What does Axis have that more affordable options don't?

[Jayordon]

I'm a professional installer and I've installed Lorex cameras with one company and Axis and Pelco cameras with another company. From what I've seen, I think the video quality on Lorex and Hikvision looks better than most Axis and Pelco cameras which makes me question why Axis and Pelco are so expensive. I don't mean to just bash on Axis, but I'm genuinely curious why Axis is considered to provide high end cameras when I would argue that they're worse. When the company I'm with installs Axis cameras, we typically use 1080p at 15fps. When I install Lorex cameras, they're 4k at 15fps. Am I missing something with Axis?

 

[biggen]

I like the Axis build quality. Customer service is also pretty good in that you can talk with them directly via their web portal. If I buy Dahua, I'm not getting any support with Dahua outside of the vendor that sold it to me.

But government agencies also must used approved equipment. I think Dahua is outright banned by use of U.S. government agencies. So that probably leads to an increase in costs since the manufacturer has to provide certain documents to the government that proves where the parts are manufactured, etc... So you disrupt the free market by restricting who can sell to you. They can name their own price practically.

 

[Jayordon]

I like the Axis build quality. Customer service is also pretty good in that you can talk with them directly via their web portal. If I buy Dahua, I'm not getting any support with Dahua outside of the vendor that sold it to me.

But government agencies also must used approved equipment. I think Dahua is outright banned by use of U.S. government agencies. So that probably leads to an increase in costs since the manufacturer has to provide certain documents to the government that proves where the parts are manufactured, etc... So you disrupt the free market by restricting who can sell to you. They can name their own price practically.

Thank you for the quick reply. The company I work for that uses Axis does do a lot with government buildings so that makes sense. But is there anything that Axis, Bosch, or Pelco do better at when it comes to video quality? I know Axis has a lot of unique cameras. Like some with fish eye viewing angles and cameras with multiple lenses. But you could get multiple non-name brand cameras for the same price which result in better video results.

I was reading about focal length and it sounds like Axis has better focal length, but in the real world applications I've seen, even at far distances, video quality is similar to that of smaller less known brands.

 

[samplenhold]

I do not think you can do the comparison as you have done. Comparing a 2MP cam's picture with an 8MP cam without doing a true IP cam comparison is not realistic. If all you do is compare a static picture between the two, then the 4K picture is going to look nice, especially in the daytime. The real comparison is how well does each do in identifying a face at night. Those 4K cams will not do well in low light with movement of the subject.

 

[samplenhold]

Additionally, do you dial in the settings for the best possible picture quality? Do you vary those settings, like exposure, based on night and daytime? Do you walk test each cam's view? Can you ID a face from each cam's view? That is what the main objective is.

 

[Jayordon]

I do not think you can do the comparison as you have done. Comparing a 2MP cam's picture with an 8MP cam without doing a true IP cam comparison is not realistic. If all you do is compare a static picture between the two, then the 4K picture is going to look nice, especially in the daytime. The real comparison is how well does each do in identifying a face at night. Those 4K cams will not do well in low light with movement of the subject.

The newest line of Lorex cameras is actually 8mp and 4k. And I had seen an article doing a test to see how one of the Hikvision cameras actually looked compared to an Axis and Bosch camera. Hikvision came out on top in most tests including low light tests. Admittedly, I don't know if all of the settings were fine tuned on any of the cameras, but either way, I don't understand the price difference when the name brand cameras yield seemingly worse results.

 

[biggen]

I was reading about focal length and it sounds like Axis has better focal length, but in the real world applications I've seen, even at far distances, video quality is similar to that of smaller less known brands.

I had this camera for about a month:

https://www.axis.com/products/axis-q1786-le

I bought it used on eBay for a great price. It's a wonderful camera with a huge zoom BUT it lacks H.265. How in the hell can you manufacture a 4MP cam in 2021 and not include H.265? So unless you want stream sizes in excess of 20Mbps data rates when running @4MP resolution, you have to use CBR/VBR and Zipstream to squeeze the stream down to usable levels which makes the image suffer. I was really disappointed in how it performed. When I compared it to my Dahua 5442-Z4E bullet I had at the time that is also 4MP but has H.265, I had to run the Axis camera and nearly double the data rate I ran the Z4E at to get the same picture quality since the Q1786-LE only has access to H.264.

I will say that Axis has nailed the web interface. It works out of the box with any browser whereas Dahua is still screwing around trying to get browser compatibility without a plugin. Firmware updates are also much better with Axis with multiple brances to chose from depening on if you want LTS or active/development. Dahua also has real problems producing bug free firmware. How long has the 5442 been out and still has broken Smart IR?? But as far as features go, a $250 Dahua camera will run circles around a $1300 Axis camera. I think the only thing that particular Axis camera had that my Z4E didn't was MQTT integration.

I ended up putting the Axis camera back on eBay and recouping what I bought it for. Was nice to play around with it but, in the end, the Z4E was better. Hell, I ended up selling the Z4E and downgrading to a Z12. So what does that tell you? The expensive Axis $1300 new couldn't even produce as good as an older 2MP Dahua Z12.

