I can't change it. The hotels have TV monitors set up with a feed from the video output of the NVR. To make things legible that's set at a 3x3 screen so we need to make sure the 9 most important cameras are on that screen. That means either moving things around on the back of the NVR - what I've done so far - or moving them around in the settings which I haven't been able to figure out how to do (if it's even possible).

Basically I want to be able to plug stuff in however I like, however is easiest to make things work, and then sort it out internally in the programming. At this point I'm thinking that's not possible except as the custom views you can set up in SmartPSS or the mobile apps.

 

[c hris527]

Not a lot of time now but I did leave a link to @looney2ns post on his multi sensor cam review at the bottom of my first post.

QUOTE: do you know if there's any way to move a camera that's plugged directly into the NVR off the channel that matches the number of the port it's plugged into? Example: I plug a camera into port 4. It shows up automatically on channel 4 and the setting for that in the NVR is greyed out so I can't change it.

If you want to do that you have to disconnect everything and start from scratch, The Physical Ports on the NVR DO not match the Virtual ports in the GUI, So basically it would be log into the NVR, Delete ALL Cams and Add one at a time to match, its a pain in the Ass but If you want to get everything the way you want it that's what you have to do. And once you Introduce a Switch through the ass end of the NVR all bets are off. Better Add all your POE Cams first so can can get matching port assignments then introduce the POE switch, then add those cams one at a time.

I was fairly certain we'd need a port for every camera stream. We're well under the 32 ports this NVR supports. Every time I've manually added a camera I've gotten either some kind of error about the video stream (timeout, fail, something like that) or an incorrect login.

That is why you need to make sure your user names and passwords on the Cameras match the username and PW on the NVR,

They are on the 10.1.1.x network. The behavior I see that makes me think they're static is that two of the cameras that were plugged into the NVR when I arrived I moved to the switch. The NVR still found them after they booted up, but showed their original 10.1.1.X IP address.

Once Again, you REALLY need to know how they are set Sometimes they WILL pull a DHCP through a switch and sometimes not. If it was me , I would take the time to disconnect EVERYTHING and log on to each camera , set your network preference, usernames and passwords to match the NVR. I know this sounds like work but in the long run you will KNOW what is going on. If you do not do this you will be in chasing your tail.

 

[Spektyr]

Not a lot of time now but I did leave a link to @looney2ns post on his multi sensor cam review at the bottom of my first post.

I'm an idiot. I couldn't tell you why but I just assumed that was a link to the data sheet or manual for that camera. I should have looked closer, my apologies.

The Physical Ports on the NVR DO not match the Virtual ports in the GUI, So basically it would be log into the NVR, Delete ALL Cams and Add one at a time to match, its a pain in the Ass but If you want to get everything the way you want it that's what you have to do. And once you Introduce a Switch through the ass end of the NVR all bets are off. Better Add all your POE Cams first so can can get matching port assignments then introduce the POE switch, then add those cams one at a time.

I actually tried that earlier. I'm pretty sure the cameras physically plugged into the back of the NVR automatically re-added themselves to the same port shortly after I removed them. Maybe I'm remembering that wrong, but I wasn't able to make it do what I wanted last time I tried. I'll give it another shot when I'm back up there tomorrow.

Thanks for the help.

I think these two hotels have hit just about every installation woe there is just between the two of them. Actually the only thing I haven't hit yet was a DOA camera - knock on wood.

 

[c hris527]

That the Good think about Dahua Gear, Its pretty bullet proof..shit keeps running.

 

[mat200]

..Hint: Multi sensor cams take up 1 port per sensor I believe, we had a review here on this form by i believe @looney2ns who tested one, I have not used them but you could gain insight on his review on that.
..

Indeed @c hris527 @Spektyr -

Each "camera" needs a "channel" - a multi-sensor "camera" ( like the dual lens one looney2ns reviewed ) you should think of as a multiple cameras bound together - and you'll need as many channels as there are lenses / "sensors".

It gets a bit weird to state this, as it is possible to have a camera that has multiple sensors that they combine the video into one stream, and typically each camera can do 2-3 video streams - so I can't really state "one stream, one channel" either...

 

[Spektyr]

I may not have all the terminology right, but I do understand how it works.

That model of camera has two cameras mounted to the same physical and electronic hardware, and both cameras share the same network connection (one RJ-45 jack, cable, IP address, etc.) But if you have 8 of those cameras with double sensors (for a total of 16 sensors) you can't have them all running on an NVR that can only handle 8 channels. My issue wasn't with the understanding of how it works, but rather the understanding of how to make it show the second camera, which I think the review c hris527 linked answered. I haven't gotten it to work yet, but I have it on my list of things to do while I'm on site.

