Sensor size - confused

larryhagman

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I am considering buying a PTZ Hikvision camera.

1. DS-2DE5425IW-AE - 1/2.5" progressive scan CMOS

2. DS-2DF8223I-AEL(W) - 1/1.9”HD CMOS sensor

Which is the bigger sensor, I don't understand these figures. Anyone know which camera is newer/better?
thanks
 

SouthernYankee

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Turn it into a decimal. Bigger is better

Camera Sensor size info Sensor Size Chart Generally bigger is better

The other major factor is light sensitivity LUX


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larryhagman

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Thanks. I am still confused here. It looks like 1/1.9" is bigger than 1/25" going by that link you kindly gave me.

I urgently need to decide which camera, and it's tricky to suss out. I want auto tracking of persons moving in the frame. Some pages I have read online suggest they both do it ,but the Hikvision data sheets suggest onto the Darkfighter (1/1.9") one does it. Is there any way to find out which year each was released? I have googled for ages but can't suss the ages out, which I was going to use as a guide to the "better" camera. perhaps that's a mistake in itself!

In case anyone knows, here are the two cameras:

1.
2.
1 doesn't say it has smart tracking in the doc, but some sites I read suggest it does.

2 looks like it does (going by icons at top of doc), but doesn't explicitly say so in the tech data underneath. Confused!!

Short version - which is better bang for buck, if both priced the same?

thanks
 

sebastiantombs

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My two cents on this are that the DS-2DF8223I-AEL is a better camera in low light situations. That is based on the LUX rating only and no experience with either. The lower the LUX rating, the better the video in low light situations. It also seems to have a higher zoom capability as well as smart functions, AI. As looney2nes always says, you want to know who did it, not just what happened.
 

aristobrat

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IMO, the one with the 1/1.9" image sensor should do better in low light. As for auto-tracking, how that works seems to be a gamble, at least with Dahua. Dahua has a range of PTZ models and based on the user review threads I've seen in the Dahua sub-forum here, auto-tracking works significantly better on some models than others. That may not be an issue with Hikvision models, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.
 

larryhagman

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Thanks. I have seen good reviews of the Hikvision smart tracking, but I am not expecting amazing performance. It's a bit overkill for my needs.
I have a smallholding (tiny farm). We have a nut case who keeps coming onto our land. We have also had some very oddly butchered sheep for a few years. I once looked up at the boundary of our land which is 300-400 yards away and about 300-400 yards wide (a horizontal boundary perpendicular to the house/camera site). I want to pan across that, zoomed in, on a patrol schedule, with alerts ideally. I haev an Acusense NVR on its way to me, and HOPING the Acusense human only alerts will be able to work with the PTZ anywhere in its patrol area, maybe lots of boxes or one long box/line to detect. It's a long shot, not sure it will work, but will soon find out. Smart tracking therefore isn't essential, but it would help if I cant get alerts to work well, as I will at least hoepfully have a camera which picks up the intruder and zooms in for a better look than I can get down here with binoculars (seen him twice at long range, and he legged it when I took the dog to meet him :D )
 

larryhagman

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This particular dog needs guidance. He would kill anyone including any member of my family except me, so he needs his 30 foot line so that when he has finished eating, he comes back to me instead of looking for a desert. :D
 

timb999

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Hi...I have owned both of these, so can hopefully help.

The 5425IW does not have smart tracking. The 8223I does have smart tracking (although I have not tried it yet!)

The 8223I is the better camera for sure, in terms of low light and IR. However, it is older, so any you buy now are going to be used, or new old stock.

The only thing the 5425 is better at, apart from being 4mp vs 2mp, is it will do 60fps @ 1080p, which is silky smooth. The 8223I can’t do any 60fps.

The other advantage you could say is that the 5425 will run off a 60w POE injector, whereas any 8xxx Hikvision seems to need 90w POE despite what their spec sheet says, so be aware of that. 90w POE is not cheap.

