REVIEW - Dahua Ultra AI SD8A840WA-HNF 4K 40x PTZ

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Dec 9, 2018
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All, thanks to Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY ) we have a new heavy duty, hardcore 4K PTZ AI camera for testing. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review.

This test is of the SD8A840WA-HNF 4K 40x Starlight IR PTZ AI Network Camera. This PTZ is based on a 1/1.8” sensor with 5.6mm to 223mm focal length 40x optical zoom. While this AI PTZ does not offer the newer SMD plus it DOES offer Face Recognition (including in cam), Deep IVS & Object filtering as part of its AI features. These and many other features I will be testing in this review.

Please note this is a Hi-POE camera therefore requires up to 50w power so WILL NOT work on regular POE+ switches. Either PFT1200 midspan or Hi-POE / 802.3at supporting switches will work with this PTZ.

I will be covering configuration, AI setup for critical capture, tips and tricks on how to best utilize and obviously a rundown of image quality in day/night capture scenarios, really pushing this sensor to its limits.
Full specs below and will be adding initial pics & vids in post 2, AI feature breakdown and testing in post 3, tips and tricks on how to make these features work and other settings / menu functions in post 4 and a summary of findings / recommendations in post 5.

As always, if anyone has any questions as I go just leave a comment.


Links

Andy’s AliExpress Link
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000328442332.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.7.7b2046f2f9YBjy

Andy’s Amazon Link
To follow later

Andy’s PFT1200 Midspan adapter Link
To Follow later



Camera Details

Image Sensor - 1/1.8” STARVIS™ CMOS
Effective Pixels - 3840(H) x 2160(V), 8 Megapixels
Electronic Shutter Speed - 1/1s~1/30,000s
Minimum Illumination
Color: 0.002Lux@F1.4​
B/W: 0.0002Lux@F1.4​
0Lux@F1.4 (IR on)​

IR Distance - Up to 500m (1640ft)
IR LEDs - 10
Smart Wiper


Lens Information

Focal Length - 5.6mm~223mm
Max. Aperture - F1.4~ F4.8
Angle of View
H: 63.9° ~ 2.0°​
V: 37.2° ~ 1.2°​
D: 71.2° ~ 2.4°​

Optical Zoom - 40x
Close Focus Distance - 100mm~ 1000mm

DORI Distance
Detect - 4400m(14435ft）​
Observe - 1740m(5708ft)​
Recognize - 880m(2887ft)​
Identify - 440m(1443ft)​

----

So lets jump in with some pictures but rather than just pics of the cam itself, I thought it would be good to compare size of the unit vs 49225, 59xxx series (more to come on this one in pic) and the 4K. So here you are

Cam 1.jpg

The lineup for comparison :)

Cam Size Comparison.jpg


Couple of profile images of the 4K

Cam Profile Pic 1.jpg Cam Back of Unit With SD Slot Door.jpg

2 pics of the PFB306W that comes with the camera. This thing is a little longer than the usual 305 (needed as gives more clearance from a wall if installing with the arm and a PFA120) and has a VERY useful little door that you can unscrew to gain easier access to the cabling.

PFB306 Arm 1.jpg PFB306 Arm 2 Close.jpg

Little tip here, when installing using the 306W pull CAT 6 cable run from your wall / conduit through this hola and leave hanging down. Then install the cam to the arm and as you feed its connector along drop it through the same hole. Then after securing the cam with the carabiner and chain you can a) pull excess cam cable through the hole (so you can attach cam to the mount more freely) and b) when you are securing and weatherproofing the cable connect you have both in easy reach of the opening and can push back into the space easier when complete.


Spec Sheet For Full Details

Attached to post
 

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Post #2 - Initial Videos & Pics

Post 2.1 - Daytime 4K Footage - Auto Tracking Test & AI
This post is in 4K & ProRes however YouTube takes its time to convert so make sure you at least choose 1080p HD



Post 2.2 - Daytime 4K Footage - 30' Install Auto Tracking
I re-positioned the cam up 30' for further daytime testing. Here is another one for your, night will be next. Make sure you choose 1080p HD

]

Post 2.3 - Assorted Nighttime Footage
As promised here is a collection of night time captures. After this we will then look at AI features in Post #3.

So before we dive into the video I need to make 1 thing clear, remember, 4K at night is tough for any cam and therefore for you to get optimal caps you need to balance lighting vs config carefully. To be crystal clear about 4K at night, this requires GREAT LIGHT, ok light or good light etc is not going to cut it. Either way, you need to spend time on the image as hopefully you’ll see what can be possible when you move from out of the box to more dialed in within my video (checkout 2:43 for dialed in).

