Hello everyone. I am installing a 22 camera system in a building that has a nightclub on the bottom floor with apartments on the 2nd - 4th floor levels. The owner of nightclub would like to dedicate one camera full displaying real-time video of the dance floor onto a large monitor (75" or more) that can be seen by other bar patrons. The viewing conditions will be extremely low light and involve a lot of fast motion. I have had good success with Dahua IPC-HDW2231R-ZS cameras on other projects I've done at Fraternity Houses that provide an adequate picture for most situations, but fall a little short when it comes to capturing video of dancing in a low light party room. I feel the conditions in the night club will be very similar and would like to know if anyone has any recommendations as to what should be used. The dance floor area I'd like to capture is approximately 20' x 10' and the room has 10' ceilings. the owner has expressed a desire for the camera to be PTZ so an operator can switch to other areas of the bar to display on the monitor as well, but that is not a critical feature. Also, if the 20' x 10' scene is too large for the desired effect I could reduce that area to about a 10' x 10' area. I feel that unless the video is very crisp and without blur so as the individuals can be easily recognized on the display in full color then this feature wouldn't serve its intended purpose. . The remainder of the cameras installed will be Dahua IPC-HDW2231R-ZS and I will be using a Dahua NVR. I appreciate your input.
Recommendation for Nightclub dance floor camera
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xyvyx
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Hmm.. maybe you have a legit use for an HF8835F !!
I think it's something around $900 for the camera itself & you'd need to add some kind of M43 lens.
It's got a monster of a sensor in it... while the HFW4239T-ASE might be one of the next-best low-light cams (not infra-red), it uses a pretty slow shutter speed to get the results.
I think it's something around $900 for the camera itself & you'd need to add some kind of M43 lens.
It's got a monster of a sensor in it... while the HFW4239T-ASE might be one of the next-best low-light cams (not infra-red), it uses a pretty slow shutter speed to get the results.
The Automation Guy
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Are there laser lights installed in the venue?
I ask because I know lasers can ruin DSLR camera sensors. There are plenty of examples of photographers (especially wedding photos) having their camera sensors permanently damaged from the laser lights around a dance floor. I assume it can happen to CCTV sensors as well, but I haven't really looked into it. I would definitely check it out before I spend a lot of money on cameras that were going to be permanently installed around a dance floor if there are laser lights being used in the venue.
I ask because I know lasers can ruin DSLR camera sensors. There are plenty of examples of photographers (especially wedding photos) having their camera sensors permanently damaged from the laser lights around a dance floor. I assume it can happen to CCTV sensors as well, but I haven't really looked into it. I would definitely check it out before I spend a lot of money on cameras that were going to be permanently installed around a dance floor if there are laser lights being used in the venue.
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Good point. Check the following info/video "The lasers used in the above video more than likely belong to either a Class IIIb or Class IV laser. Anything below this class is relatively safe to look at with the human eye (or a camera sensor)"
www.tctechsystems.com
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Will a Laser Pointer Damage a Security Camera? - TC Tech Systems
An average laser pointer will probably not damage a security camera. But lasers can damage cameras if they're a Class IIIb or above.
www.tctechsystems.com
CCTVCam
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You can't always equate Camera safe with Laser Class. You have to remember, any responsible laser operator will have the laser light within MPE (Maximum Permissible Exposure) levels as defined by the International Laser Display Association. That will be similar to a Class II laser when shining into the audience (it may still be Class III or IV above them in height (by regs I believe 2 metres but ....). That said, many nightclubs take risks and have laser light above MPE.
The point is, it doesn't necessarily follow that what is eye safe is camera safe, even when the laser has been reduced in power in the audience area (remember as well the camera may be in the high power zone anyway because of it's higher position in the room). There are plenty of videos on Youtube of camera damage from lasers where the laser appears to have been reduced in power in the audience area. Video projectors are also at risk. The simple fact appears to be, the more sensitive your camera in low light, the easier it is damaged by laser.
