Reolink RLC-410-5MP streams out-of-sync

_Peek

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8x Reolink RLC-410-5MP cameras were purchased to replace 8x 2MP Jovision POE cameras.

However, BlueIris has never been the same again. Though the picture quality is better, everything else is problematic. Motion isn't detected properly. Playback is erratic. Triggers fire too late or not even at times. At times BlueIris thrashes the CPU, freezes or just crashes mixed in with some intermittency. :puke:

The only indication in BlueIris being a yellow triangle in the upper right corner of each camera view.

1637905180424.png

If the "Camera Settings" of each camera is opened, a yellow triangle is also displayed next to the main stream.

1637905227410.png

By disabling the sub stream the triangle disappears, but BlueIris then just thrashes on at mostly 100% CPU utilisation. So that's not a solution.

With Murphy also lingering around, I then also had to purchased a support extension to be able to upgrade to version 5.5.3.4 which didn't resolve the issue. Downgrading hasn't helped either. Three days later and no reply yet on the support email that was fired off to Perspective Software.

I've followed and tried numerous "older" recommendations on the boards. Reduced frame rates to 15fps. Played with the H.264 profiles. Nothing has as yet truly helped.

Comments back to 2018 referred to the main and sub stream being out of sync, yet were then resolved by itself through minor version upgrades.

As to touch all bases, all the cameras' firmware had been updated, being as follows:
  • Build No.build 20121100
  • Hardware No.IPC_51516M5M
  • Config Versionv3.0.0.0
  • Firmware Versionv3.0.0.136_20121100
  • DetailsIPC_51516M5MS10E1W01100000001
Within the Reolink app, all is smooth. With BlueIris it is basically useless. And it seems like Reolink Support will only be shrugging their shoulders.

Any advise .. ? Anyone ...
 

user8963

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You can ask reolink on reddit or via email what is going on.

Here you will only hear the truth, which you are not willing to believe.

short:
send all reolink cams back if you can, if not trash them and buy real cameras OR buy their nvr and stop using blueiris
 

mat200

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8x Reolink RLC-410-5MP cameras were purchased to replace 8x 2MP Jovision POE cameras.

However, BlueIris has never been the same again. Though the picture quality is better, everything else is problematic. Motion isn't detected properly. Playback is erratic. Triggers fire too late or not even at times. At times BlueIris thrashes the CPU, freezes or just crashes mixed in with some intermittency. :puke:

The only indication in BlueIris being a yellow triangle in the upper right corner of each camera view.

View attachment 109765

If the "Camera Settings" of each camera is opened, a yellow triangle is also displayed next to the main stream.

View attachment 109766

By disabling the sub stream the triangle disappears, but BlueIris then just thrashes on at mostly 100% CPU utilisation. So that's not a solution.

With Murphy also lingering around, I then also had to purchased a support extension to be able to upgrade to version 5.5.3.4 which didn't resolve the issue. Downgrading hasn't helped either. Three days later and no reply yet on the support email that was fired off to Perspective Software.

I've followed and tried numerous "older" recommendations on the boards. Reduced frame rates to 15fps. Played with the H.264 profiles. Nothing has as yet truly helped.

Comments back to 2018 referred to the main and sub stream being out of sync, yet were then resolved by itself through minor version upgrades.

As to touch all bases, all the cameras' firmware had been updated, being as follows:
  • Build No.build 20121100
  • Hardware No.IPC_51516M5M
  • Config Versionv3.0.0.0
  • Firmware Versionv3.0.0.136_20121100
  • DetailsIPC_51516M5MS10E1W01100000001
Within the Reolink app, all is smooth. With BlueIris it is basically useless. And it seems like Reolink Support will only be shrugging their shoulders.

Any advise .. ? Anyone ...
Welcome @_Peek

iirc Blue Iris needs the iframes = fps to do it's calculations .. and iirc Reolink cheats on that ..

So many here have been very unhappy with Reolink ( feel free to search the forum thread titles for Reolink .. )
 

wittaj

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You went from an unknown piece of crap camera to a a well-known piece of crap camera LOL.