Quick question: when I plug a Dahua camera into the back of a Dahua NVR and it "just works", does the NVR change the camera's password to match it's own admin password? Or does it simply use the default admin login to view the feed?

 

[c hris527]

I may not have all the terminology right, but I do understand how it works.

That model of camera has two cameras mounted to the same physical and electronic hardware, and both cameras share the same network connection (one RJ-45 jack, cable, IP address, etc.) But if you have 8 of those cameras with double sensors (for a total of 16 sensors) you can't have them all running on an NVR that can only handle 8 channels. My issue wasn't with the understanding of how it works, but rather the understanding of how to make it show the second camera, which I think the review c hris527 linked answered. I haven't gotten it to work yet, but I have it on my list of things to do while I'm on site.

Quick question: when I plug a Dahua camera into the back of a Dahua NVR and it "just works", does the NVR change the camera's password to match it's own admin password? Or does it simply use the default admin login to view the feed?

The camera will not log on to the NVR without credentials, In my above post I said IF the user name and password on the Cam is the same as the user name and password on the NVR it will add itself or as you described "JUST WORK" Thats why its important to check your cams and NVR for user names and passwords, set them up first and its pretty much plug and play. The NVR does not change it.

 

[Shockwave199]

Man I feel for you. The poe nvr's can be possessed, I swear. Even though it's plug and play, once a channel assigns an address with a camera plugged into it, it does not like giving it up, changing it, or accepting any other camera than the one that was originally in that poe channel. It acts like it's static but it isn't. Weirdest beasts ever. One approach that might help is to connect all cameras with the nvr off and then fire it up and let it work out the assignments in one shot. I've also had success by taking note of all the channel addresses in the nvr and then modifying the ip addresses of the cameras not showing up, doing so by modifying them within the nvr remote device section. I've had better luck not by choosing addresses way higher than the range of the others, but by filling in gaps that may occur within the current range or starting with the next highest number from the last address. But like I said, the poe nvrs are very weird, finicky beasts once they assign the initial addresses per channel. Best of luck.

 

[Spektyr]

Okay, we got it (almost) all straightened out. This hardware appears to do nothing consistently.

Two cameras that had been plugged into the NVR that were plugged into the switch. Identical models.
Both still showing up in device search with the 10.1.1.x IP they got from the NVR, which of course won't work if added through the network side of the NVR. Tried switching one of them from static to DHCP (which had to have been set by the NVR - we didn't do it) and it would not accept the new config. Disassembled it and hit the reset, it showed up as 192.168.1.109 - still not right. Plugged into the switch with the Surface and set it to static in the same subnet and then logged into the camera which was NOT using any default passwords. Tried the admin creds set into the NVR and that worked. So after a reset this thing copied the NVR's admin creds somehow. Set it to DHCP, added it to the NVR, everything worked.

Second camera, took it apart and reset it, it immediately pulled a good IP from DHCP and was added successfully. It did not assign itself a 192.168.1.x static IP. Not sure what creds it has because we didn't need to log in and we had a couple hours left to do a day's worth of work.

Still haven't messed with the multi-sensor cameras, I have to fly internationally tomorrow for two weeks and have no time left to try stuff. I think the issue may be they've picked up the NVR's admin account password which I hadn't yet tried when adding them. I'm passing that along for one of the guys to try while I'm out of the country.

Can't say I'm at all sad to be unable to have additional conversations with people about whether or not I should just "brave" a thunderstorm and go up in an aerial lift to install a 10lb camera with pouring rain and lightning...

I'll bet money I wouldn't be struck by lightning, but I won't bet my life (or my lift license).

Edit to add: huge thanks to everyone who's helped out.

 

[c hris527]

Tried switching one of them from static to DHCP (which had to have been set by the NVR - we didn't do it)

The NVR Itself does NOT set your cams to static, Its only a DHCP server and the cam either will accept it (If set to Dynamic) or reject it if your cam is set to a static IP address. What I have seen happen that might explain your issues with those Identical cams is a corrupted config in the firmware, It happens after a lot of changes being made back and forth and setting played around with. You did the correct method of resetting them and it worked out fine for you. Another Issue that might pop its ugly head is the cams might not keep their settings after you have them set the way you want them, example of motion detection going bye bye after a NVR Re-start. Usually a firmware update will correct this. Once you have everything up and running, restart it a few times to make sure things comes back up as you last left it. If all is good, Its also a GREAT Idea to back up your NVR's Config file to a thumb drive and leave it in a safe place near the NVR in case things go bad. That way a quick phone call to a on site teckkie could restore things. It might save you a trip to the site.