The 5425 is smaller and lighter, the 8xxx are big heavy lumps :)

However I sold my 5425 and kept the 8223, so this says how I rate the two. You might want to consider the 8225IX, which I also have which is the newer version of the 8223I. It is similar but can do 60fps.

I can potentially upload some examples for you of both, but would need some time to do this. I can also potentially verify/test something on a 8223I if you like.

Hope this helps.

Tim.
 

larryhagman

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Tim, thank you SO much. That was extremely helpful and generous of you.

I MAY end up with both at this rate, so I can test and compare then sell the one I don't want. I am buying used, knowing all the usual pitfalls of that but I am not concerned, any problems and I will get a refund no issue.

I now realise how big the 8223 is! I can't say I look forward to installing that 30 feet up at the top of my ladder, will wire it up to my body or something in case I drop it, and hopefully it won't act like a pendulum (80mph winds currently!) and throw me to my early grave :D

I could do with the extra IR capabilities of the 8223, I am trying to catch a wild cat too, which is (embarassingly) another reason why I want smart tracking so I can see where it's coming from and going to, in the hope I can get it before it gets my kids! Not to mention the weirdo who seems to frequent our land a few times each year for no reason I can fathom.

Without the smart tracking, bang for buck the 5425 sounds a damn good camera. But you know how it is when you see bigger and better! I really could use the smart tracking if poss too.

Important - I didn't know that about the power issues. I am in UK on PAL rather than NTSC, not sure if that makes any difference, but the seller said 60W PoE is needed. Being short of cash, I wonder if I could just power it with a dedicated power supply from wall wart, unless that's no cheaper than PoE. I will have to research this, but thanks again for a really helpful reply
 

larryhagman

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PS - in relation to the 8223 I don't suppose you have an Acusense NVR, but even without that, can you tell me if your camera can do the following:

1. Patrol various different areas on a schedule, regularly? (I always wonder if you can burn the motors out. I would like mine constantly ranging, not hanging around for too long in one spot)
2. Alert for movement ONLY in certain intrusion areas (boxes/lines), in different patrol areas?

What I don't know, as I have never used a PTZ before of any description, is whether you can only set an alert for a static area that the camera remains fixed on, or whether you can draw various lines/boxes in different places, maybe 500 yards apart, so WHEN the camera is panning to cover that area, it alerts, then the camera goes back to the other areas and alerts for motion in the instrusion zones in that other area.

I suspect it can't do it but maybe you can confirm?

Not sure if that makes any sense, to make it easier.....

Imagine that I have the camera on a pole in the middle of a field between two car parks, and I wanted to alert if motion was detected inside either of the car parks but not in between. Could you set up each car park as a zone for motion alerts, so when the camera is filming on car park 1, it alerts to motion, but after panning back to car park 2, it will also alert for motion there when it can see any.
IF this was possible, it could be very cool, as I can draw areas where our stalker often is seen (by a gatepost on the hill, stupidly thinking he is invisible :D) and I could also draw some areas where the wild cat is often seen, and hopefully catch one of them whenever the camera is covering that area. Then I could set up patrol patterns to switch between those areas.
 

timb999

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I am in the UK too and yeah I buy all my cameras from eBay, sometimes used, sometimes new, but always from a UK seller, so you get a UK/Euro model and not Chinese. You can get some good deals on a 8223I. Keep an eye out for 8236I as well, which is identical but with extra zoom which you could use, but more money of course.

Yeah I would not fancy installing a 8xxx 30ft up a ladder! They are heavy and unwieldy, but as long as you know what you are doing (install top hat first and then hook camera over it...watch a video on YouTube) then you should be ok!

I was also told that 60w was fine for a 8223I, and it is....during the day. As soon as the IR kicks in at night is where it falls over. Mine would just crash, and reset as soon as IR activates. Small chance this might be fixed with a firmware upgrade maybe (mine is on an older firmware at the mo) but an installer told me that this was a common thing with Darkfighters.