Blue Iris and Reolinks do not work well together, but the same principles applies for almost any low end consumer grade camera. It is just Reolinks is one of the more consumer end cameras people buy and come to this site as to why it is pointed out often about. I have a cheapo camera for overview purposes so it doesn't matter, but it exhibits this same behavior even though in the settings I can set an iframe...

This was a screenshot of a member here where they had set these cameras to 15FPS within the cameras (and look some of the sub FPS were dropped to 5 and KEY of 0.25 which is a recipe for missed motion):

1637942558373.png

Now look at they key - that is the iframes ratio. Blue Iris works best when the FPS and the iframes match. Now this is a ratio, so it should be a 1.00 if it matches the FPS. The iframes not matching (that you cannot fix or change with a reolink) is why they miss motion in Blue Iris and why people have problems. This is mainly why people are having issues with these cameras and there are many threads showing the issues people have with this manufacturer and Blue Iris. It is these same games that make the camera look great as a still image or video but turn to crap once motion is introduced.

The Blue Iris developer has indicated that for best reliability, sub stream frame rate should be equal to the main stream frame rate and these cameras cannot do that and there is nothing you can do about that with these cameras... The iframe rates (something these cameras do not allow you to set) should equal the FPS, but at worse case be no more than double. This example shows the cameras going down to a keyrate of 0.25 means that the iframe rates are over 4 times the FPS and that is why motion detection is a disaster with these cameras and Blue Iris...A value of 0.5 or less is considered insufficient to trust for motion triggers reliably...try to do DeepStack and it will be useless...

A key of 0.25 means that if the object can be in and off of your camera view in under 4 seconds, it will miss the motion. Folks have seen the key drop to 0.10 with these cams, which means if an object is not on your screen for longer than 10 seconds, it will miss the motion.

Compounding the matter even worse...motion detection is based on the substream and look at the substream FPS - they dropped down to below 6 FPS with an iframe/key rate of 0.25 - you will miss motion most of the time with that issue...DeepStack probably won't work at all...

Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either.

Now compare above to mine and cameras that follow industry standards that allow you to actually set parameters and they don't manipulate them. You will see that my FPS match what I set in the camera, and the 1.00 key means the iframe matches:

1637942582689.png


Return them if you can.

Here is the unofficial thread showing all the issues folks have with Reolinks. Despite our repeated attempts to ask people to share a good quality night time motion video, as you will see, it doesn't exist. If all you care about knowing is what time something happened, then maybe these are the right cameras if the person is in the field of view long enough, but you will never be able to IDENTIFY them...

 

_Peek

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I TRULY appreciate the truth. Thank You Sir.

However, what would you recommend as an equivalent replacement ?

Requirements being:

  • BlueIris (Yes, I'm stubborn)
  • 5MP
  • POE
  • Night time

No person, vehicle detection or whatever on the camera. Therefore I've got BlueIris + Deepstack (That stubbornness :cool:)
 

user8963

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Post the model number of your joivision camera
maybe its just a hikvision rebrand, so you will have only little benefit by buying new 2mp cameras (less expensive)

so if price doesnt matter, go for IPC-T5442T-ZE , can buy black friday offer from andy,
9x 165 = 1485usd

if you exacly know which focal length you need (2.8/3.6/6mm ) you can buy IPC-T5442TM-AS and save some money (140usd)
 

_Peek

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Unfortunately price is a serious consideration, especially as we're down South... where the exchange is not in our favour and human life doesn't have much value either and where criminals ain't caught or simply let free.

The purpose is primarily to alert rather than identify. The simple logic of fleeing, arming or assisting rather than identifying the aftermath, which is always the same ...

Motion detection with Deepstack analysis followed by alerting is critical.

I expect the first reply to be: "You can't put a price on life, buy the best". But that is not reality and others would then rather go without. ie. Think of $140USD converted to $2280 and you only earn $10 000.00 per month (120 000/year) of which you need at least 8 cameras to cover all areas. Would that still be affordable...

