IP Cam Talk

Welcome to the new IPCT! If you are having an issue logging in, please clear your cookies / cache.

Tariffs and Dahua

TechBill

Getting comfortable
Joined
Nov 1, 2014
Messages
1,090
Reaction score
401
China have the advantage of offering more in their products when it cost less for China to assemble it because China pay their employees far far less than what America pay their employees. America can't complete in retail prices if they assemble using the same hardware since American have minimum wage and regulation fees to be able to have a manufacturing facilities on US soil.
 

fenderman

Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
31,147
Reaction score
10,117
I am up to date on the trade issues. I am talking specifically about surveillance cameras as the subject of this forum. Please let me know what non-Chinese camera I can buy that will be as good or better than Dahua's even if more expensive.

To be up to date on the video surveillance industry please see this: The spectacular rise of the Chinese video surveillance industry - IFSEC Global | Security and Fire News and Resources
Its seems like you are not. As I explained, the reason for attacking the china camera market is because of the trade disputes.
The link you provided is useless, its a fake resource that is bought and paid for.
There are many non china cams, see Axis, Bosch, Avigolon for starters. Bosch in partnership with others is developing a free open camera OS that will make it easy for anyone to assemble this stuff.
 

pov2

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
129
Reaction score
20
Location
Canada
Its seems like you are not. As I explained, the reason for attacking the china camera market is because of the trade disputes.
The link you provided is useless, its a fake resource that is bought and paid for.
There are many non china cams, see Axis, Bosch, Avigolon for starters. Bosch in partnership with others is developing a free open camera OS that will make it easy for anyone to assemble this stuff.
Our friend Google gave me that link. I wonder if you can find a better overview of the surveillance camera market.

The official reasons to ban Chinese cameras are listed above. So, they fell to the level of not stating the real reasons.

Axis is Swedish, Bosch is German, whosoever was Avigolon it was bought by Motorola, so it's effectively American. I've never heard of Avigolon, I think I heard about Axis but I may be confusing with the word "axis", I definitely know Bosch but not as a surveillance camera maker. In the limited time I couldn't find a place to buy their cameras without filling out a form and waiting 48 hours for a response. Maybe Dahua etc. stole from Avigolon but they definitely didn't make themselves available to regular consumers. I doubt banning the Chinese will make it better. We will probably lose the ability to buy surveillance cameras easily. Or maybe that's the intent.
 

pov2

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
129
Reaction score
20
Location
Canada
China have the advantage of offering more in their products when it cost less for China to assemble it because China pay their employees far far less than what America pay their employees. America can't complete in retail prices if they assemble using the same hardware since American have minimum wage and regulation fees to be able to have a manufacturing facilities on US soil.
Yes, that's obvious for most of the things. I remember the times of US made printers, jeans etc. But specifically in case of the surveillance camera market it's hard to find a US company that makes cameras similar or better than Chinese's. @fenderman listed only one company above that seems to be American.
 

fenderman

Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
31,147
Reaction score
10,117
Our friend Google gave me that link. I wonder if you can find a better overview of the surveillance camera market.

The official reasons to ban Chinese cameras are listed above. So, they fell to the level of not stating the real reasons.

Axis is Swedish, Bosch is German, whosoever was Avigolon it was bought by Motorola, so it's effectively American. I've never heard of Avigolon, I think I heard about Axis but I may be confusing with the word "axis", I definitely know Bosch but not as a surveillance camera maker. In the limited time I couldn't find a place to buy their cameras without filling out a form and waiting 48 hours for a response. Maybe Dahua etc. stole from Avigolon but they definitely didn't make themselves available to regular consumers. I doubt banning the Chinese will make it better. We will probably lose the ability to buy surveillance cameras easily. Or maybe that's the intent.
That is a nothing "overview" its a bunch of fluff. I dont need an overview. I have been watching this market for many years.

You think the government is going to tell you their backroom thinking? They have not fallen, on the contrary, they have risen miles above the suckers we had in office until now. They are not taking the lying cheating and stealing that china has been doing over the years.
With limited exceptions like BandH, you cannot buy dahua without being a dealer either.
Dahua did not steal from anyone. No one said that.
Bosch is in fact a surveillance camera maker. It appears that you have very limited knowledge in this space.
Banning the Chinese until they play fair will make it better for everyone, your ability to buy a 100 dollar camera notwithstanding. Pricing will return to normal once everything is ironed out. You will also likely have no issues ordering small quantities from china.
 

fenderman

Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
31,147
Reaction score
10,117
Yes, that's obvious for most of the things. I remember the times of US made printers, jeans etc. But specifically in case of the surveillance camera market it's hard to find a US company that makes cameras similar or better than Chinese's. @fenderman listed only one company above that seems to be American.
You asked for non-chinese. Who cares where its made as long as its not in china. Even the brands mentioned, build their products overseas.
Again, the chinese make nothing. They are glorified parts assemblers. There are factories in south korea and elsewhere that can do this. The sanctions need to come harder and faster.
 

pov2

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
129
Reaction score
20
Location
Canada
You asked for non-chinese. Who cares where its made as long as its not in china. Even the brands mentioned, build their products overseas.
Again, the chinese make nothing. They are glorified parts assemblers. There are factories in south korea and elsewhere that can do this. The sanctions need to come harder and faster.
I asked for non-Chinese in hopes I can buy them. But it doesn't seem probable in the nearest future. I spoke of US companies in terms of stealing US intellectual property.
 

fenderman

Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
31,147
Reaction score
10,117
I asked for non-Chinese in hopes I can buy them. But it doesn't seem probable in the nearest future. I spoke of US companies in terms of stealing US intellectual property.
You can buy them. Speak to a dealer.
Yes CHINA steals IP from US companies. That is but one of the issues causing the trade war.
 

pov2

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
129
Reaction score
20
Location
Canada
That is a nothing "overview" its a bunch of fluff. I dont need an overview. I have been watching this market for many years.

