The Slow Boat From China: Scam Edition

[tangent]

Back in December I ordered something (not a camera) on eBay from a seller in China. I debated ordering from a seller who claimed to be in the US, but decided to roll the dice on a seller with a decent feedback number that was at least being honest about their location even if it meant slow shipping. I wasn't in a hurry and it was pretty cheap. The item I ordered was even supposed to include a slightly newer version of the software than what the "US" sellers were offering.

The item shipped fairly quickly and I was provided a tracking number. At this point the estimated delivery date increased from what was shown when I placed the order. I kept an eye on the tracking number and in a little over two weeks tracking now showed the package in the US.

China Post was the shipping method. Once it was handed off to the USPS, it showed up as "Registered Mail" which seemed a little unusual in the past packages from China have usually showed up as either First Class Mail or some parcel service. I decided to see if it showed up in Informed Delivery as an upcoming package but it did not. The package was moving very slowly through the USPS system and I discovered that registered mail is often a fairly slow service, so I waited. The package began in New York, went Portland, and then showed up in Chicago. As I watched the tracking info I grew more concerned and wondered if I'd been scammed or if the shutdown was somehow affecting registered mail, so I waited. Then it showed back up in Portland before being routed to Fresno, CA and finally Sacramento, CA where tracking updates stop. I the past I don't think I've ever had a package take more than a week or so to get to me once it was in the USA.

I waited a couple more weeks, I was busy and really wasn't in a big hurry for the item and figured I'd have to wait until after the estimated delivery date to get a resolution. There weren't any more changes in the tracking so I decided I check what I could find on eBay about the order. I was greeted by a message that the seller of the item was no longer active on eBay. At this point it was pretty clear the seller was a scammer. I filled out the form to contact the seller to say I didn't receive my item, and 5 minutes later got an email that a refund had been processed and the seller provided an invalid tracking number.

eBay and PayPal handled the situation well and apparently the USPS is not so incompetent they'll send a legitimate package back and forth between the east and west coast a few times before loosing it (I wasn't sure). I know many people who end up victim of these tracking number scams end up with a bigger hassle on their hands. I am left to wonder how someone addresses a package in a manner that gets the USPS to play slow motion coastal ping pong with it and if eBay is smart enough to prevent tracking numbers from being used more than once.

Tacking history if you're interested:
12/13/18 Origin Post is Preparing Shipment Acceptance CHINA
12/14/18 Processed Through Facility SHANGHAI
12/27/18 Arrived at USPS Regional Facility QUEENS NY DISTRIBUTION CENTER
12/27/18 Processed Through Facility ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)
12/28/18 Departed USPS Regional Facility QUEENS NY DISTRIBUTION CENTER
12/29/18 Arrived at USPS Facility PORTLAND
12/30/18 Departed USPS Facility PORTLAND
12/30/18 Arrived at USPS Facility PORTLAND
12/30/18 Departed USPS Facility PORTLAND
12/30/18 Arrived at Unit PORTLAND
12/30/18 Arrived at USPS Facility PORTLAND
12/30/18 Departed USPS Regional Facility PORTLAND DISTRIBUTION CENTER ANNEX
01/01/19 Arrived at USPS Regional Facility CHICAGO IL INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER
01/08/19 Departed USPS Regional Facility CHICAGO IL INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER
01/10/19 Arrived at USPS Facility PORTLAND
01/11/19 Arrived at USPS Facility PORTLAND
01/11/19 Arrived at USPS Regional Facility PORTLAND DISTRIBUTION CENTER
01/12/19 Arrived at USPS Facility PORTLAND
01/12/19 Departed USPS Regional Facility PORTLAND DISTRIBUTION CENTER
01/12/19 Arrived at USPS Regional Facility PORTLAND DISTRIBUTION CENTER
01/12/19 Departed USPS Facility PORTLAND
01/13/19 Arrived at USPS Facility PORTLAND
01/13/19 Arrived at USPS Regional Facility PORTLAND DISTRIBUTION CENTER
01/14/19 Arrived at USPS Facility PORTLAND
01/14/19 Arrived at USPS Regional Facility PORTLAND DISTRIBUTION CENTER
01/16/19 Departed USPS Regional Facility FRESNO CA DISTRIBUTION CENTER
01/16/19 Arrived at USPS Regional Facility FRESNO CA DISTRIBUTION CENTER
01/18/19 Arrived at USPS Regional Facility SACRAMENTO CA DISTRIBUTION CENTER
01/22/19 In Transit to Next Facility

Related reading:
How eBay Sellers Can Use USPS Tracking to Commit Fraud
Top eBay Scams to Avoid
r/eBay also has lots of discussion of eBay scams.

 

[looney2ns]

On top of it all, USPS is simply inept.
I had a similar deal back in December....but the shipper was Amazon, prime two day shipping.
It shipped from Lexington KY, next it went to Dayton Oh. WTH? Stayed there for two days.
Next it arrived in Louisville KY, stays there for two days.
Then it goes to Memphis, TN. WTF?
Then on to Nashville, TN, there it stopped for 3 days and no more tracking updates.
I wasn't in a hurry for mine either, now I was curious.
I waited another day or two (now been 12 days) then contacted Amazon. They shipped a replacement, received it the next day as I normally would. Shipped from Lexington again.

You guessed it, the first package that took the grand tour was delivered to me 2 days after the replacement arrived. Never received another tracking update after it arrived in Nashville.
There was NOTHING at all wrong with the shipping label.

 

[Whoaru99]

Not following how the USPS delivery/tracking could be manipulated like that for a scam?

I read the link about using USPS tracking to commit fraud, but that sounds like a different situation than package ping-pong.

 

[bp2008]

Last year, my brother ordered a signed book. It was shipped via USPS from a town literally 37 miles away and it took a detour through a few other states where it apparently got lost for several weeks. It did eventually arrive, but USPS had it for a month or two.

 

[tangent]

Last year, my brother ordered a signed book. It was shipped via USPS from a town literally 37 miles away and it took a detour through a few other states where it apparently got lost for several weeks. It did eventually arrive, but USPS had it for a month or two.

Whenever I've had that happen the package usually arrives very beat up.

Not following how the USPS delivery/tracking could be manipulated like that for a scam?

I read the link about using USPS tracking to commit fraud, but that sounds like a different situation than package ping-pong.

The tracking itself isn't being manipulated. Scammers do things like ship an empty box to a random address in your zip code.

In my case, I'm curious but don't know what they did. My suspicion would be a combination of choosing a variant of china post that's extra slow and deliberately messing up some aspect of the address to confuse the postal service.

I'm in Colorado and thought it was funny the package went back and forth between the east and west coast several times. I doubt the package with the tracking number I was given was even addressed to someone in my state. I think the ultimate goal was to run out the clock and make ebay/paypal take the financial hit.

 

[Whoaru99]

Whenever I've had that happen the package usually arrives very beat up.

The tracking itself isn't being manipulated. Scammers do things like ship an empty box to a random address in your zip code.

Yeah, I understood that angle. Empty box shows as delivered but the intended recipient never got it and whoever did received nothing but air from wherever. Hence, scammed.

But that doesn't seem to be the case here. There is no delivery claimed it's lost in tracking black hole.

 

[TonyR]

I don't understand how such a well-run mail and package delivery service could be in the red by 63 billion dollars!

True story and may not have anything to do with the USPS ills but I have to tell this:
In the berthing compartment of the aircraft carrier I was on, a great guy from NJ was above me. I'd like to have a dollar for every time over the next couple of years he'd lean out and say "...hey, Tony....how do you spell 'freeze' or 'late' or REALLY simple words like 'dog' or 'print'...I'm serious. We've exchanged Christmas cards since '72 and about '75 I asked him what he was up to and he said "...oh, I work for the post office".

Now I realize that the PO's problems are many and most are complicated but what about the basics? Why not hire people that can spell? Or am I way off here...does that not affect their ability to read? I guess not. My wife can't spell and she was a successful registered nurse for 26 years. I got weary of her interrupting my TV watching by her asking me every 10 minutes how to spell stuff so I bought her an amazon Echo Dot for Christmas. Now Alexa gets awakened every 10 minutes with requests like "...Alexa...how do you spell 'divorce' ?

 

[tangent]

Yeah, I understood that part. It shows as delivered but the recipient never got it. Hence, you're scammed. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. There is no delivery claimed, it's like sucked into a black hole.

Pretty much. The tracking info no longer shows this, but at one point the tracking info did show up like it was out for delivery in Portland. My best guess is that the package was eventually damaged and they discovered it was an empty box. Given the lack of tracking and various eBay policies, I felt like I needed to make a claim regardless. Regardless, I posted this to draw attention to potential scams someone might encounter.

