What does " Verifocal" imply?

[harleyfart]

I am looking at purchasing the following camera, and using POE switch to connect to QNAP NAS:
[h=1]HIKVISION 3.0Mp HD Outdoor Waterproof Vandalproof 2.8~12mm Verifocal Dome IR Network IP Camera Alarm/Audio DS-2CD2732F-IS [/h]I do not understand the verifocal part, other than iris of camera can be manipulated. My question is how that is accomplished? Can it be done via camera, monitoring software, or is it a climb back into the lowest section [height-wise], bruise up your knees from being 2x4s, in order to physically reset focal length....all those fun things you went through to get the cam set up in the first place.

 

[nayr]

Verifocal === Optical Zoom

its got an lens on it and and can change its focal point from anywhere between 2.8mm and 12mm as needed.. if it does not say Motorized Varifocal you have to do it by hand.. this camera has to be manually adjusted but it lets you dial the zoom in to your level without replacing the camera entirely.

If you get one with a motorized verifocal it'll act like a PTZ Camera with only the Zoom through software, allowing you to change the Zoom level in realtime... usually by the time you approach the cost points of a motorized verifocal your within reach of getting a nice PTZ with full motion.

 

[fenderman]

To clarify, that camera does not have a motorized zoom. Varifocal is to be considered manual unless specifically noted in the description and model number. (With hikvsion for example, the same camera can be motorized or manual, depending on one letter of the model.

 

[harleyfart]

Re: What does " Verifocal" imply?

I vote for motorized AND PTZ! Thank you!

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you, sir! Greatly appreciated! <----both responses

 

[nbstl68]

Looking at samples like some Hikvision models, it appears fixed vs (manual) varifocals do not seem to have a huge price difference, (I just saw a 3MP Hik bullet 4mm for $129 vs a Hik 3MP 2.8-12mm bullet for $147 for example on Amazon).

So why would one bother with a fixed at all then I wonder? I can't imagine there are too many instances where 4mm or 2.8 mm etc. happen to be exactly what you need...why not just always go with a varifocal for the flexibility of dialing in each location just right?
...or are there other cons associated with them possibly?

 

[nayr]

well, obviously you have to manually focus them.. so if you got a load of cameras to install thats a job in its own.. $20 a camera can also add up if your planning on a dozen cameras.

considering how many ppl get fixed lens cameras that are out of focus and send them back to the seller.. you do have a point tho.

 

[Git]

Looking at samples like some Hikvision models, it appears fixed vs (manual) varifocals do not seem to have a huge price difference, (I just saw a 3MP Hik bullet 4mm for $129 vs a Hik 3MP 2.8-12mm bullet for $147 for example on Amazon).

So why would one bother with a fixed at all then I wonder? I can't imagine there are too many instances where 4mm or 2.8 mm etc. happen to be exactly what you need...why not just always go with a varifocal for the flexibility of dialing in each location just right?
...or are there other cons associated with them possibly?

That is one of the reasons why I ended up buying the Huisun 10x with PZT

Made it real easy to dial in and focus. After it was setup - I hardly ever move it

 

[klasipca]

Looking at samples like some Hikvision models, it appears fixed vs (manual) varifocals do not seem to have a huge price difference, (I just saw a 3MP Hik bullet 4mm for $129 vs a Hik 3MP 2.8-12mm bullet for $147 for example on Amazon).

So why would one bother with a fixed at all then I wonder? I can't imagine there are too many instances where 4mm or 2.8 mm etc. happen to be exactly what you need...why not just always go with a varifocal for the flexibility of dialing in each location just right?
...or are there other cons associated with them possibly?

and I am thinking why would anyone bother with manual varifocal these days... when you can a)have 10x ptz for same price b)motorized varifocal for even less

When i was considering Hikvision varifocals I saw that lens wasn't as sharp as their fixed cams

Like this example

 

[nayr]

Varifocals have came down massively in cost in the last few years.. when I started setting my system up 2 years ago they were not this good of a deal.. you were looking at least 50% more in cost to get a Variable Lens over a Fixed one.

So I think right now the vendors are kinda ahead of the market, but we could see a shift where fixed lenses start becoming less common as cheap varifocal's become prolific.

@klasipca, you only have one example of PTZ for that cost that is not junk in comparison to a fixed in that price range.. and its not all that great of an example and has its own basket of problems.

 

[klasipca]

Varifocals have came down massively in cost in the last few years.. when I started setting my system up 2 years ago they were not this good of a deal.. you were looking at least 50% more in cost to get a Variable Lens over a Fixed one.

So I think right now the vendors are kinda ahead of the market, but we could see a shift where fixed lenses start becoming less common as cheap varifocal's become prolific.

@klasipca, you only have one example of PTZ for that cost that is not junk in comparison to a fixed in that price range.. and its not all that great of an example and has its own basket of problems.

How many examples do you need? It maybe one example for ptz and it's enough. They've build an amazingly good product and priced it in the same range as fixed cameras and with v2 improved it a step further. Others soon realize their success formula and follow the suit. I think we can agree that it's proven that it can be used for fun as well as for serious security.

 

[nayr]

personally, I need just one.. that does not require Windows, and has a documented API that can do stuff like pull snapshots from a URL.

 

[klasipca]

The way I see it is they are at the startup stage with this product and have long ways to go to get to the same level as established brands such as Dahua/Hikvision. Since I am very much involved in the startup myself I know how difficult and time consuming it is to document and implement all features that clients want with limited resources.

 

[nayr]

from what ive seen it appears they have intentionally crippled it, I would not expect to ever see an API document from them.

Everyone who's attempted to reverse engineer it has got stuck at the fact that ActiveX plugin uses a secure token to prevent anything but the plugin from sending the commands.. the design speaks volumes of there intentions.. you only do such things when you try to prevent anyone from integrating with it.. it'll require more than docs to work, unless an API interface is hidden nobody has found.

I am a software developer, I know how much time and effort is involved.. and what they have cobbled together is not very impressive and looks like amateur hour; the hardware seems decent but they dont actually make much of the hardware, just bring components together.. and they really dropped the ball on software.. I have to work with Chinese software developers integrating with my products, they crank it out like machines without a single bit of artistic creativity.. end results work sure, but its clunky, ugly, and full of bugs.

 

[klasipca]

from what ive seen it appears they have intentionally crippled it, I would not expect to ever see an API document from them.

Everyone who's attempted to reverse engineer it has got stuck at the fact that ActiveX plugin uses a secure token to prevent anything but the plugin from sending the commands.. the design speaks volumes of there intentions.

I am a software developer, I know how much time and effort is involved.. and what they have cobbled together is not very impressive and looks like amateur hour; the hardware seems decent but they dont actually make much of the hardware, just bring components together.. and they really dropped the ball on software.. I have to work with Chinese software developers integrating with my products, they crank it out like machines without a single bit of artistic creativity.. end results work sure, but its clunky, ugly, and full of bugs.

Not everyone expects product will fit everyone's need, personally I don't need a kitchen sinks in the ip cam. What they are offering is enough for my personal needs, but I can understand that it's not enough for someone else. Btw Hikvision (and Dahua) crippling their cams different way, by using noisy cheap sensors or locking down firmware while charging premium for better quality cams, so I am not impressed with that either.

 

[nayr]

huh? all my 2MP Dahuas all have the same 1/2.8" Sony Exmor CMOS Sensor that your Hunisun does.. it also dont lock down firmware or really charge a premium.. its called better components.. Take my big black face dahua apart and you'll find some very high quality stepper motors and high quality german made belts and gears.. I paid more for that quality, but premium? really?

Hikvision, well yeah.. I dont touch them for region locking plain and simple..

Up until very recently any PTZ under $200 was a total pice of junk and could get there but kicked by nearly any quality fixed camera in the same price range.. I admit the Hunisun is a deal, and works way better than all its predecessors in that price range.. but its still really friggin cheap and hard to compare with full featured PTZ's.. its the only one for under $200 with that kinda optics thats even worth buying thats for sure.

Not long ago it used to cost you a few thousand dollars to get a PTZ with the same level of features and quality as my Dahua, so how did I pay a premium @ $650? not really.. From what you've shown everyone here I still believe my black face dahua is within 5x better.. so 5x the cost is still justified.

PTZ are gimmicks for most people, so Hunisun hit it out of the park by making a decent one ppl could afford to be gimmicy with.. $650 just to play arround with a PTZ is not worth it... but if you got some serious use for a PTZ then a Hunisun simply wont cut it...

The arrival of the Hunisun dont mean ppl should just not bother with any fixed cams and just put those hunisuns up everywhere, they have not even had a chance to prove long term reliability yet.. and in the end its still pretty much a Gimmic to sell cams

 

[klasipca]

huh? all my 2MP Dahuas all have the same 1/2.8" Sony Exmor CMOS Sensor that your Hunisun does.. it also dont lock down firmware or really charge a premium.. its called better components.. Take my big black face dahua apart and you'll find some very high quality stepper motors and high quality german made belts and gears.. I paid more for that quality, but premium? really?

Hikvision, well yeah.. I dont touch them for region locking plain and simple..

Up until very recently any PTZ under $200 was a total pice of junk and could get there but kicked by nearly any quality fixed camera.. I admit the Hunisun is a deal, and works way better than all its predecessors in that price range.. but its still really friggin cheap and hard to compare with full featured PTZ's.

Not long ago it used to cost you a few thousand dollars to get a PTZ with the same level of features and quality as my Dahua, so how did I pay a premium @ $650? not really.. From what you've shown everyone here I still believe my black face dahua is within 5x better.. so 5x the cost is still justified.

Frankly, I don't even know if Dahua offers extensive range of cams with low light sensors. I was referring the new crop of 4MP sensors that are still 1/3 format when Hikvision using 6MP 1/1.8" in their $600+ cams. What they are missing is middle ground, low light something $200-$300 range would be a good start, but really I would be much happier with sub 200 cams.

http://overseas.hikvision.com/en/products_508.html

 

[nayr]

your putting blame in the wrong places.. those cheap low light sensors are just a few months old and nobody but Lorex has had a chance to them.. I suspect largely because of lenses..

Search for '1/1.8 lens' on aliexpress: 399 results
Search for '1/3 lens' on aliexpress: 23,675 results

Dahua/Hikvision have alot more invested in the standard 1/3rd sensor format than say Lorex does.. it will take them more time to get the lenses in the quality, quantity, and price that will end up in those offerings.. the 1/3rd sensors been a standard lens size for many decades.. its not all about sensors, optics just as important.

 

[klasipca]

We'll see, perhaps next iteration in a few years Hikvison will get on bang wagon with cheap low light sensors

 

[nayr]

the same thing happened a few years back, at a smaller scale, when the 2MP 1/2.8 Sony Exmors hit the market.. it was not a standard size lens and it took a bit for the optics manufacturers to react.. the smaller and more agile companies not pushing out as many products were able to adopt it quicker and get theres on the market long before the big OEM's caught up.

for the longest time 1/3rd was considered 'good enough' simply because of the lack of HD, once cams started breaking 3MP and above their low light performance just went to shit.. Lately they have been doubling the receptors every generation and they are just receiving the same amount of light, therefore bigger sensors was always the inevitable reaction to the problem, and took far too long to reach IMHO.. I am glad it has finally arrived, I expect everyone's low light performance to jump dramatically in this next generation cameras..