Talk me out of a kit - Help piece together a better kit

[tinkertonky]

So this is where I am at. I stalked a bunch of good deals and found the laview kit combo with 2mp bullets, 4mp bullets and a 2tb NVR drive for $377.98. [Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more - Newegg.com] It is a great set but i cant find many reviews on the exact bullets and if I would want to reflash with hikvision firmware. I saw a few older threads with details on how to piece systems together and found the notorious US version Aliexpress cams [which have me hesitant due to language and how they word US or Asia cameras]. Anyone want to offer me some good suggestions at piecing together a better set for under 400$?

I am a VoIP/Data Center engineer and tinker in coding and following youtube/github forks to develop my smart home. ONIV mjpeg has to be a mandatory minimum for my smarthome/tiles dashboard build.

My goal - Front of the house is about 20 feet from the main road [shame I know, can just barely get my SUV in without the back of it getting clipped by passerby cars], would like a good solid IR, good view from under my porch of the cars and packages, PTZ would be a benefit.
-PoE
-4 Cameras to start
-Locations would be: Front porch [View of 2 cars and packages. Always recording +Motion notification]
Back Porch [View of back door to house/garage. Always recording +Motion notification]
Back Porch [View of back yard - Long distance. Notifications for motion is fine]
Inside Garage or Babies room [Have xiaomi fanghack in there now via rtsp because I dont feel comfortable saving my video feed in the cloud. Notifications for motion is fine.]


Would 2tb record a decent amount? Could I hold 20-30 days of recording time at this capacity?


-2mp/4mp? I have read different views and watched some different youtube comparison and have noticed 2mp is typically sharper in detail but doesnt zoom as well as 4mp.
-I am not hung up on bullets or domes. What is the typical preference and why?
-Viewable from iphone [will follow vpn rules and port forwarding whitepapers to accomplish this]
-Future steady, meaning that when I sell this home in 3-4 years that it is still a great system with good up to date features [thinking hikvision cameras for up to date firmwares?]
-Would like audio and would I want SD options? Local storage pulled if the NVR goes down or does the SD offer image display so that the NVR isnt hosed?


What else am I missing?
4 cameras 8 channels NVR please, Redundancy like mirroring would be great but reading some NVR manuals it looks like they only offer a hot drive with read only redundancy to a backup drive?

Edit: I did just purchase a used 2tb WD Purple drive for 35$ off my forums - If i do go with the laview I could just throw this in the redundancy capacity.+ added a few details under locations.

 

[VorlonFrog]

Kits are typically composed of older technology NVRs and cameras, in order to reach a lower and more attractive price point. Usually, they are OEM cameras and not branded at all, or custom silkscreened with the kit provider's name. As such, you're not taking advantage of the latest technology like ultra-low-light sensors, back-lighting, WDR noise reduction, line-crossing logic, etc.

 

[tinkertonky]

Kits are typically composed of older technology NVRs and cameras, in order to reach a lower and more attractive price point. Usually, they are OEM cameras and not branded at all, or custom silkscreened with the kit provider's name. As such, you're not taking advantage of the latest technology like ultra-low-light sensors, back-lighting, WDR noise reduction, line-crossing logic, etc.

So whats a great NVR to provide PoE to cameras like these?
DAHUA 2.7mm ~12mm motorized lens 2MP WDR IR Eyeball Network Camera IPC HDW5231R Z ,free DHL shipping-in Surveillance Cameras from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

I can pickup 2 of those cameras, will just need cabling and an NVR. Are there other cameras that can be useful for my application?

 

[aristobrat]

Unless you have a specific need, domes are usually the last choice for outside because dirt/fingerprints/rain drops/etc on the dome can cause the IR to reflect back into the lens, which can really wash out the image. They also seem to be the favorite style for spiders to make webs over.

For NVR, if you're doing other home automation, you might want to look at running Blue Iris on a dedicated PC. Blue Iris is $60 for unlimited cameras, and you can pick up a used Dell or HP for $400-$600. I like Blue Iris over a NVR because it's more capable in some areas.. For example, alerts... In addition to the usual email, push notification, etc that NVRs can do, BI can also do HTTP gets/puts which will let it talk to other systems around the house. IIRC, it also has its own json api, so other systems can interact with it (i.e. when you turn off your home alarm, it disables some notifications in BI, etc).

I love the cameras you're asking about. I started with one (as a proof of concept) and now have six around the outside of the house. They have the bigger Sony sensor in them, which collects more light per pixel. They're amazing in low-light. Because they're varifocal, you can zoom them in for just the right view based on your mounting locations, vs having to pick a non-varifocal camera that comes with a fixed 2.8/3.6/4.0 mm lens and having to settle with what field of view it gives you.

I run a separate POE switch on my network and have the cameras plug into that. I have one of the ports on the POE switch connect to a port on my main switch, so everything talks to everything.

 

[tinkertonky]

Unless you have a specific need, domes are usually the last choice for outside because dirt/fingerprints/rain drops/etc on the dome can cause the IR to reflect back into the lens, which can really wash out the image. They also seem to be the favorite style for spiders to make webs over.

For NVR, if you're doing other home automation, you might want to look at running Blue Iris on a dedicated PC. Blue Iris is $60 for unlimited cameras, and you can pick up a used Dell or HP for $400-$600. I like Blue Iris over a NVR because it's more capable in some areas.. For example, alerts... In addition to the usual email, push notification, etc that NVRs can do, BI can also do HTTP gets/puts which will let it talk to other systems around the house. IIRC, it also has its own json api, so other systems can interact with it (i.e. when you turn off your home alarm, it disables some notifications in BI, etc).

I love the cameras you're asking about. I started with one (as a proof of concept) and now have six around the outside of the house. They have the bigger Sony sensor in them, which collects more light per pixel. They're amazing in low-light. Because they're varifocal, you can zoom them in for just the right view based on your mounting locations, vs having to pick a non-varifocal camera that comes with a fixed 2.8/3.6/4.0 mm lens and having to settle with what field of view it gives you.

I run a separate POE switch on my network and have the cameras plug into that. I have one of the ports on the POE switch connect to a port on my main switch, so everything talks to everything.

Id love to run the BI option, I have a few PCs upstairs in my attic [XPS 420, Intel Core2 processorQ6600(2.4Ghz 1066FSB) w/QuadCore Tech and 8MB cache 375W Power Supply] I could bring out of retirement, My only problem is footprint and my wife allowing another server in the house... I should really just sell my gear and setup a virtual box with multiple VMs... Would just have to P2V my current instance. I have the hdd space for sure... Just debating. POE switch 6-8 ports 100-150$, NVR 100-150?, 2 of those domes (they will be covered under my porch roof, not an eaves install), cat6 [x$ may just buy the box], BI $45 {ebay}, memory upgrade+new case for smaller Form factor. I am well into 600+

Could the kit work and I sell the 2mp bullets to upgrade to the domes or some good bullets (recommendation)? Could the nvr handle it? Or am I really just not going about this right and should I just find a poe switch, purchase some starlight domes (are there bullets that work just as well?) and then build up the iris?

 

[aristobrat]

The kit could work if you're looking for something inexpensive and easy to put up.

Here is why I personally wouldn't use it at my house:

All of the cameras in the kit have 4mm fixed lens. The view is 79' for each of them. Of the seven cameras I have, none of them are set to the same. The one in my back yard is set to around 2.7mm, which give a wide view (at the expense of detail, as you step further back in the view -- great for an overview camera to see what's going on, but don't ask me to ID a guy thats 50 feet back that I've never seen before). The one that watches the side gate to my back yard is zoomed into 12mm. Very narrow view, but the detail of EVERYTHING in that view is great. The other cameras are at varying degrees between.

