Service hardware requirements for 8-10 4K (8mp) cameras

You are clearly an NVR fan as I am a BI fan, so I doubt we will convince each other lol.

I had NVRs for many years. It was a frustrating experience.

You are mistaken on the power requirements of a computer being used solely for BI. Mine is lower than the NVR I run in tandem.

There is a big debate here on which is better. Personally I found the NVRs to be too clunky and not very user friendly and got to the point that I was reactive instead of proactive. I literally tested BI and knew within a few minutes it was better than any NVR I ever had.

Like literally I would go months on end not even looking at the NVR videos because the interface was too clunky and would take forever to pull up any motion from the night before. And ended up turning off the alerts because there were so many false triggers. I would only look at it if I could tell someone messed with something on my property or a neighbor asked me if my cameras caught anything.

With BI, in addition to being able to configure it such that I get notifications whenever someone gets too close to my house, I can literally in less than 30 seconds every morning do a quick review to see if there was any suspicious activity or people walking down the sidewalk at 2am. I could never do it that fast with an NVR.

I have had whatever the NVR operating system is running on go out. TWICE. Got to buy a whole new NVR - TWICE

I have had the ethernet port go out on an NVR. Got to buy a whole new NVR.

i had the HDMI port go out on an NVR. Got to buy a whole new NVR.

Most I ever got was 2.5 years. The only working part was the HDD that I simply moved from the old NVR to the new one. I got to the point of realizing that an NVR is simply a stripped down computer, so I went to BI and never looked back. I got tired of buying a whole new unit.

So in my BI Computer, at least if the SSD goes out, I can just replace it. If the ethernet card goes out, I can just replace it. If the HDMI port goes out, I can just replace it. etc.

Personally I gave up on NVRs because I have found them to be clunky and a struggle to review clips and if a component goes out like the internet port, then you are stuck buying a new NVR whereas a computer part goes out and you replace just that component. I went to BI on a dedicated machine and haven't looked back.

Keep in mind an NVR is simply a watered down computer....
 
  • Like
Reactions: msquared
A Blue Iris/PC can be a very reliable system and the computer (aka) isn't much bigger than an NVR.

Turn off Windows and BI auto updates and have the computer autostart on a shutdown and run BI as a service and you have a more powerful NVR that is still more secure than an NVR that rarely gets updates.

BI allows for anonymous update of performance data. People have had it running nonstop for over 1900 days, or 5+ years... And I suspect that the last time it rebooted was when they manually did it...I was an NVR user before I made the switch and I never had an NVR last 5 years LOL

1000001447.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: msquared
I setup the sub streams on my 7 cameras and my CPU usage went from 70% to 10%! all these years of the CPU basically redlining. lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jim I.
steve1225 said:
you are comparing used computers from second hand to a new NVR.
Plus using windows OS and windows app with all quirks and stability problems vs standalone networked device (based on Linux) designed to run 24/7.
Comparing very advanced cctv app with thousands options hidden at different dialog / menu systems and lots tinkering to proper setup vs easy to use and start solution created to work in Dahua ecosystem.
Computer which will eat 100-200 wats of power vs NVR which use 30-40 watt .
Click to expand...
I will put up any of my 100+ used computers over 20 of which run blue iris 24/7 to a new NVR any day of the week. Windows runs great if you set it up clean. NVR's have stability issues too. Most expensive enterprise VMS charging 100-200+ per camera run on windows. While blue iris has lots of options it is also super easy to setup. You cannot just plug and play an NVR you must setup your recordings as well. The OP is a blue iris user so there is no learning curve regardless. I always always encourage users to buy an NVR first. This way they can appreciate blue iris for how awesome it is. The dahua/hik/etc NVR is useless for alerts if you cannot easily change when certain cameras fire alerts to your phone, just one basic function they dont have.
Most importantly no modern PC uses 100-200W. My blue iris machines run at 25-50w. Pro tip - if you take a 5 year old i5-8500 pc and literally max it to 100 percent CPU usage you entire system will draw about 75w. Newer systems are even more efficient.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: Flintstone61 and Jim I.
As an eBay Associate IPCamTalk earns from qualifying purchases.
As an eBay Associate IPCamTalk earns from qualifying purchases.
As an eBay Associate IPCamTalk earns from qualifying purchases.
@wittaj I received and installed the Loryta cam today. Im finding that in BI, when i click on that camera to view it full screen, its incredibly grainy and choppy. Whereas, when I click any of my other cameras (Reolink, Amcrest, Hikvision), they are all clear.

Im assuming maybe there are some video settings I need to configure?

Also - where would I find a firmware upgrade for this camera? Not much was provided in terms of a manual or app.
 
It is your settings.

In terms of getting the most out of the camera, here is my "standard" post that many use as a start for dialing in day and night that helps get the clean captures.

You need to get off of default. You only think they look good because your camera hasn't been tested yet with a middle of the night perp. Even a great camera like the 5442 on default settings will result in motion blur ghosting at night and then all you can tell the police is what time it happened.

These are done within the camera GUI thru a web browser.

Start with:

H264
8192 bitrate
CBR
15FPS
15 iframes

Every field of view is different, but I have found you need contrast to usually be 6-8 higher than the brightness number at night.

