What IR illuminator would be best?

[Kawboy12R]

Gotta love the demonstration pictures they use to showcase how well their IR illuminator works to enhance the shot. Anybody notice anything wrong with the picture in this link? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331703693597?clk_rvr_id=1004861318090&rmvSB=true

 

[pozzello]

uh, color? clearly not night-mode black & white...

 

[Kawboy12R]

Yep. They're definitely not demonstrating their product or even a similar one.

 

[Dragon]

When Aliexpress had a 10% off sale a few weeks ago I bought a bullet and this weird looking dome claiming to cast 120 degrees of light. I don't like the harsh flashlight edges of the bullet but can see how it would be good for lighting over a long distance (like the big courtyard on the product page) or lighting a narrow space. The listing claims its beam can be spread to 80 degrees but there is no way it's that wide. It's about 40-50 degrees on both the bullets I purchased.

On the other hand, I really like the dome. It's got really even light that actually casts to 180 degrees. I can set it in the middle of our living room and as the only light source everything is evenly lit. Outside, the light reaches 25' (dimly visible at that distance to hikvision DS-2CD2632F) but the wide even cast is the most impressive thing. Both the bullet and the dome use exactly the same power: 9.6W on my Kill-a-watt. I'll post pictures when I have time.

The dome uses a square array of tiny LEDs that combine to be enormously bright and are supposed to be 35% efficient vs 10% efficiency of old IR LEDs. I got my wife an LED array grow light for her starter garden plants that is also enormously bright compared to a grow light with individual LEDs and those lights have been running 12 hours a day for a few weeks, so it's promising technology.

Note that there are two versions of the dome, LSZ-100MA and LSZ-60MA. The 100MA is supposed to put out 3800mW of light with only one LED array while the 60MA is supposed to put out 2400mW of light with two LED arrays. I don't understand how this is possible unless the LED arrays being used are fundamentally different but I'm worried they're massively overdriving the one-array version so it won't last as long. I've seen other sellers put the two-LED dome picture up with the LSZ-100MA product listing so I'm not the only one confused. The box of my one-LED dome was clearly labeled as LSZ-100MA although it was a removable sticker.

 

[nayr]

cross posting here these shots of my 13.5W 850nm Focusing IR Spotlight that @pozzello found, this is full focus ~60ft away from target.. its for ALPR use, but this camera can see just the edge of its impact.

Note I have a IR filter that reduces output by roughly 10% infront of it too.. I am using it with great success reading plates @ 150-180ft.

Camera: Dahua 4MP LXIR Box

 

[Dragon]

Note I have a IR filter that reduces output by roughly 10% infront of it too.. I am using it with great success reading plates @ 150-180ft.

Is the filter for spreading the light and getting rid of the harsh edges? Do you have a link to it? The bullets I bought could be useful if the beam could be widened.

 

[nayr]

no its just to hide the spotlight because I buried it into a birdhouse.. but this is it: http://www.edmundoptics.com/optics/optical-filters/longpass-edge-filters/optical-cast-infrared-ir-longpass-filters/43949/

 

[pozzello]

@Dragon, the bullet Nayr and I have (and the one you linked to previously) have adjustable angle of dispersion.
you adjust it by pulling out and turning that little knurled knob (from ~5 degrees to ~60 or so).

did you not get the adjustable model?

It does have very sharp edges at the most narrow setting that Nayr uses (for plates @ 150+ft).
Even at it's widest (60 degrees or so,) it still has fairly sharp edges due to the optics used.

If that bothers you, just make the camera's field of view smaller than the area you are lighting...

added: using some sort of diffuser to make the lighted edges less sharp would be defeating the purpose
of the nicely colimated optics in use here, imo. If you want that sort of IR, use a different solution,
like a panel IR of the appropriate width...

 

[Dragon]

@Dragon, the bullet Nayr and I have (and the one you linked to previously) have adjustable angle of dispersion.
you adjust it by pulling out and turning that little knurled knob (from ~5 degrees to ~60 or so).

did you not get the adjustable model?

I did get the adjustable model but both bullets I purchased only spread to 40-50 degrees at maximum adjustment. I'll double check that and post pictures when I get a chance. There may be quality control problems in how far you can adjust individual units. The listing claims 80 degrees which is yet another aliexpress lie since nobody seems to get over 60 degrees on actual units. I'd have a use for it if it actually got 80 degree spread.
EDIT: After re-examination using an angle measurement tool, I think it does reach nearly 80 degrees. I'm not sure why I was so convinced it was much less than 80 originally.

 

[nayr]

cant say I actually tested its spread, I wanted it for the fact that its more narrow than anything else avilable.. not for width, most only go to 15 degrees, this does 5.. and im pretty sure its close to that.