The quest is therefore for the cheapest POE IP cameras that supports an iframe & fps ratio of 1.0 and will work solidly with BlueIris&Deepstack.
 

user8963

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Seems that you already be on the hook up street...

still not posted the model number and now some self-talk ?
 

IAmATeaf

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What was wrong with your old cams?

The majority of my cams are all still 2Mp and work fine. I take a peace meal approach, so around 6 months ago I upgraded 2 of them to 4Mp 5442 cams and redeployed the old 2Mp cams. Helps to spread the cost a bit and means you don’t have to take a big hit in one go and you end up with decent cams.
 

_Peek

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:oops:

Just had to find them first. They're unbranded. Sun bleached. And I forgot the password ...

Web Interfaces does not have any information with lotsa spelling mistakes and even chinese mixed in for good measure.

ONVIF scan states:

Manufacturer: NVSIP
Model: NVSIP-IPC
FirmwareVersion: V2.5.624 - 20180515 17:38:00
 

_Peek

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Nothing is wrong with the old ones, except that they already have new owners. They just need to be installed.

... and ... I can't recall where I originally sourced them from.
 

_Peek

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Oh yeah, and their IR LED's are dead. No more night sensing, which is where I can really vouch for Deepstack's abilities in low light conditions.
 

_Peek

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1x Unbranded Plastic "Jovision" vs 7x Reolink Metal RLC-410-5MP

1638022893112.png
 

_Peek

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It just dawned on me. How about raising the sub stream's framerate to 15 @640x480 as the main stream is 15 @2560x1920.

And BlueIris responded with:

1638023321163.png

Is this a reasonable workaround or will the 0.03 - 0.04 difference come to haunt me on another day ? ...
 

_Peek

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1638024547581.png

First 7 lines: 16 @2560x1920 & 15 @640x480

Last line: 30 @2560x1920 & 15 @640x480
 

IAmATeaf

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BI is happiest when the key is set to 1, yours are all at 0.5, what this means is a key frame every 2 seconds which means that you could in theory miss the the vital frame when something triggers the cams.
 
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That's the problem with inexpensive 5MP cameras. They let you think you're setting frame and key frame (iframe) rates when they fool around with the real rate to "optimize" for a nice, clean, still picture which makes any motion a blur. Dahua and Hikvision, for two at least, let you actually set those rates along with shutter speed, which is really important at night, so you get useable video instead of smudges, blurred, useless, video.

Why you seem so determined to have 5MP is a little mystifying. A good 2MP camera will run rings around these "inexpensive" 5MP both day and night. A 5MP camera needs a sensor size of about 1/1.5" to be effective at night and no one makes a camera like that. Don't fall for megapixels, chase sensor size where bigger is better.

Compiled by mat200 -

720P - 1/3" = .333"
2MP - 1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
4MP - 1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
8MP - 1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)
 

wittaj

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Oh no, another hookup burn....

You need to decide what you want the system to provide - to be able to IDENTIFY or OBSERVE what is going on.

Here are a few guidelines and considerations as you piece something together.

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k on the wrong sensor will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

There is no ideal 5MP camera out there on the proper sensor. The 2MP will kick it's butt all night long.

To identify someone with the wide-angle 2.8mm lens that most people opt for (and what is in most kits), someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to eliminate motion blur at night.

1638032209968.png

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k Lorex cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed in to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car. That neighbor with the 4k started to replace with 2MP models based on what he saw my do compared to his.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.
  • 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
  • 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
  • 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
  • 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.
You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A wide angle 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area. Most of us here have different brands and types, from fixed cams, to varifocals, to PTZs, each one selected for it's primary purpose and to utilize the strength of that particular camera.

Now with that said, if you are mainly concerned about notifying you and your family first, then get a Dahua OEM like a Lorex or Amcrest that are comparable/cheaper than a Reolink. The Lorex and Amcrest are usually built with lessor materials and inferior sensors, but they work well with Blue Iris and you can set the parameters and they hold - it will certainly be better than the reos...
 
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