You think the government is going to tell you their backroom thinking? They have not fallen, on the contrary, they have risen miles above the suckers we had in office until now. They are not taking the lying cheating and stealing that china has been doing over the years.
With limited exceptions like BandH, you cannot buy dahua without being a dealer either.
Dahua did not steal from anyone. No one said that.
Bosch is in fact a surveillance camera maker. It appears that you have very limited knowledge in this space.
Banning the Chinese until they play fair will make it better for everyone, your ability to buy a 100 dollar camera notwithstanding. Pricing will return to normal once everything is ironed out. You will also likely have no issues ordering small quantities from china.
Yes, I am new to surveillance camera market. Got interested a couple of years ago when the market was the way it is now. I am listed as a "Young grasshopper" after all :) I don't know the history of this sector, hence my views. I guess you can expect similar views from other new people.

I think tariffs are better than the ban. If it's banned ordering small quantities from China will become illegal like in the case with controlled substances. I think tariffs can lead to "ironing out", too. Even better for the market. With tariffs people will be aware of such products but with a total ban new people wouldn't know that such cameras exist. But I am not making decisions.
 

pov2

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
129
Reaction score
20
Location
Canada
Yes CHINA steals IP from US companies. That is but one of the issues causing the trade war.
Yes, I know, in many areas. But it didn't seem to be the case with surveillance cameras as I could hardly find an American company that made surveillance cameras.
 

fenderman

Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
31,147
Reaction score
10,117
Yes, I am new to surveillance camera market. Got interested a couple of years ago when the market was the way it is now. I am listed as a "Young grasshopper" after all :) I don't know the history of this sector, hence my views. I guess you can expect similar views from other new people.

I think tariffs are better than the ban. If it's banned ordering small quantities from China will become illegal like in the case with controlled substances. I think tariffs can lead to "ironing out", too. Even better for the market. With tariffs people will be aware of such products but with a total ban new people wouldn't know that such cameras exist. But I am not making decisions.
They will not completely ban the product... even if they did it's a few months at best... Nothing is going to change in this market.... Ultimately the best solution is open firmware like bosch it's creating in partnership with others. You'll be able to build the camera yourself just like a computer.
 

fenderman

Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
31,147
Reaction score
10,117
Yes, I know, in many areas. But it didn't seem to be the case with surveillance cameras as I could hardly find an American company that made surveillance cameras.
The point wasn't that they're stealing anything related to surveillance, it's that they're crooks and they're going to be punished. problem was nobody had the balls to do it until Trump. He's finally cleaning up their mess.
 

pov2

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
129
Reaction score
20
Location
Canada
BandH will sell you bosch and axis.
Better than nothing but unfortunately only one model of Bosch in 6 variations, and Axis models listed there seem outdated by specs compared to Dahua's. Axis' website lists better cameras.
 

fenderman

Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
31,147
Reaction score
10,117
Better than nothing but unfortunately only one model of Bosch in 6 variations, and Axis models listed there seem outdated by specs compared to Dahua's. Axis' website lists better cameras.
as stated, check with their dealers including bandh. You can buy any model.
 

pov2

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
129
Reaction score
20
Location
Canada
as stated, check with their dealers including bandh. You can buy any model.
Yes, yes, I know. "Fill out the form and you will be contacted within 48 hours." My point is the Chinese are winning the market because they make it easy to buy.
 

fenderman

Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
31,147
Reaction score
10,117
Yes, yes, I know. "Fill out the form and you will be contacted within 48 hours." My point is the Chinese are winning the market because they make it easy to buy.
The Chinese market in fact does not make it easy to buy hikvision and dahua do not want to sell to people like you. That is why you purchase via Gray market or rebranded. these companies don't want to sell to end users like you because you're a pain in the ass and don't know what you're doing which cost more in the long term.
 

bigredfish

Known around here
Joined
Sep 5, 2016
Messages
2,553
Reaction score
2,755
Location
Florida USA
If an ordinary citizen cannot buy a Huawei or, say in the future, Dahua device for private use, how does it play with multiple freedoms guaranteed by constitution? Do those devices become controlled substances?
Snowden was a simple traitor.

Im still trying to find the part in the Constitution that says I have a "Right" to buy a Chinese camera and that by not allowing such it somehow infringes on my "freedoms"...?

There's a metric shit-ton of things made outside of the US that you can't buy here or in Canada, or many other countries for that matter. Take vehicles that dont pass California's fantasy land emission standards.
 

ThomasPI

Pulling my weight
Joined
May 9, 2017
Messages
302
Reaction score
197
Like anything else regardless where there’s a will there’s a way. Ban or not folks will figure out a way to get them into the US albeit on a small scale. Supply and demand but I’m thinking it’ll iron itself out over time.
 
Top