setup for 2 rooms

[PasopachterU]

Hej,

As I explained yesterday in the "New Member" part of this forum, we live in a house in Sweden in a somewhat remote area.
It might be an easy target for burglars (no direct neighbours, lots of forest around,..), so I was thinking about upgrading the security in and around the house.
Some new locks, some extra lights,... and maybe some IP camera's?
The locks and lights are no problem. I can manage that.
But the camera's? Well, that's all kinda new to me and although I know a little bit about computers... my knowledge of networks, port forwarding,.. is pretty limited.
So I have done a lot of searching and reading over the past few days, but it seems that the more I read about it, the more confusing it gets :shame:
I think the setup that I am looking for is a pretty normal one... but just the sheer amount of camera's out there is a bit overwhelming for me.

Ok, so what am I looking for?

Number of camera's?:
Currently I am thinking about 2 rooms where I want to put a camera.
The first room is the "computer room". It isn't that big and has a lot of windows... so during day-time there is a fair amount of light.
The second room is our living area. That one is rather big, but doesn't have that much windows, so it can be rather dark in the room. Especially on a cloudy/grey day.
During the night, both areas are dark.

Wired or Wifi?:
The living area isn't really close to the computer room (where the router also is) and as we just rent this house, I don't want to do much drilling or something like that. So preferably I would go for cameras that use wifi.
We have wifi covering the entire house, so I guess that shouldn't be much of a problem.

Local storage or cloud?:
Next month we will be going on holiday for about 2 weeks.
My desktop computer will be switched off during this time and I don't have a NAS or something like that, that can store the feed during our absence.
I know that there are camera's that have room for SD cards, but as we won't be home for a longer period of time, my guess is that cloud storage is a better option.
It seems that there are some options for that... Some pretty cheap, some rather expensive. So what service do you suggest?

Remote access:
During our absence I would like to check in on the house from time to time. I have an Iphone and I will be taking my laptop with me, so it would be nice if I could access the camera feed via an app or a web browser.
Also, it would be nice that I get some sort of warning (email or so) when the camera's detect something.

Motion detection:
I guess most of the camera's out there, have this option, but...
We also have 2 cats that will be staying here during that time. Don't worry, we have someone who will be looking after them during that period
The person who is looking after the cats, normally shouldn't come into the 2 rooms I mentioned, but the cats might. So preferably I would like some kind of camera where you can adjust the sensitivity of the motion detection, so that I don't get a warning every time one of the cats wanders into one of these rooms.

Easy setup:
Like I said, I am not really an expert when it comes down to networks, port forwarding,..
It doesn't have to be plug&play (if it's possible, it would be nice of course) but I don't want to be spending 2 weeks setting up this thing either.

Budget?:
Well, nothing comes for free and I am certainly willing to spend some money on it. So it doesn't has to be the cheapest setup out there.
But I don't want to spend 1000's of euros/dollars on it either. So I would say... 4 or 500 euro/dollar max?

Other optional things I am thinking about?:
- It would be nice if the camera's weren't to big. It's ok that you can see them (if you know where you placed them), but I don't want them to be the eyecatchers in the room either.
- If this thing works, then maybe I would want to add some extra camera's to the system.. so that should be an option as well.


I already had a look at some camera's out there and like I said it is pretty hard to select one from the huge amount of options that are out there.
But these are some of the camera's that had gotten my interest, but I am not sure if they are what I am looking for.

Foscam C1
Seems like this camera is getting some nice reviews. Especially for it's rather low price.
But that low price probably also means that they had to make some compromises in the design/available options of this camera. So not to sure about this one.

Nest Cam
More expensive than the Foscam. It's pretty small it seems and it's getting some good reviews as well... but it's also not without flaws it seems.
Especially the fact that a lot of people mention that the camera can become pretty hot, is something that kinda worries me.

Zavio F3215
I don't know exactly how I found this one.
It's not the cheapest one out there and I can't really find much reviews about it, but it does seem to have a lot of options that I am looking for.
So anyone here who can tell me something about this one?

Any other suggestions?

Thnx in advance!

 

[fenderman]

Foscam and zavio are junk. Dont waste your money on them.
Nestcam comes with a perpetual stupid tax, in that you need to keep paying them yearly per camera. Will easily end up costing more than a proper hardwired system. However, if you just need a single camera inside, its not a bad option.
There are tons of threads here on hikvision and dahua cameras that will fit your needs.

 

[acp_xt]

Hej PasopachterU,

I was in Sweden a few weeks ago for work, beautiful country! I addressed many of the difficulties you mention in my latest blog post (see signature) including specific camera recommendations and also why you shouldnt go for the Nest/Dropcam/etc., but here's my opinion:

Camera location and number: Consider outdoor cameras also in addition to indoor cameras. They are a good deterrent against would-be thieves and intruders (keep an eye on the captures sub-forum and you will see most intruders change their mind if they spot a camera observing them). If God forbid they do get in, then the indoor cameras will be great for evidence.

Wired or Wifi: Dont bother with WiFi unless its just 1 camera. Even then it may work or it may give you issues with dropped frames. It all can get flaky if there is one single bottleneck. I am renting as well and have managed to find ways to install cameras with no drilling.

Local storage or cloud: I recommend a NAS especially if you have other uses for it (you can quickly find many uses for it trust me! ). I use a 229 Euro QNAP TS-231+ that comes with the very useful Surveillance Station app on it (2 free camera licenses included). I considered a PC but the NAS uses just 11W of power which a PC cant match. ANother good option is an NVR, match the brand to the cameras you buy. Eg. Hikvision NVR for Hikvision cameras is the best combination.

Remote access: Check out my setup at the end of my blog post. The Hikvisions send me email alerts and then I can securely log into either the cameras or the NAS from anywhere in the world using either my phone or laptop to live-view or review recorded footage.

Motion detection:You can adjust the sensitivity and the size of the object that should create an alert in most decent cameras such as Hikvisions.

Easy setup: Yes Hikvisions need a bit more effort than say a Nest cam but are truly worth it when you see how much control you have. There are plenty of guides though and of course you have a forum such as this.

Budget: Best bang for the buck is the Hikvisions in my opinion.

As Fenderman rightly said, dont bother with Zavios and even the Foscams. The Swann is a rebranded Hikvision - this is popular in the UK where I live.

Cheers

 

[PasopachterU]

Thnx for the info and warning about Zavio, Foscam, Dropcam,...

I had a quick look at the brands the both of you do recommend and the one that I seem to like best is the Hikvision DS-2CD2432F-I(W)
This one apparently is also mentioned in your blog, acp_xt (nice blog btw )
The prices for this camera, here in Sweden, seem to be somewhere around €200

The QNAP TS-231+ seems to cost around €200 as well.
But I guess I will have to buy some HDD's for the NAS... so that will be an extra cost.
How much data would it need to be able to store if you have 2 cameras and it has to keep records during our 2 week holiday?
And, when I look at the blog, you mention a TP-Link TL-SG1008P switch... should I include this also, or is this optional?

Adding an extra outdoor camera... well, we have been thinking about that.
The thing is.. we not just rent this house. It's a B&B as well and we run it at this moment (normally until the end of 2016.. afterwards we have the option of buying it.. or not).
So putting up an outdoor camera might discourage potential thieves and it might give us some extra secure feeling... but we also wonder if the guests would like it?
Sitting in the garden, enjoying a nice time in Swedish nature... with a camera looking over your shoulder? I dunno... I might be overthinking this to much, but since we don't know what we are
going to do after our renting contract stops in December 2016, I guess we are going to leave it at 2 camera's inside and the other stuff I was planning (locks etc.)

Anyway, back to the indoor cameras.
Let's say I go for 2 Hikvision DS-2CD2432F-I(W) at €200 per camera
Then there is the NAS.. also around €200 (HDD's not included)
Maybe the switch?
I guess that will set me back well over the €500 I had in mind, but I guess that's something I can live with (dunno if the wife will :beaten: )
And is there something else I have to keep in mind? Other than some extra cables I mean.

 

[acp_xt]

Thanks for the compliments! I have to say I knew next to nothing about all this a year ago.

This is my complete surveillance setup (which was bought expressly with the aim of not spending a lot of money):
-QNAP NAS TS-231+ with a single 3TB WD Red hard drive (I went for the cheapest NAS I could find that has enough power for a smooth experience).
-Hikvision 2032-I (Backyard at 2MP resolution, 6Mbps bitrate and 10fps).
-Hikvision 2132F-IS (Dome for front yard at 3MP resolution, 6Mbps bitrate and 10fps).
-32GB SD card for the camera above.
-The TP-Link TL-SG1008P gigabit POE switch that powers the cameras is required, it also connects them to my gigabit modem-router provided by my ISP.
-2 cheap IR illuminators for the backyard and 12V power adaptors off eBay UK that have lasted nearly a year now and are still going strong.
-Lots of outdoor ethernet cables, again cheaply off eBay UK!
-CyberPower BRICs BR650ELCD (Line-interactive UPS - 390W/650 VA) to protect and power the entire system (13% load for all the above kit + a couple of other devices). I got again the cheapest UPS I could find which is officially compatible with the QNAP. If the power fails or supply voltage is outside the tolerance, it informs the NAS which is programmed to shut down gracefully. I also have a schedule to turn it on automatically every morning, which ensures the NAS will turn itself on the next morning if the power fails and it shuts down. I think its paid for itself as I already had one occasion where the NAS informed me that it had shut down as instructed by the UPS.
- tinyCam Monitor PRO app on Android phone/tablets.

The NAS:
I was torn between the Synology 215j and the QNAP TS-231+. But I found the QNAP at half price on Amazon France, so bought that. Both brands are good and claim to be able to send push notifications to the mobile app although I havent tested it. In any case the Hikvisions themselves can send push notifications to the iVMS-4500 mobile app, this I have tested and it works as advertised.

Storage capacity needed:
Recording my two cameras 24/7, 1 TB is good for 8 days. Note alarm recording is switched off. You can activate alarm recording which will then place markers on the timeline so that you can jump to events. So I would need 2 TB for around 2 weeks worth of video. More if I want higher bitrate and frames per second. I have settled at 6Mbps and 10fps as I couldn't see any improvement with a higher bitrate and 10fps seems fine. What I have done is I have set the Surveillance Station app on the QNAP to use only 1 TB (out of the 3TB available). So it automatically overwrites older recordings to maintain the 1TB quota. You can also specify number of days instead.
Next on my list is another 3TB drive so that I can have redundant storage (RAID-1).

As I said earlier the alternative to a NAS is to get a Hikvision NVR which would be easier in some ways to set up I imagine, and may work work with IP cameras from other brands, but I have no experience with this. Others here may be able to advise. I needed a NAS anyway for backup, media storage and media sharing across the home.

If you want to save some money, the cheaper 2032-I bullet or the 2132F-IS dome are great cameras. Alternatively you can try ordering them from China via eBay (as I did for 1 camera) or AliExpress. In any case ensure the camera is on the compatibility list of the NAS/NVR.

You have a point with the guests, but in the UK people are so used to surveillance that they dont even notice security cameras anymore! I managed to install the cameras under the eaves where they are relatively hidden - the only issue is spiders in autumn spinning webs in front of the camera, they are attracted by the IR light!

 

[klasipca]

zavio are junk. Dont waste your money on them.

What makes you say that? I owned a few Zavio and they were quite good at the time. They had nice hardware and stable firmware. Also, they are Taiwanese company unlike everything else from China. The only negative I have to say about them is they are more expensive then Hikvision so I never recommend them.

 

[fenderman]

What makes you say that? I owned a few Zavio and they were quite good at the time. They had nice hardware and stable firmware. Also, they are Taiwanese company unlike everything else from China. The only negative I have to say about them is they are more expensive then Hikvision so I never recommend them.

Just a personal experience with their camera..it was only one, so maybe i should not be so harsh..but as you point out their pricing is out of line.

 

[klasipca]

Just a personal experience with their camera..it was only one, so maybe i should not be so harsh..but as you point out their pricing is out of line.

I see. So what was the issue with it? I actually owned Zavio cams along with Foscams at the time and I couldn't stand using Foscam while I was praising Zavio because it had really nice picture (daylight) and I their firmware was much more polished.