All of the cameras in the kit have the usual 1/3" sensor in them. Unless you have good lighting outside when it gets dark, they're likely to have a good amount of grain in the images at night, with the 4MP cameras having the most. Six of the seven cameras I have are from the Dahua Starlight line, which have the bigger Sony 1/2.8" sensor in them. The low-light/night images from them are leaps and bounds better than images from cameras with the 1/3" sensors. The one camera I have that isn't Starlight covers a porch that has a flood light that turns on when it senses motion. The images from that camera when nothing is happening at night are horrible, but I don't care --nothing's going on. But once the lights turn on, that camera does OK. So I'm living with that compromise for now.

Depending on the specifics, it may not be possible to put the OEM firmware on rebranded cameras. This kit may be OK, .. I'm not sure.

Check out the Dahua sub-forum here. Should be a pinned post at the top about the Starlight models. Those have become the go-to cameras as they all have the bigger Sony sensor in them. They come in a bunch of different sizes and styles. Hikivision is starting to make cameras with these sensors also, but I think they've only made the turret style so far.

 

[tinkertonky]

The kit could work if you're looking for something inexpensive and easy to put up.

Here is why I personally wouldn't use it at my house:

All of the cameras in the kit have 4mm fixed lens. The view is 79' for each of them. Of the seven cameras I have, none of them are set to the same. The one in my back yard is set to around 2.77mm, which give a wide view (at the expense of detail, as you step further back in the view -- great for an overview camera to see what's going on, but don't ask me to ID a guy thats 50 feet back that I've never seen before). The one that watches the side gate to my back yard is zoomed into 12mm. Very narrow view, but the detail of EVERYTHING in that view is great. The other cameras are at varying degrees between.

All of the cameras in the kit have the usual 1/3" sensor in them. Unless you have good lighting outside when it gets dark, they're likely to have a good amount of grain in the images at night, with the 4MP cameras having the most. Six of the seven cameras I have are from the Dahua Starlight line, which have the bigger Sony 1/2.8" sensor in them. The low-light/night images from them are leaps and bounds better than images from cameras with the 1/3" sensors. The one camera I have that isn't Starlight covers a porch that has a flood light that turns on when it senses motion. The images from that camera when nothing is happening at night are horrible, but I don't care --nothing's going on. But once the lights turn on, that camera does OK. So I'm living with that compromise for now.

Depending on the specifics, it may not be possible to put the OEM firmware on rebranded cameras. This kit may be OK, .. I'm not sure.

Check out the Dahua sub-forum here. Should be a pinned post at the top about the Starlight models. Those have become the go-to cameras as they all have the bigger Sony sensor in them. They come in a bunch of different sizes and styles. Hikivision is starting to make cameras with these sensors also, but I think they've only made the turret style so far.

That is a great comment! I never thought of viewable angle as something I would want to bother with. This changes the ball game almost entirely because of where I plan to place these... I have some downtime tomorrow, I wont open the box and will actually look at pricing out some second hand gear and I found a few xeon servers on craiglist (upgrade my mezzmo server and throw it on my dell t20 server). Checking out my options. This was an impulse buy and im getting thin when it comes to buying, tinkering and configuring. All because of the new baby, time is super tight.

BI concept and pricing it is.
If I dont opt for starlight due to where they will be mounted, whats another comparable bullet? opposed to Dome

+repping all the way up gents

 

[randytsuch]

Few comments.

Do it right once, the first time, and forget about it. There is a reason the dahua starlight is highly recommended. Bad stuff happens at night, and these cameras are great at night. If you can't afford 4 of them, add more later. Starlights come in bullets too, but bullets have spider web issues.

Buy one, and play with it. Mount it on a 2x4, put it where you want to mount it, and see how it looks, during the day and at night. Seeing video from the camera's perspective may change your mounting location. Once you find a location that works, then run the wires.

You want to run BI on a dedicated machine. With only four cams, you can get away with an I5, current or last generation. I actually run a xeon, but its comparable to the last gen I5. You also need to use WD purple drives. They are designed to record surveillance video on, and will last a long time. Other drives will fail much faster. I have a little SSD for the OS, and then a 4tb purple.

Randy