Security camera recommendation

[Manis]

Hello!
Can someone help me with a security camera recommendation?
I installed a wifi NVR system a few years ago. These kind of security systems (NVR+4 wifi cameras+no subscription) seem to be available only from not-so-familiar brands. My NVR went bust after a couple of years. The manufacturer is recommending that I just buy another NVR unit. Don't want to do that given the quality of the original unit.

I have searched and searched the internet and haven't found the right system.

Does someone have a recommendation. Below are my requirements.
a. Has to be WiFi
b. Non-battery operated - I have access to power
c. non-subscription based. Local storage (NVR) is highly preferred
d. PIR. The old unit I had recorded whenever leaves on my tree moved..
e. Cost - hopefully in the $500 range
f. Resolution - I've seen the forums discussing resolution and sensor size.. just need something that doesn't produce fuzzy images
g. Audio/on camera siren/on camera light - no preference
h. Should support at least 3 cameras
i. Should support low Minneapolis,MN temps - min -30F or lower

Any recommendation is highly appreciated! If I have to put a system together from various components, I'm willing to do that too. Just need to be pointed in the right direction.

 

[wittaj]

You will not find anyone here recommending wifi cameras unless you are only doing dog and nature watching.

Wifi cameras are problematic for surveillance cameras because they are always streaming and passing data. And the data demands go up with motion and then you lose signal. A lost packet and it has to resend. It can bring the whole network down if trying to send cameras. You may say you didn't have a problem, but you just didn't know it.

Unlike Netflix and other streaming services that buffer a movie, these cameras do not buffer up part of the video, so drop outs are frequent. You would be amazed how much streaming services buffer - don't believe me, start watching something and unplug your router and watch how much longer you can watch NetFlix before it freezes - mine goes 45 seconds. Now do the same with a camera connected to a router and it is fairly instantaneous (within the latency of the stream itself)...


That is a low budget and the capabilities of a 4 camera system and NVR in that price range will only let you know what time something happened and not be able to IDENTIFY perps.


Many of us have been there and started with that 4 camera big box store system.

I started with four 2.8mm cameras and I was like "I can place one on each corner of the house and see my whole property and the whole neighborhood." A newbie loves the wide angle "I can see the whole neighborhood" of the 2.8mm fixed wide angle lens. I LOVED IT WHEN I PUT IT UP. I could see everything that would be blocked looking out the windows.

It is easy to get lured in to thinking the wide angle "see the whole neighborhood" because you are watching it and you see a neighbor go by and you are like "Look at that I can tell that is Heather out walking." and "Yeah I can tell our neighbor 4 down just passed by". Or you watch back the video of you walking around and are like "yeah I can tell that is me".

Little do we realize how much WE can identify a known person just by hair style, clothing, walking pace, gait, etc.

Then one day the door checker comes by. Total stranger. Totally useless video other than what time the door checking happened. I was so furious my system let me down.

Then you realize that this wide-angle see the whole neighborhood comes at a cost and that cost is not being able to IDENTIFY who did it. These 2.8mm wide angle cameras are great overview cameras or to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet of the camera if the camera is installed less than 9 feet hight. At 40 feet out or a higher install you need a different camera.

And like most, I stuck these wide angle cameras on the 2nd story to be able to see even more, which then means any IDENTIFY distance is lost vertically. Someone needs to be within 10-13 feet to identify someone with a 2.8mm lens. A camera placed 16-20 feet up means the entire IDENTIFY distance is lost in the vertical direction. They could be one foot away horizontally, but at 20 feet high, you will only get a good shot at the top of the head...

So then we start adding more cameras and varifocal cameras so that we can optically zoom in to pinch points and other areas of interest to get the clean IDENTIFY captures of someone. While the varifocals are great at helping to identify at a distance, they come at a cost of a reduced field of view, just like the wide-angles are great at seeing a wide area, but they come at the expense of IDENTIFY at distance.


Now with all that said, if you want to adhere to that budget, then look at Lorex or Amcrest. They are Dahua OEM but are made with lesser sensors and materials to keep the price down, but it will be better than any image at night from a Reolink or Arlo or Swann or Night Owl other big box store systems.

But really consider wiring and a higher budget. Or use a powerline adapter to send data thru electric wires, but that would be more than your budget.

But take some time on a real computer to review this forum and look at the wiki's for more information and then ask questions.

 

[Flintstone61]

I'm asking my nephew, he inherited a Wifi system in Plymouth when he leased some retail space. I guess it's been running for 4 years without any trouble.
It could be just as " no name" questionable quality as your unit, it's just been in a temperature controlled environment.
He also put one in his house. I tried to offer him to wire it Cat5e,,,,but he ran Mickeymouse extension cords to power the " wireless" wifi cams.

 

[mat200]

Hello!
Can someone help me with a security camera recommendation?
I installed a wifi NVR system a few years ago. These kind of security systems (NVR+4 wifi cameras+no subscription) seem to be available only from not-so-familiar brands. My NVR went bust after a couple of years. The manufacturer is recommending that I just buy another NVR unit. Don't want to do that given the quality of the original unit.

I have searched and searched the internet and haven't found the right system.

