this might be a stupid question.. but.....

[flynreelow]

I have a client looking into new IP cameras for his property. I think I am already going to set him up with some
IPC-HDW5231R-Z (Vari-focal Turret)
and
IPC-HFW5231E-Z (Varifical Bullet)

I have now come across the DAHUA SDZW2030S-N that has the 30x optical zoom.

My question is the optical zoom really only for live viewing (like casino, etc)

Is there an "after the fact" benefit of going with a camera that has this 30x zoom built in.

Like if he is watching the days footage, and sees something in the distance, will he be able to zoom in cleanly? Is that the true benefit of these?

This client says money is no object, but because of HOA regulations, he cant have huge bulky cameras, so I am looking at these bullets and turrets.

So for you guys, if money is no object, which cameras would be good to protect his house? These will be mounted 15-18 feet from the ground, on different sides of his house. Any other Dahua cameras I should be looking for?

Should "Box" cameras even be considered?

Thanks for the recommendations, I have already learned so much on this site....

 

[fenderman]

There is no benefit to optical zoom after the image has been captured at a distance..honestly if you have to ask the question you should not be installing any cameras for someone else.
If money is no object have him look at avigilon cameras and vms.

 

[flynreelow]

There is no benefit to optical zoom after the image has been captured at a distance..honestly if you have to ask the question you should not be installing any cameras for someone else.
If money is no object have him look at avigilon cameras and vms.

Wow,

I guess that was a stupid question. Ive been in the Home Theater A/V space since 99, and now looking to expand our portfolio. This client of mine is also a great friend, and told him I would help him with his purchase and install. When I said money was no object, maybe that wasn't the correct thing to say. Hes not looking for a foscam set up, but he doesn't want to go super high end with Avigilon. Thanks for the optical zoom clarification.

 

[nayr]

30x Zoom on a fixed camera is for watching a fixed object VERY far away; if you want to get license plates as someone drives through a gate several hundred yards away? That'll do it, but it rivals a PTZ w/same optics in price.. Very few valid use cases for a high zoom fixed camera, mebe watching a marina or small choke point (gate) from a far off perspective.

As you get more zoom the focal point narrows, you will no longer be able to see things up close and very far out in focus.. infinite focus you see with fixed cameras is because they are relatively short lenses that are capable of being focused in such a way.

Weather will have a very dramatic effect when zoomed in that far, a very light rain other cameras might not even register could totally obsecure the image several hundred yards away.

 

[flynreelow]

30x Zoom on a fixed camera is for watching a fixed object VERY far away; if you want to get license plates as someone drives through a gate several hundred yards away? That'll do it, but it rivals a PTZ w/same optics in price.. Very few valid use cases for a high zoom fixed camera, mebe watching a marina or small choke point (gate) from a far off perspective.

As you get more zoom the focal point narrows, you will no longer be able to see things up close and very far out in focus.. infinite focus you see with fixed cameras is because they are relatively short lenses that are capable of being focused in such a way.

Weather will have a very dramatic effect when zoomed in that far, a very light rain other cameras might not even register could totally obsecure the image several hundred yards away.

Thanks Nayr,

No need for 30x zoom in this application. Client used a local alarm company to set him up with cameras. I think he got ripped off.. but thats really why I am here, doing research for him. Client was sold IC Realtime cams, which I know are rebranded Dahua. I briefly looked at the install, and viewed the cameras, and wasn't very impressed. The main camera for the front of the house was a 4mp( I think), but I wasnt even able to make out the licence plate of the car in front of his house, in the daytime, parked. I thought that was strange. The camera is up about 19 feet, and from the camera to the street was maybe 40'

Im now researching Dahua (I have used hikvision before) and I love your write ups on the the new starlights. I have ordered a turret for myself, that will be here next week. Just trying to get a grip on a good dahua camera that will work for him. I feel bad, think he was charged like 800 for this new "4mp" camera that cant even make out a plate in the daytime, parked....

