Running All Cameras Through A Switch

philcav7

n3wb
Joined
Apr 15, 2021
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Let me preface, I’m not a networking guy. I’ve done the basics of networking but am slow and resort to reading a lot of instruction for guidance.

I currently have POE cameras ran directly to my NVR in my utility room in the basement and was a plug & play install. System is monitored via HIK connect iPhone app.

I would like to move the NVR to another area and connect the cameras to a POE switch in my utility room. Using a single cable from the switch to the NVR.

Please let me know if I’m on the right track…
Connect cams to switch and run into POe port on NVR. Connect router to either NVR or Switch (does it make a difference?)
Obtain IP’s for cameras and manually add them to to each camera channel of NVR. Enjoy.

Am I overlooking anything or is there anything I should be aware of? It seems like it should be pretty straightforward.
 

fenderman

Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
34,859
Reaction score
16,281
Let me preface, I’m not a networking guy. I’ve done the basics of networking but am slow and resort to reading a lot of instruction for guidance.

I currently have POE cameras ran directly to my NVR in my utility room in the basement and was a plug & play install. System is monitored via HIK connect iPhone app.

I would like to move the NVR to another area and connect the cameras to a POE switch in my utility room. Using a single cable from the switch to the NVR.

Please let me know if I’m on the right track…
Connect cams to switch and run into POe port on NVR. Connect router to either NVR or Switch (does it make a difference?)
Obtain IP’s for cameras and manually add them to to each camera channel of NVR. Enjoy.

Am I overlooking anything or is there anything I should be aware of? It seems like it should be pretty straightforward.
This is perfectly normal. Use a gigabit switch (or a 10/100 switch with a 1gb uplink)
 

aadje93

n3wb
Joined
Apr 28, 2022
Messages
12
Reaction score
4
Location
Netherlands
Even using multiple high quality switches in series still works fine. Every NVR also has a internal switch to supply the POE ports if its a POE model.

My "worst" placed camera's go through 3 switches before reaching the Blue Iris PC (The NVR), and i don't notice alot of difference in stutters compared to cams directly on the same switch, but i run Ubiquiti and HP Elite model switches, which are not your average unmanaged consumer switches.... Longest distance from the Blue iris PC to a camera is over 150m cable through the 3 switches before it reaches the Blue iris PC, and still works fine as long as you use high quality cable and switches.

A normal file transfer works with "retry if it didnt work", but on a video stream without source file (like a IP cam) it can't retry as the camera wont have a huge frame buffer, probarly less then a second, maybe even non-existent on our class of IP camera's. I suspect the top of the range IP cams to have a bit of frame buffer, but thats my thingking, not actual knowledge of the datasheets ;)
 

philcav7

n3wb
Joined
Apr 15, 2021
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Thanks. Funny you mention ubiquiti, I was going to use their gear for my networking and cameras that I installed last year. Unfortunately, they were out of stock everywhere at the time. I got sick of waiting so I went with a high end netgear router, basic gig switch for my cat 6 data runs, and standalone NVR for security.

I will keep my existing 8 port unmanaged switch in place and add a Poe switch for the cameras. Currently have 6 cameras so and 8 port will be full. Not sure if I will add any other cams. My property is pretty well covered.

Any recommendations for a good switch on the cameras? Do I need a buffer with power budget over what the cameras will use
 

aadje93

n3wb
Joined
Apr 28, 2022
Messages
12
Reaction score
4
Location
Netherlands
Yes, and you will probarly need alot of power buffer, without getting to technical, its cheaper to get multiple small power units to server a few ports then 1 big power unit to service all ports... Works the same with Computer power supplies (single rail vs multiple rails for power delivery)

I have the 16 port 150w POE model as main unit for the camera's, a 8 port 4POE model, but when i run 8 cams on 1 of the 2x 8port blocks on the 16port (see picture, clearly 2 blocks of 8 ports visible) then it will have unreliable function to some camera's. When i put like 5-6 cams on 1 8port block its fine and 5-6 on the other those are fine to, 8 on one and 3 on the other and you have random RSTP failures (at least in Blue iris) but web interface still reachable so cams working...

So its more 2x 75w instead of 150w 16port on this unit.



But maybe thats just my model, it could be a "monday morning" model as they call it sometimes, not realy 100%, but did pass the Quality Control testing. But i realy think its dual 75W poe.

I think higher end HP POE switches are truly single rail.

Also don't forget IR/LED on the camera's draws extra power, so does H265 as its also a bit more processing on the camera, just like motion detection functions, you are looking into 1-2w, but on 10 camera's thats 10-20w, and that could be just to much for the switch to handle. After all, you are sending device power over a system not originally designed to do that ;).


At last, i highly suggest running awg23 solid core 100% copper to the cams. Yes that may seem overpriced.

But;
1. Its less power loss due to bigger diameter cable (less resistance) so less strain on the switch to provide enough power (The device pulls the power, the switch limits its maximum) You will get (significant) losses on standard cat5 cable if you are doing >50m runs
2. AWG 23 network cable will almost allways have shielding, so less interference. Maybe not needed for our low bitrates. But who knows, maybe that cable will get to be a feed for a downrange switch, as is in my case (1 cam now is 4 cams so cable is not through the wall but internal on a switch and a couple small cables <5m to all the cams where origianlly had 1 cam outdoors)
3. Almost guaranteed to be 100% copper, they wont make CCA in awg23 (never seen it)

4. Please, make sure to not buy CCA. Good quality cable is a lifetime investment, you won't ever replace it. Also don't buy cheap connectors. Make good quality cable + connections, I noticed image quality degradation on 1 cam due to the cables being exposed a bit to much outside the connector, and a mains power line running right behind the camera pulling ~20amps so it had a magnetic field big enough to interfere with the camera. Even with the network cable crossing it 90°
 

philcav7

n3wb
Joined
Apr 15, 2021
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Thanks for that info, I will look at a good 8 port switch for the cameras and add another if needed. I’m not really sure what the power requirement of my cams are, but can check. I don’t really use the NVR interface much, but I believe it shows POE consumption of each cam. I’m adding a PTZ so will make sure I leave some headroom for comfort.

I’m not gonna lie, I think most if not all of my cams are wired with premade cable. They are 24g stranded. I can’t recall what vendor they were from, but they weren’t bargain priced cable. I did cameras after I wired my home networking upgrade and was sick of doing terminations and installing keystones. I used 23g copper for all cables that I made for my data network. So far, I haven’t seen any disruption or issue with any cabling.
 

aadje93

n3wb
Joined
Apr 28, 2022
Messages
12
Reaction score
4
Location
Netherlands
Ptz will have its own transformer as the motors use to much for poe. A varifocal is on the limit, but a Ptz has a dedicated transformer 99 out of 100 maybe only the mini ptz runs on poe++
 

philcav7

n3wb
Joined
Apr 15, 2021
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Ptz will have its own transformer as the motors use to much for poe. A varifocal is on the limit, but a Ptz has a dedicated transformer 99 out of 100 maybe only the mini ptz runs on poe++
Thanks for the heads up.

I will be running a HIKvision mini PTZ. It’s a 802.3af with 12.2 max draw with IR.

I ordered a 8 port POe+ switch with a 124w total power budget and 30 max per port. So hopefully I have no issues. There is power near this camera location so if I need to run DC, it’s not a big deal
 
Top