With that said, this camera unfortunately does struggle at night out of the box. Outside of the 4K light requirement I mentioned above there are a couple of other reasons which I will summarize quickly:
  1. Older 1/1.8” sensor. The newer versions of this size of sensor such as in the x842 cams are improved from a sensor/optic pairing perspective than on this slightly older revision. As I’ve mentioned in other reviews, not all sensors are created equal.
  2. In my testing, this camera does have a SmartIR issue where it doesn’t adjust quickly enough causing soft focus (more of this in a bit) and wash. Specifically this camera has an amazing Far IR mode BUT when this kicks in, the SmartIR doesn’t adjust and therefore IR can wash out the image.
  3. I also noticed an issue with focus at full wide at night. Looks to be a combination of optic & ICR issue (more on this as well below).

I tested this at different mount points ranging from 9’ to 12’ then to the last videos at 30’. Purposefully tested with foreground and background obstacles and areas that would cause splash back. In all cases there was a minimum of 2 x 250w bulbs casting ambient light on the scene and that is it. Leaving as much to default as possible in the first few videos, I was noting higher noise / grain and a lot more focus hunting than I would like to see even though I expected some of this from the 4K sensor and lighting in location.

Before we discuss options to improve the image lets take a look quickly at items 2 & 3 above. Lets start with soft wide focus. What I’ve found is that when moving to night mode (B&W), as the camera adjusts at full wide it will adopt soft focus. You apply extra focus (in cam) and you’ll see it shudders but won’t actually adjust. The only way I’ve found to get around this currently is to zoom about 4x in and at that stage you can focus as expected.

The Smart IR issue is as I reported on the early FW of the B5442. Specifically that it can wash out an area, face etc and does not adjust to compensate.

These 2 issues are addressed in the latest 2020 FW for this model of camera which is great. HOWEVER, the board revision and internals have changed slightly so therefore this specific build of this model I have in hand (slightly older) cannot currently take this firmware. On this note, Andy & I (thanks Andy !) are working with Dahua to see if we can get the baseline version adjusted so that the firmware will be compatible. If Dahua can assist here then this would resolve 2 big issues that are limiting the nighttime performance of the cam right now. New purchases of this cam should NOT have this FW issue.

Now lets talk about nighttime tracking, which is good, HOWEVER the issues I listed above do cause it issues and can mean a shot does not get captured as you would want / desire or need. THE PFA or Predictive Focus Algorithm on this cam also gets confused or focus hunts due to issues 2 and 3 as you’ll see on and off in the first few minutes of the video.

So, even with the issues I list above, I knew I could do better / wanted better from this camera so with a little tweaking you can see what is possible when dialing in the image to counter for the scene and for the sensor and the above issues (fixed in FW). While no means are all issues mitigated, it gives a much more usable image in my opinion. Starting at 2:53 in the video you will see I first dial the image in for auto tracking improvements and then at 3:22 dial in for better image (compensate further for IR wash and focus) and tracking while reducing focus hunt.

Take a look and see what you think (remember to select 1080p).

 
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AI Features - Face Recognition - In Cam & On NVR

Thought I would show everyone the Face Recognition AI features, how it works, how to configure completely on camera as well as the results of an indoor test as well.

The blurriness and lower image quality is due to the screen cap software rather than the cam.

The feature works very well indeed. Will also possibly re-mount and get some outside footage as well. You can set alarms when faces match OR when faces don’t match. You can also use face detection to grab images of people crossing your scene then later save those down and turn them around to use for face recognition. Lots of possibilities. Can also setup multiple databases for say employees vs visitors vs strangers on scene etc

Enjoy.


 
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Final Thoughts & Summary

As always with any review I do, I like to give my thoughts, impressions, findings for what they’re worth, so let me summarize for this cam.

Overall this really is a very good camera for sure. The image during the day is phenomenally good and as I showed in some of my videos even has the ability to not only lock on and adjust to a target quickly BUT also create a bokeh effect separating foreground target from background. At night, this camera (as with any 4K cam) needs more care and attention. By that I mean not just light but taking the time to dial in the image for the install location as I showed in my nighttime video’s. If you take the time to do this, you will be impressed with the results. Just don’t expect this to be out of the box and operate in 0 light or you will be disappointed.

Onto features where this cam has some great ones built in. First, as expected you get Pro AI features such as Object Filtering etc and then on top of that you gain Ultra AI features such as video metadata (Human, Vehicle, Non-Motor Vehicle) overlays AND Face Recognition. All of these work as expected BUT the Face Recognition on cam (or NVR if you want it there too) works exceptionally well and amazingly quick. In other words if you have this targeting highly populated areas it can easily keep up with multiple faces at once. Then having the blacklist and whitelist options makes this even stronger, coupled with the ability to have it Face Detect and use those same faces to populate the database, very cool.

Now with that said, one feature I think that is lacking from this cam is………….ANPR. Dahua does feature that on some of the Ultra 2MP PTZ’s like the SD8A250WA-HNF but not the higher end 4K’s and thats a real shame. You can see that on this 4K cam it absolutely has the power to do it AND even captures the required still shots to process as you’ll see from my final clips below BUT doesn’t have ANPR enabled in firmware. To be fair, most PTZ’s don’t, just would be an awesome addition to this camera.