Do you think he will be ok with the varifocal bullet? Or should i look at some of the higher MP cameras, that I know dont work as well in low light?
Thanks

 

[nayr]

most of it comes down to the install honestly; the best camera in the world can do horribly if installed in a shit location and the worst camera int he world can do pretty damn good if installed perfectly.

using wide angle cameras outside is a common mistake, you cant ID anyone with wide angle unless they get very up close and personal (within couple feet).. so dont use them but inside once you already have an ID and simply need to track moments.. Vast majority of outdoor cameras need to be 6-12mm to get identification at a reasonable range (35-40ft tops) but none of the kits and few installers slap up anything more than wide angle.. Blind spots are perfectly acceptable as long as you always get a really good ID and have targets of value covered.. I'd rather have multiple angles of high value target and still have blind spots.

The Varifocal Bullet is only needed if you wish to make use of external audio or alarm.. otherwise the Turret is aesthetically better looking.

PTZ's are widely overused; they shine most when someone is physically manning the camera.. ie Security Guard or your a Paranoid Insomniac.. otherwise they can only look at one thing at a time and your better off covering all areas with more fixed cameras given the expense; and then you really need both for best results.

 

[Fastb]

flynreallow,

he is watching the days footage, and sees something in the distance, will he be able to zoom in cleanly?

In playback, you can zoom in and blow up a portion of the picture. Magnifying 30x won't give anything recognizable, however.

If seeing details is your customer's desire, I suggest you spend time selecting the correct lens, while paying attention to the PPF (pixels per foot)
Camera Calculator / Design Software

Enter the address, google maps is used.
Locate the camera, then pick a lens.
Then place the object to view.

With common variety lenses (2.8, 3.6) you won't have good PPF at medium distances.

Pick the right lens, don't rely on zooming after the fact.....

Fastb

 

[flynreelow]

most of it comes down to the install honestly; the best camera in the world can do horribly if installed in a shit location and the worst camera int he world can do pretty damn good if installed perfectly.

using wide angle cameras outside is a common mistake, you cant ID anyone with wide angle unless they get very up close and personal (within couple feet).. so dont use them but inside once you already have an ID and simply need to track moments.. Vast majority of outdoor cameras need to be 6-12mm to get identification at a reasonable range (35-40ft tops) but none of the kits and few installers slap up anything more than wide angle.. Blind spots are perfectly acceptable as long as you always get a really good ID and have targets of value covered.

The Varifocal Bullet is only needed if you wish to make use of external audio or alarm.. otherwise the Turret is aesthetically better looking.

PTZ's are widely overused; they shine most when someone is physically manning the camera.. ie Security Guard or your a Paranoid Insomniac.. otherwise they can only look at one thing at a time and your better off covering all areas with more fixed cameras given the expense; and then you really need both for best results.

excellent info Nayr... I owe you some beers next time I'm at the Great American Beer Festival in Denver.

He will not be in need of the extra alarm or audio, so are you telling me that the Turret, and the Bullet will provide the same zoom, and same image quality. For some reason I thought the bullet would be better, or maybe zoom better because of that shape. But I guess thats what I get for assuming. I do agree that the Turret is way better looking.

 

[nayr]

Yep

another piece of advice, never buy cameras with through hole IR Diodes.. always buy cameras with Surface mount Diodes, they are far more powerful and directional.. far superior night images and less issues from bugs with this alone:

Zoom on the Varifocal Bullet and Turret are identical (12mm)

 

[flynreelow]

flynreallow,



In playback, you can zoom in and blow up a portion of the picture. Magnifying 30x won't give anything recognizable, however.

If seeing details is your customer's desire, I suggest you spend time selecting the correct lens, while paying attention to the PPF (pixels per foot)
Camera Calculator / Design Software

Enter the address, google maps is used.
Locate the camera, then pick a lens.
Then place the object to view.

With common variety lenses (2.8, 3.6) you won't have good PPF at medium distances.

Pick the right lens, don't rely on zooming after the fact.....

Fastb

Thanks Fastb for this..... ill see what I can find out.....

 

[looney2ns]

For IDing purposes, any camera mounted more than 8ft off the ground isn't good. A high mounted cam may show you what happened, but not who did it.