We want the ability to freeze frame capture a clean image from the video at night, and that is only done with a shutter of 1/60 or faster. At night, default/auto may be on 1/12s shutter or worse to make the image bright.

In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-4ms exposure and 0-30 gain (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared or white light.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night static image results in Casper blur and ghost during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

In the daytime, if it is still too bright, then drop the 4ms down to 3ms then 2ms, etc. You have to play with it for your field of view.

Then at night, if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.

After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.
 
  • Like
Reactions: atom631
atom631 said:
@wittaj I received and installed the Loryta cam today. Im finding that in BI, when i click on that camera to view it full screen, its incredibly grainy and choppy. Whereas, when I click any of my other cameras (Reolink, Amcrest, Hikvision), they are all clear.

Im assuming maybe there are some video settings I need to configure?

Also - where would I find a firmware upgrade for this camera? Not much was provided in terms of a manual or app.
Click to expand...
What firmware did it come with?
You don't want/need to update firmware just because.
 
@wittaj I set it to the codec/frames settings you mentioned above.

For the picture, here is what i have:

*I do not see manual exposure setting. I have a slider called "Exposure Comp" and it looks like it goes to 50
* I also do not see a noise reduction setting anywhere*

Day Profile:
Under Picture:
Brightness 50
Contrast 57
saturation/sharpness/gamma all default (middle)

Under Exposure:
Mode Manual
Shutter Custom Range
Shutter 0 ~ 8.3
Gain 0 ~ 30
Exposure comp default (middle)
Smart IR: off
3d NR: On
Advanced 3d default (middle)
Advanced 2d default (middle)

Night Profile:
Under Picture:
Brightness 50
Contrast 57
saturation/sharpness/gamma all default (middle

Under Exposure:
Mode Manual
Shutter Custom Range
Shutter 0 ~ 8.3
Gain 0 ~ 50
Exposure comp default (middle)
Smart IR: off
3d NR: On
Advanced 3d default (middle)
Advanced 2d default (middle)
 
You have it right.

You are in manual and can set shutter and gain.

Noise reduction is the 2D and 3D NR - those you want to drop.
 
  • Like
Reactions: atom631
looney2ns said:
What firmware did it come with?
You don't want/need to update firmware just because.
Click to expand...

Here is my camera info. I figured i would give it the latest firmware while im in my 30 day return window. lol

Device Type: IPC-T5442TM-AS-3.6mm
System Version: V2.840.15OG00D.0.R, Build Date: 2022-08-18
WEB Version: V3.2.1.1261216
ONVIF Version: 21.12(V3.1.0.1235054)
Algorithm Version: 1.0.7
Security Baseline Version: V2.1
 
wittaj said:
You have it right.

You are in manual and can set shutter and gain.

Noise reduction is the 2D and 3D NR - those you want to drop.
Click to expand...

got it. set the 2d/3d NR day profile to 25 and the night profile to 45 as a baseline


what should I set the substream at?

also - do you have idea why in the Ring app only my amcrest cameras seem to be on a 30 sec refresh for the live view? the other cameras, including the new one do not automatically refresh like the amcrests . i cant find a setting anywhere in ring, so it makes me think its something unique to amcrest. also, maybe im mistaken but i thought amcrest was rebranded dahua. is not the case?
 
Set the substream to whatever you are comfortable at. Many use D1 and some go higher.

Yes this camera and Amcrest are both made by Dahua so they should behave the same. I can't think of what this camera would have set different than the amcrest to work in Ring.
 
  • Like
Reactions: atom631
wittaj said:
Set the substream to whatever you are comfortable at. Many use D1 and some go higher.

Yes this camera and Amcrest are both made by Dahua so they should behave the same. I can't think of what this camera would have set different than the amcrest to work in Ring.
Click to expand...

I updated both the amcrest cameras to the latest firmware. this one is running firmware for 08/18/22. is there a later firmware? maybe that could do the trick.


last question for this night (sorry) - so there are 2 profiles on the camera. day and night. under conditions -> profile management i selected day/night. but how am i sure that the camera is switching profiles properly between day and night?
 
One suggestion is to keep the day profile in color and set the night profile in B/W.

Depending on the camera under the day & night settings select mode to be B/W for the profile night mode and for day color for the mode. Then save.
 
atom631 said:
Here is my camera info. I figured i would give it the latest firmware while im in my 30 day return window. lol

Device Type: IPC-T5442TM-AS-3.6mm
System Version: V2.840.15OG00D.0.R, Build Date: 2022-08-18
WEB Version: V3.2.1.1261216
ONVIF Version: 21.12(V3.1.0.1235054)
Algorithm Version: 1.0.7
Security Baseline Version: V2.1
Click to expand...
That's the latest firmware.
 
  • Like
Reactions: atom631
is this overkill? with some july 4th coupons it comes out to about $315 out the door.

www.dellrefurbished.com

Dell Refurbished

Laptops Starting at $199 & Desktops $99. Buy Dell Refurbished Computers, Laptops, Desktops and more - Includes Dell Warranty.
www.dellrefurbished.com www.dellrefurbished.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom