Starting out with a system. Is going with used a good or bad idea? Have a list of potential hardware.

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First-World-Problems

n3wb
Feb 1, 2023
4
2
USA
Hello, I’m looking to wire up my home with cameras while doing an addition. I love to hunt down deals but I’m not sure if it’s the best idea with Poe cameras. From my research they can be finicky to get connected and possibly brick with firmware updates.


I’m pretty tech savvy though and have did a fair amount of research. I’m also familiar with dslr cameras and sensors, so I somewhat know what to look for.

nighttime quality is mostly what I’m after. The first option I’m looking at is a Lts setup that was removed from a church

here’s a copy of the ad—————-

Upgraded the camera system at our church daycare and are selling the old one. This is an IP camera system with a total of 34 cameras and everything else (other than cables, which would have to be run) needed to run an entire security system. Can store around 2 months of video. Here's the full list, with Amazon links, just for reference:


27 LTS Dome Cameras- CMIP7342W-28M ($169 retail - $4,563 total)


5 LTS Turret Cameras- CMIP3342W-28M (2.8mm wide angle lens) ($160 retail, $800 total) (There are actually 6 of these, but one doesn’t work… Don’t remember which one, so I just dropped one from the list)


2 LTS Turret Cameras- CMIP3342W-M (4mm lens) ($167 retail, $334 total)


2 LTS POE Switches- POE-SW2402 ($457 retail each)


1 LTS 64 Channel NVR (w/8 TB storage - $160 value)- ($1,000 retail?)

(This link is to a 16 channel LTS NVR with NO storage, for $460)

(This link is to an off-brand 64 channel NVR, for $1,390, not clear whether storage is included)

1 LTS Outdoor Camera Mount ($30 retail)


1 Ubiquity POE injector/adapter ($13 retail)

Asking $1,000 for everything.

—————-

I’m trying to get him to price some of it split up. The nvr is the H.265+, 8 sata, 64 channel model. It’s a rebranded $1,500 Hikvision model. I mostly don’t want all the dome cameras. The cams included aren’t the best but I’m also looking at some bullet cams to add to this. They are LTS CMIP8C42W-28MDA HD IP 4MP 2.8mm Full 247 Color 131ft White Light Bullet cameras. They are rebranded Hikvision colorvu cameras that are f1 and.0005 lux at f1. He has 9 of those for $85 each.


The other set I’m looking at is a Hikvision set with 17 turret cameras that are all 1/3 sensor exir. That one is $800.

I just wouldn’t be able to buy that much and be fully covered if I bought new. The lts is a little more expensive but I’d have more expensive equipment.

or should I skip this idea altogether? What’s the best way to test the cameras if I can take a laptop with me to look at them? Any input is appreciated. And thanks if you read all this. I’m just trying to include as much info as I can.
 
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Not a fan of lts or buying used crap, they’re selling it for a reason, with no warranty. And unless you have a weird wiring scenario you wouldn’t need the poe switches or injector.
 
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looney2ns said:
Those cameras will do a poor job after dark.
Read through this Cliff Notes and
This: Camera Suggestions
Click to expand...

I was thinking a 4mp 1/1.8, F1 would be decent. Also has colorvu. I’m also going to wire in motion lights at most of the camera locations to supplement any needed light. Nine of those would cover pretty much everything I need the others would be secondary areas to create overlap. Possibly some dome cameras above the doors and in the garage.

those are in another ad that I didn’t link to, just a mention of them.
 
First-World-Problems said:
I was thinking a 4mp 1/1.8, F1 would be decent. Also has colorvu. I’m also going to wire in motion lights at most of the camera locations to supplement any needed light. Nine of those would cover pretty much everything I need the others would be secondary areas to create overlap. Possibly some dome cameras above the doors and in the garage.

those are in another ad that I didn’t link to, just a mention of them.
Click to expand...
The supplemental light wont be sufficient. These old 1/3 sensor cameras are worth 5 bux for indoor use with tons of lighting. Your retail pricing is WAY off. Those are listings on amazon for suckers looking to replace 6 year old cameras with the same model. Same with the NVR. You are getting jacked by a scammer unloading old junk.
 
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First-World-Problems said:
I was thinking a 4mp 1/1.8, F1 would be decent. Also has colorvu. I’m also going to wire in motion lights at most of the camera locations to supplement any needed light. Nine of those would cover pretty much everything I need the others would be secondary areas to create overlap. Possibly some dome cameras above the doors and in the garage.

those are in another ad that I didn’t link to, just a mention of them.
Click to expand...

The cameras you are looking at to buy used are all on a 1/3" sensor, which is great for 720P, but sucks for 4MP. You would be better off buying 720P cameras.

1675376043873.png


Yes, you said you were looking to supplement and purchase, the CMIP8C42W-28MDA is a decent camera on the proper MP/sensor ratio. But keep in mind that it cannot see infrared, so if you do not have enough light or do not want to use the built-in white LED, then the camera will perform horribly at night.


Motion lights and cameras are not a good mix - either leave them on all night or not at all. If you do not have enough ambient light or refuse to use the built-in white LED, then you need a camera with built-in infrared.

Here is usually what happens when a motion activated light comes on - it just about completely blinds the camera right at the moment of optimal opportunity to get the picture. There are 3 deer in this picture and two of them are lost in the blinded white while the camera's exposure adjusts to the rapid change in available light:


1670327677985.png
 
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You asked the proper question in your headline. The answer everyone is giving you is: it is a bad idea. Especially for the cams you are thinking about. The sensors are small and the MP count is too big for them. They are several years old and frankly there is a good possibility that the electronics have degraded with time. Some of my older cams no longer have as good an image as when they were brand new. That is the nature of IP cams. people do replace them as newer technology comes along.

We all need to spend as little as possible for things, we understand that. But as far as cams are concerned, spending any money for cams that will only disappoint when the need arises, is a full waste of money.

Maybe you really do not need as many cams as you think. So spending more per cam would work out. Another thing to consider is that one does not need to put up a complete system all at once. Most of us here will advise that you start small and concentrate on one area of importance, like the front door, first. Likely your plan will evolve as you gain experience with IP cams. My initial plan is nothing like my current setup. As my knowledge of IP cams evolved, so did my plan.

Do not wire up the outside of your property without first testing cam positions. Get a good varifocal cam and use a test rig (like in the WIKI) to test out different POV's. Walk those positions day and night. Can you get a good face shot? One that could be posted on social media and someone would say 'I know that guy'? A shot of someone that if shown to a policeman he would say 'Yeah, I have had contact with that guy before' or 'we arrested him last week for something similar'? I have had this happen to me. The guy was IDed and arrested. This is what you are trying to accomplish.

Test Rig.JPG
 
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Most of us who have been around for a while have a box of old cams like that. I'd be happy if someone came and gave me $5 to take the box away. I gave some to Goodwill not long ago.

The 4MP 1.8 cams sound better in general but don't know any specifics.
 
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wittaj said:
The cameras you are looking at to buy used are all on a 1/3" sensor, which is great for 720P, but sucks for 4MP. You would be better off buying 720P cameras.

View attachment 152869


Yes, you said you were looking to supplement and purchase, the CMIP8C42W-28MDA is a decent camera on the proper MP/sensor ratio. But keep in mind that it cannot see infrared, so if you do not have enough light or do not want to use the built-in white LED, then the camera will perform horribly at night.


Motion lights and cameras are not a good mix - either leave them on all night or not at all. If you do not have enough ambient light or refuse to use the built-in white LED, then you need a camera with built-in infrared.

Here is usually what happens when a motion activated light comes on - it just about completely blinds the camera right at the moment of optimal opportunity to get the picture. There are 3 deer in this picture and two of them are lost in the blinded white while the camera's exposure adjusts to the rapid change in available light:


1670327677985.png
Click to expand...

thanks for that info, I hadn’t found that about the exposure change from motion lights.
 
Thanks for all the info. I’ll scratch those. It looks like I’d probably have to go new. The 4mp 1.8 cameras were the only ones I’ve found for sale with decent specs. I’d be ok with leaving the leds turned on, but It would be good to have a IR option. That may be why he changed those out.

one of the reasons I was looking to not invest a whole lot, is in the area I’m at it’s pretty quiet and private. I’ve never had anything stolen “knock on wood”. Several years ago someone came through the neighborhood opening car doors but that’s about it.

but it’s much better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. Even worse though would be to need it and have it, but what I have isn’t good enough. That would suck.
 
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