 

[bigredfish]

Pure image quality? Little or nothing.

As mentioned Axis does a better job with firmware generally speaking. But I’ve installed 100-150 Dahua cameras and while a couple were a challenge with regards to firmware, they are all doing their job. I probably saved at least $10,000 if you just factor in a $100 price difference.

 

[Mark_M]

Axis M31 on left, Dahua on the right.

I find that Axis is worth the money for its software and administration. Far nicer interface and it just works.
The Axis ecosystem makes it far easier to maintain many devices.

I also find that this Axis cam has better contrast. Color looks washed out but it does a better job at getting face definitions.
Photo is example of WDR as well. Both have it turned on. I blame this Dahua (IPC-HDBW4433R-S) for being a REALLY CHEAP camera for it's poor performance. I have also tried with a SD1A404XB-GNR 4MP mini PTZ and got similar image to this fixed Dahua camera.
Both here are 4MP (although cropped).

---

If you're looking for your home, just go Dahua or Hikvision. They're cheaper and work.
Although I now recommend to Axis given its build quality and support.


I would like to get away from Dahua at some point. All to get away from these horrid human rights abusing devices.

 

[bigredfish]

Something's not right there. I have plenty of Dahua cameras using WDR and they look Nothing like that.

Human rights abusing devices..... is that kind like evil black rifles?

 

[bigredfish]

And isnt the HDBW4433R-S a cheap Chinese region camera?

 

[bigredfish]

What Axis model is that and how much did it cost?

 

[Mark_M]

Axis M31 on left, Dahua on the right.
...
Photo is example of WDR as well. Both have it turned on. I blame this Dahua (IPC-HDBW4433R-S) for being a REALLY CHEAP camera for it's poor performance. I have also tried with a SD1A404XB-GNR 4MP mini PTZ and got similar image to this fixed Dahua camera.
Both here are 4MP (although cropped).

And isnt the HDBW4433R-S a cheap Chinese region camera?

What Axis model is that and how much did it cost?

 

[Mark_M]

Human rights abusing devices..... is that kind like evil black rifles?

I'll blame myself for watching news about china and IPVM.

Sorry that I have some morals.
Although at this point I got Dahua because of it's price tag and I've put morals aside because of money.
At the moment this statement backfires!

 

[bigredfish]

IPVM did an extensive test of WDR just a year and a half ago. While the top camera as an Axis P3225-LVE Mk II - a $500-$700 model, some Dahua models finished quite well above many other big brand names. Reading the test and seeing the test images, one does wonder how the Axis was ranked higher... recommend all to read it.
Unfortunately IPVM typically only tests US models (mostly domes) and doesnt typically test the cameras most of us use.

 

[prairietech]

I'm a professional installer and I've installed Lorex cameras with one company and Axis and Pelco cameras with another company. From what I've seen, I think the video quality on Lorex and Hikvision looks better than most Axis and Pelco cameras which makes me question why Axis and Pelco are so expensive. I don't mean to just bash on Axis, but I'm genuinely curious why Axis is considered to provide high end cameras when I would argue that they're worse. When the company I'm with installs Axis cameras, we typically use 1080p at 15fps. When I install Lorex cameras, they're 4k at 15fps. Am I missing something with Axis?

The 5 year warranty is pretty neat. Wonder how many of the china made cameras offer that?

 

[Mark_M]

some Dahua models finished quite well above many other big brand names.

This is absolutely what I say about Hikvision and Dahua.
It is GREAT for the price and you can get a great quality image for it's price tag.

 

[bigredfish]

Agree. And you pay for that. But lets not kid oursleves that Axis is bulletproof. I see the posts from Axis installers on IPVM and eklsewhere, they have their share of product issues.

And certainly if I were a pro installer (Im just a hobbyist/enthuisiast) and had hundreds of thousands of $ wrapped up I'd want the longest warranty I could get. But at some point the cost/benefit factor kicks in and 2-3 years is just as good if I saved $500 per up front.

 

[Mark_M]

Agree. And you pay for that.

But lets not kid oursleves that Axis is bulletproof. I see the posts from Axis installers on IPVM and eklsewhere, they have their share of product issues.

This is an interesting concept I contemplate about Axis and other brands.
Dahua and Hikvision have 'fly leads' on most of their cameras. Whereas Axis (and I presume Avigilon, Pelco) have a junction box built into the camera.

I like having a junction box built into the camera. It means the cable on the mounting surface hole only needs to be as big as the ethernet cable.
But I like a fly lead because the camera (assuming not a dome) has a factory water tight seal.

If a camera with junction box gets water logged then that's the camera gone too.
But if a fly lead corrodes there is some hope to put a new connector on.


I was paranoid if I screwed the Axis camera into the junction box tight enough to compress the rubber seal.

 

[Valiant]

I like being able to read the manual in English, use the user interface and understand what it means.

The Chinese camera web interfaces and menu selections often leave me confused!