You can buy a 24v PSU instead of POE...that would be cheaper £30-40 maybe? I would buy a ‘proper’ one that is sold for Hiks if I were you, but up to you. Downside is that it is extra faff at 30ft up, but it’s only 2 cables to secure into the connector with a screwdriver. POE is much easier but yeah, 90w will be at least £100 I expect...I paid a bit more for one but it was ages ago.

I don’t know anything really about Hik NVRs (I use blue iris on pc) but kind of suspect that the smart tracking will all be setup on the camera itself, and the NVR just records it? All the ‘smart’ stuff happens in the camera as far as I knew.

You should certainly be able to do what you suggested and set up a patrol on either camera. However yeah the 8223I will be the only one that might track and send an alert. Smart tracking is notorious for being hit and miss though so don’t get your hopes up with that!

Good luck!
 

larryhagman

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Ah, I didn't see you were in UK, Somerset no less! I was born in Glastonbury :). I want a, 8223 on Glastonbury Tor :D
Great advice again, I will probably go for DC as its easy to feed it up the inside of the barn on which the camera will be mounted. I missed out on the 8223, so gonna get the other one for now and keep an eye out for a bargain 8223. please let me know if you hear of any!! thanks again Tim
 

larryhagman

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Well I am one unhappy bunny, I didn't get either of the damn things! I am now scouring for them again.

I noticed this one which seems a good price for brand new with warranty - Hikvision DS-2DE4220IW-DE 2MP HD 1080P 20X Zoom CCTV HD External IP PTZ Camera 3701010145459 | eBay. Looks like lower model number so I assume lower spec than both the others, but it could well be good enough for my needs. will see if i can find a used bargain, otherwise will go for something like this. Now to find a cat to kick. :D
 

sebastiantombs

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I had a quick look at the spec on the Hikvision site and it seems to be a regular, moderately low light capable camera. The thing that puts me off, and says "consumer grade", is that P2P seems to be a "big" feature for it. Again, my two cents for what it's worth.
 

larryhagman

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Thanks, but I am not sure what you mean by P2P being a "big" feature? I am not sure i will even use that. I want to make my cameras unavailble over the web via use of a separate LAN and VPN to tunnel in, so I am not sure if that meanbs I will need P2P or not! But still not sure what puts you off there, could you explain a bit more please?
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sebastiantombs

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What I was trying to point out is that P2P isn't normally highlighted on higher grade cameras, although it i still normally available. That leads me to believe it's more of a "consumer grade" level. I can easily be wrong since I don't use, and am not familiar with, the Hikvision line.
 

timb999

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Ok, so, erm, I have also owned one of these before too! :) I have basically been working my way up the PTZ range from the 4220 upwards!

So, I liked these cameras for the price...I did not see much benefit in spending more for the 5425.

You should be aware that the 4220 is actually old now, and has been replaced by the 4215 and 4225 - so getting a 4225 would give you a little extra zoom. Fairly sure that these have virtually the same 'smart' capabilities as the 5425 had.

The only other one I have also had, which I think I saw on eBay recently as well, is a 7225. This is better than a 4220, and the low light performance is pretty close to a 8223I. The reason I did not keep it is that it has quite a pronounced 'spotlight' effect when using IR - i.e. you get a bright overexposed patch in the middle of the screen (worse at certain zoom levels) compared to the surrounding image. This annoyed me as it was a bit rubbish for wildlife viewing...but for security purposes maybe this is not such a big deal. If you can live with that, then it would be a better quality choice. It is also listed as having auto tracking on the spec sheet, but again, I never tried it. When I sold it, the guy who bought it told me it did not actually have auto tracking, but I am not at all convinced that he was looking in the right place, so...hmmmm.....it 'may' have auto tracking on it as well. I called Hikvision UK and asked them directly and they said it did have it...so...I assume it does. If you went for that one then maybe ask the seller if they can verify it has auto tracking...
 
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