Does someone have a recommendation. Below are my requirements.
a. Has to be WiFi
b. Non-battery operated - I have access to power
c. non-subscription based. Local storage (NVR) is highly preferred
d. PIR. The old unit I had recorded whenever leaves on my tree moved..
e. Cost - hopefully in the $500 range
f. Resolution - I've seen the forums discussing resolution and sensor size.. just need something that doesn't produce fuzzy images
g. Audio/on camera siren/on camera light - no preference
h. Should support at least 3 cameras
i. Should support low Minneapolis,MN temps - min -30F or lower

Any recommendation is highly appreciated! If I have to put a system together from various components, I'm willing to do that too. Just need to be pointed in the right direction.

Welcome @Manis

Can you setup a wired IP PoE system ? ( some people rent, and can not do that .. )

 

[Manis]

Welcome @Manis

Can you setup a wired IP PoE system ? ( some people rent, and can not do that .. )

Yes, I can install a system.. but not sure what's required for the PoE system

 

[Gargoile]

All one would need is a Wi-Fi jammer for $139 and it will defeat your entire video surveillance and notification system.

 

[Manis]

All one would need is a Wi-Fi jammer for $139 and it will defeat your entire video surveillance and notification system.

Sure. I was not thinking of the security of the security cameras.. Do you have a recommended alternate solution?

 

[Gargoile]

Sure. I was not thinking of the security of the security cameras.. Do you have a recommended alternate solution?

Your approach is missing the most critical component. What is your intended outcome of your security cameras? Are you looking for just awareness or are you wanting to make sure you have a clear identity of a subject? From there then we can help provide guidance.

 

[Manis]

Your approach is missing the most critical component. What is your intended outcome of your security cameras? Are you looking for just awareness or are you wanting to make sure you have a clear identity of a subject? From there then we can help provide guidance.

Clarity, but 50 ft is more than sufficient for my purposes. I just want to be able to identify if someone's not picking up after their dog (got a poop abandonment problem) and identify potential burglers (cat converter and package theft). Neither of them need more than 50 ft visibility

 

[mat200]

Clarity, but 50 ft is more than sufficient for my purposes. I just want to be able to identify if someone's not picking up after their dog (got a poop abandonment problem) and identify potential burglers (cat converter and package theft). Neither of them need more than 50 ft visibility

You want to ID at 50 feet?

During the day?
or
In low light?

 

[Manis]

You want to ID at 50 feet?

During the day?
or
In low light?

Yes on id. Both day and night if possible. But day 50 ft and night 25 ft should be acceptable

 

[mat200]

Yes on id. Both day and night if possible. But day 50 ft and night 25 ft should be acceptable

Hi @Manis

Check out the cliff notes, DORI section ..

IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes

Information in this section was contributed by [URL='https://ipcamtalk.com/members/mat200.29441/'][COLOR=#0000b3]@matt200[/COLOR][/URL] and [URL='https://ipcamtalk.com/members/giomania.36271/'][COLOR=#0000b3]@giomania [/COLOR][/URL] [/LIST] Any dedicated manufacturer NVR should match...

ipcamtalk.com

So you want 100 ppf to the 50 foot mark.. see the equation:

The equation to calculate the Radius (the distance in feet) for identification for 100 ppf as discussed above: Radius = (( Horizontal Res / 100 ppf ) * ( 360 / Angle ))/2*Pi

Thus

50 feet = (( horizontal res / 100 ppf )* (360 / Angle ))/ 2*Pi

look for a 4MP 1/1.8" model or 8mp 1/1.2" model for horizontal resolution .. ( 8MP 3840×2160 is typical .. 3840 = Horizontal Resolution .. unless you put it in portrait mode )

so

50 =((3840/100)*(360/Angle))/2*Pi
2*pi*50 / (3840/100) = (360/Angle)

Angle =360/(2*pi*50 / (3840/100) )

That gives you the FOV you will need with a 8MP camera, if you want good low light you will want a 8MP with a 1/1.2" sensor ..

You're looking at a varifocal camera to get that FOV or one with a stronger lens ..

my guess you will need to either increase your budget or lower your expectations on performance ..

 

[wittaj]

If you buy an NVR with POE ports, it is simply running an ethernet cable from the NVR to each camera location.

Or you can buy a non-POE NVR or a computer and run Blue Iris and then it is just a POE switch.

Nothing magical about a POE system except it is hard wired with an ethernet cable and more stable than wifi.

To IDENTIFY at 50 feet out, none of the 4-camera big box store kits will suffice. You need more optical zoom.

See this thread I compiled showing the importance of camera focal length versus MP. This thread is complete with camera recommendations based on distance.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[mat200]

HI @Manis

Consider a 4MP varifocal 1/1.8" sensor Dahua OEM model from Andy .. more affordable than the 8MP 1/1.2" cameras ..

I'd pickup one of those cameras and a small PoE switch and decent length of cat5e/6 cable with copper wires of 23 24 AWG and play with that ( look for the test rig here in the forum for an example of what other have used to test their setups ).

Once you learn more, you can then perhaps keep that for the view you need the best range ( and tighter FOV ) and use more affordable models for places you do not need longer ID distances.