I imagine the seller did something similar to other people and that's why eBay gave me a refund as quickly as they did. It's never a good sign to see a seller you bought something from on eBay show as "no longer active on eBay".

They probably reused the same tracking number on multiple auction/ecommerce sites to scam multiple people.

In the unlikely event the package shows up in a couple more months, I'll post about it.

 

[tangent]

I got weary of her interrupting my TV watching by her asking me every 10 minutes how to spell stuff so I bought her an amazon Echo Dot for Christmas. Now Alexa gets awakened every 10 minutes with requests like "...Alexa...how do you spell 'divorce' ?

Alexa is a lot worse at random trivia than Google Home.

 

[tangent]

FedEx used to lose and redirect packages in bizarre ways all the time in rural areas. I think they're doing better but I still often avoid FedEx for rural shipments.

 

[mat200]

I don't understand how such a well-run mail and package delivery service could be in the red by 63 billion dollars!
..

FYI - a part of the in the Red is that the USPS is eating the cost of package deliveries from "developing countries" like... CHINA.

Yes, that is right - the "free shipping method" is subsidized by China Post ( the Chinese Government - helps build their GDP and take $ from the US and EU ) - and then they hand it to the USPS and basically the USPS then delivers the package without getting paid what it cost us to deliver the packages due to postal treaties designed to help developing nations build a good postal system.

This btw was posted in a thread here regarding the Trump administration wanted to exit out of that treaty unilaterally. iirc there was a very enlightening link in that thread on this.

 

[looney2ns]

Last year, my brother ordered a signed book. It was shipped via USPS from a town literally 37 miles away and it took a detour through a few other states where it apparently got lost for several weeks. It did eventually arrive, but USPS had it for a month or two.

Someone decided it was a good read.

 

[looney2ns]

My Son-in-law is in charge of the shipping and receiving department at his job. They ship numerous orders daily.
He absolutely refuse's to send anything via USPS. He's had way too many late, damaged and never to be seen again shipments.
Same from his vendors, "you are not allowed to ship anything I purchase from you via USPS to us".
They try to avoid Fed Ex as well. UPS is always his first choice.

 

[looney2ns]

We've had two Echo 2nd gens for about a year now, as time has went on, it gets harder every day to not throw them both out in the street. POS.

 

[tangent]

I don't understand how such a well-run mail and package delivery service could be in the red by 63 billion dollars!

It's also a lot more expensive to deliver to rural areas than urban areas.

 

[DesertRat]

Another USPS story:
I ordered 1 RJ45 Jack from an e-bay seller in Florida. It was the only place I could find a RED jack. I received the USPS tracking number and started tracking the package. The local Florida PO accepted the package and there it sat. After about 2 weeks I contacted the seller and let him know the package was stuck at his local PO. He immediately FedEx'd another one to me (at no charge) and I received it in 3 days. I had my jack, so I thanked the seller for his excellent CS and promptly forgot about it...until 6 weeks later when I received the original shipment.

Anybody want to buy a RED RJ45 Jack?

 

[tangent]

About a week after I ordered the offending package, I ordered a 10 pack of something else from china. Total cost including shipping $1.22. Cost for 1 equivalent item shipped in the US: $7. This order arrived in less than 2 weeks.

 

[Whoaru99]

Hmmm, and I've alway had pretty good luck with USPS. Could be that small town thing.

One package said delivered but never got it. Phoned PO, the Postmaster said they'd look into it. A few hours later he phoned me back saying they'd found the package accidentally delivered to the wrong address and that it had now been delivered to my house.

Granted, you might say it was a mistake in the first place. Yeah, but to me how mistakes are handled means something too. At almost 500 million mail pieces per day the slightest not quite perfect is a lot of errors on that volume. Frankly, that any of the shipping companies do as well as they do is, to me, pretty amazing logistics.

Of course when your package ends up in the tiny error percentage the big picture is not the paramount thing on ones mind.

 

[tangent]

Regarding USPS debt, you may want to give this a read: https://www.uspsoig.gov/blog/be-careful-what-you-assume

 

[griffths]

...

This btw was posted in a thread here regarding the Trump administration wanted to exit out of that treaty unilaterally. iirc there was a very enlightening link in that thread on this.

Just happened to be reading this thread today.