Pro’s
  • Daytime image is superb, like really good. Image is crisp, handles contrast well ! :)
  • Auto tracking (IVS based) works incredibly well during day
  • Color reproduction is on point with natural, non washed out images out of the box
  • Speed of processing of this PTZ is exceptionally quick on Face and other target requisition
  • Ability to separate foreground from background in real-time with Auto Tracking is effortless to this camera
  • Enables you to search local playback by spot and by range meaning you can either choose a preset to search for captures in OR between 2 areas of a camera path such as show me everything between road and garage door just by selecting FOV on screen, very cool !
    Ability to annotate the live view, great for real-time monitoring based needs
  • Shortest Path option when setting a tour, rather than just move arbitrarily between Presets the camera finds the quickest path between each which in practice works very well
  • Wiper, couldn’t leave this off, works very well on auto mode or can trigger manually

Con’s
  1. Feels held back by firmware (ANPR, SMD Plus etc)
  2. Auto Tracking needs further dialing in for night use, more so than some other PTZ's BUT take the time and it works well.
  3. Focus & SmartIR issue BUT these are fixed in later firmware. Will update more if Andy and I are able to get Dahua to re-baseline for this specific cam I am using.
  4. 16k bit rate, this is standard across a lot of the Dahua line currently and for 4K is a bare minimum in my testing. I would like to see this increased to at least 20k as an option and if it opened up to 40k (fully understand not everyone will ever need this) like the older 5231’s etc then that would be ideal for flexibility in situations.

Nice to Have’s But Not Dealbreakers
  • Only supports up to 30fps, having the option for 60 allows for a lot more expansion with face recognition which although runs fine here would be nice to have the headroom in fps if needed
  • No ability on Playback (in camera) to select type of picture filter (CarDetect etc doesn’t exist in cam) means you have to scan a lot of images on cam, solved if using AI NVR etc but thought it was worth pointing out for those that use SD cards etc.
  • ANPR, this camera is fast enough to process it and would make an AMAZING addition

Couple of Quick Pics Of The Additional Interface / Toolbar Options I Mentioned In The Pro's Section

PTZ Toolbar
PTZ Toolbar.jpg

Start Time FileType Option In Playback
Start Time File Type Toolbar.jpg

Search By Spot & Range For In Cam Playback
Search By Spot.jpg Search by Range.jpg

Shortest Path Option for Tour
Shortest Path PTZ Tour Mode.jpg



This cam really does show that for the right budget and install needs just how far 4K has come even within the Dahua range

As always, please reach out with any questions. Hope you’ve enjoyed this review
 
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Parley said:
Looking forward to the pictures. :) Now that Dahua is back in business I hope my SD8A820WA-HNF shows up this month.
Click to expand...
Aha, yes, i think next week can be done!
 
So for Post #2:
What would happen with a few perps in the filed of view? Would the captures pick up all of them? What about the auto tracking? Who would it track? If one stopped moving, and the others continued to move would it hold on the stopped guy?

I understand the glasses and mask (you do not want to be IDed on youtube?), but why the gloves?
 
Hahah, lots of good questions :) Lets start with the gloves, had them on for the install, forgot to take them off :)

Auto track, will only be able to determine 1 prominent target at a time, it can of course switch to others as the original target leaves the scene of becomes less prominent BUT still 1 target at a time. Face Recognition and Vide Structuralization can process multiple Faces/Bodies at a time, pretty much anything in its field of view that it can move through quickly, therefore would pickup and tag multiples.

HTH


samplenhold said:
So for Post #2:
What would happen with a few perps in the filed of view? Would the captures pick up all of them? What about the auto tracking? Who would it track? If one stopped moving, and the others continued to move would it hold on the stopped guy?

I understand the glasses and mask (you do not want to be IDed on youtube?), but why the gloves?
Click to expand...
 
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It is and I can tell you that when you put this in one arm up a 24 ft ladder, it likes to kick back at you :)

BTW I'm purposefully installing this on a couple of PTZ arms at different heights for this testing. That way those that need medium height installs get a good idea as well of those that prefer / need lower (garage door height etc). Seems to be more interest in the low to medium height tests (from questions I've received) vs the high in this case.

HTH

th182 said:
I'm drooling! That thing is a BEAST!
Click to expand...
 
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your neighbors probably think you are crazy...

great auto tracking. cant wait to see night vids
 
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Impressed with the autotracking and the quality of the picture but jeeez look at the size of the monster it would definitely command it's own post or brisk bearing wall.
 
This camera could replace TV news camera's out in the field. Looks that good.
Would look great at my house too! But dang... I thought having 12 or 13 x $200 cameras was spendy :)
 
All, just wanted to update that don't worry, more vids and AI features incoming. Unfortunately had a water leak this past week which has slowed my normal turnaround down a little. Also trying to help others directly with their cams here, making sure all enjoy the systems they've bought into. So don't worry, video and much more coming on this and another unit (will speak about this soon), just taking a little longer than I would have liked due to the leak :)

And yes....this camera is a beast for sure but in a good way :) I'm moving it between multiple PTZ mounts to get differing caps for everyone here and I tell you what, its an arm workout :)
 
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