As you're going for sensitive here, this is very relevant. For this reason, the advice given above is correct as you need to keep the cameras outside of any laser action. There are various ways to do this - 1. Physically mount them outside eg behind the lasers if the laser face one direction only (this is the best option) or 2. it is possible to use beam attenuation mapping to map out the camera - the issue with this is it will leave a small hole in any projected pattern where the laser is turned off to avoid the camera. In most cases it probably won't be noticeable unless projecting eg a fan straight at the camera. However, should the someone erase or accidentally fail to initiate the BAM, the damage may be instant. Also be aware, lasers may reduce the view of the camera as it will be looking through the light even from behind. Not an issue for a display showing the action in the club. Maybe a bit more problematic for security purposes. For those purposes, sometimes a camera to the side will get a better view as fan effects are thin when viewed from the side. However, I wouldn't use a side view for action purposes and to this end, lasers are also brightest when viewed face on, so many considerations as security and entertainment, are 2 differing things. So far as BAM's are concerned, you'd need to talk to the laser operator as these are software based and availability depends on how the laser is being controlled. A cheap laser run on sound to light cannot be BAM'ed.
The point is, it doesn't necessarily follow that what is eye safe is camera safe, even when the laser has been reduced in power in the audience area (remember as well the camera may be in the high power zone anyway because of it's higher position in the room). There are plenty of videos on Youtube of camera damage from lasers where the laser appears to have been reduced in power in the audience area. Video projectors are also at risk. The simple fact appears to be, the more sensitive your camera in low light, the easier it is damaged by laser.
As you're going for sensitive here, this is very relevant. For this reason, the advice given above is correct as you need to keep the cameras outside of any laser action. There are various ways to do this - 1. Physically mount them outside eg behind the lasers if the laser face one direction only (this is the best option) or 2. it is possible to use beam attenuation mapping to map out the camera - the issue with this is it will leave a small hole in any projected pattern where the laser is turned off to avoid the camera. In most cases it probably won't be noticeable unless projecting eg a fan straight at the camera. However, should the someone erase or accidentally fail to initiate the BAM, the damage may be instant. Also be aware, lasers may reduce the view of the camera as it will be looking through the light even from behind. Not an issue for a display showing the action in the club. Maybe a bit more problematic for security purposes. For those purposes, sometimes a camera to the side will get a better view as fan effects are thin when viewed from the side. However, I wouldn't use a side view for action purposes and to this end, lasers are also brightest when viewed face on, so many considerations as security and entertainment, are 2 differing things. So far as BAM's are concerned, you'd need to talk to the laser operator as these are software based and availability depends on how the laser is being controlled. A cheap laser run on sound to light cannot be BAM'ed.
You need to get out there off hours and do some live testing, bring a 2231R-ZS and use it as a benchmark, If you are doing installs, you should have some testing cams handy and the gear to run them anyway, take some snapshots, show the owner what it looks like before you purchase cams, good way to CYA in case things do not go as planned.
Thanks for the reply. I do have some 2231R-ZS cams available and am very familiar with their capabilities and while they will do a good job of capturing all of the other scenes they just aren't up to the task of capturing fast movement in low light on a dance floor. For this scenario the club would like the dance floor cam to serve an attractive feature where guests can enjoy watching high quality video of themselves or others performing/dancing. If the 2231R-ZS is the best cam available then i would advise the customer to forego this option as it would not provide the desired effect. Really, I'm a big fan of the 2231R-ZS and have installed hundreds of them, but in this specific instance would just like to know if anyone could point me towards something that is incrementally superior. Does anyone have experience with the IPC-HDBW5442E-ZE / IPC-D5442E-ZE? Could it potentially outperform the 2231R-ZS? Thanks again to all that take the time to offer suggestions.
That is what I call a "special Operations" situation, I have been there with a few situations like that, I have a USA Dahua rep I consult, Chances are they have been there and done that. They have helped me out of a few times with suggestions. PM me if you want the contact info, You also could call Nelly's, they also will let you bend their ear, they are VERY knowledgeable and could give you some good suggestions. They don't do Dahua but might have good alternatives for you. I hope somebody here has some info on those cams for you. One more thing, when you get er up and running post some pics of the Dance setup, would love to see it.
Good Luck
Good Luck
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CCTVCam
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Have you tried adjusting the shutter speed of the cameras you have? Most cameras will default to a slow shutter in low light to allow them to gather maximum light input. You may need to set it away from auto and to 1/60 or 1/120th to get a less blurry picture. Also, as a dance floor is relatively well lit, I doubt you need a very slow shutter to get sufficient light to capture the atmosphere. Look at all the clubbing videos shot on Youtube by people using their compact cameras / phones on a night out. Most show a good representation of the action without using super slow shutters that blur all the action.