 

[doodles]

cross posting here these shots of my 13.5W 850nm Focusing IR Spotlight that @pozzello found, this is full focus ~60ft away from target.. its for ALPR use, but this camera can see just the edge of its impact.

Note I have a IR filter that reduces output by roughly 10% infront of it too.. I am using it with great success reading plates @ 150-180ft.

Camera: Dahua 4MP LXIR Box

Sorry for the foolish question, but why select that model over models like this or this that seem to perform similarly for a lesser price point? Is it the adjustable focus dials? I'm struggling to see what makes it worth the higher price point.

Thanks in advance for any insight

 

[pozzello]

the beam is much more narrow and focused. the optics allow a 5-6 degree beam at narrowest, which you won't find on the other designs.
even the 15 degree panels have a significant amount of light outside the 15 degree 1/2 power spread. depends on your
application as to what will work best for you, but for license plates at 60ft+, the narrow-beam bullets work well.

that second one you linked to is also a 940nm unit. no red glow, but most of our cams are only ~1/2 as sensitive to that
frequency, so you need twice the power or more for the same effect...

 

[doodles]

Thanks for the reply. I'm surprised you say you can see lettering on plates at 60ft+ at night. What camera do you have? My Hik DS-2CD2032-I with WDR turned on can see plates at 30ft max (approx) during the day, at night slightly less. And if the car is in motion, forget it.

What's the value of having a very narrow beam? I mean if you have this directed toward the front of your home, one part of your driveway/street might be very well illumnated, leaving the rest of your frame poorly lit. Maybe you have a very special usecase, but a wider illuminator that emits more even light seems generally more useful.

Do you have any other tips on things to look out for as far as preferable features/specs for a front yard/front gate illumnator? I've read the ones with smaller leds burn out quicker, any truth to this?

This one seems like it offers good feature set for the price.

Thanks again

 

[nayr]

@doodles, I am reading license plates ~160-180ft with shutter speed @ 1/500.. I am using a 60mm lens on my camera and have a FOV less than 10 degrees.

 

[pozzello]

I grab plates with a Huisun/imporx V2 10x mini-PTZ (focused @50mm) and with a modified hikvision 2032 bullet (replaced 12mm with 25mm lens).
both cams are dedicated to collecting license plate info as cars pass up/down the street. Turns out the mini-ptz has enuf IR onboard for
that purpose (@60ft or so). The hik bullet can use some help, which is why I got the narrow-beam IR to light up that 10ft wide
section of the street from @60ft. The key to getting moving plates at night is a short exposure (I use 1/1000).

This is a different setup/application than what you are considering for general lighting of the yard for an overview cam...

 

[nayr]

you realize reading plates at night that camera wont see anything else right? at night the camera has to be dedicated to reading plates, its not useful for pedestrian traffic at all unless they wear reflectors.

might be better to get another 2032, put a 25mm in it and dedicate it to plates only in perhaps a more appropriate location looking down the road.. those IR's wont do anything for plate reading, you need power to read plates.. those are for low light, low shutter situations.. and even then they wont do much to help lower noise at any distance.

 

[pozzello]

i got a 25mm lens for my 12mm hik bullet here:
http://wrightwoodsurveillance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_91&products_id=388y

you will most likely need to modify the internals of the cam tho to fit it, depending on you camera series.
see thread at https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/740-25mm-Lens-for-ds-2cd2032-i-Mini-Bullet

I used a dremel to shorten the screw mounts at the yellow lines in the photo at:
https://www.ipcamtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6276&d=1447310983

only do this if you can spare the camera. if you're going to buy another cam to do this,
might as well just get a huisun/imporx 10x mini-ptz and be done with it:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Sell-2016-New-Arrival-Rotary-Bullet-PTZ-Camera-with-Onvif-1080P-MINI-PTZ-IP-Camera/32583148851.html?

 

[doodles]

@nayr
Thanks for clarifying, I did not realize that. I think I might pair it with Imporx for the best of both worlds.
@pozzello

Thanks the recommendation! I think I might just jump on imporx bandwagon. Aside from the sweet 10x, apparently it uses EXIR type IR which spiders are not attracted to (or so I've read). That was one of my main motivators in getting external lights. Assuming it could keep spidey away and has enough light to spot plates at 30-50ft, I'd be in heaven.

Even better, they sell one with audio abilities for just a few bucks more. Have you attempted to configure these with two way audio (mic and speaker)? I've read people have success with these electret condenser mics (no external power needed). Speaker would most probably need external power so I'm not sure about the best setup yet, but I'm hopeful it'll turn out well assuming the poe doesn't bork out (apparently it's a common problem).

 

[nayr]

this is what I get day vs night, pictures speak more than words sometimes.. notice in the daytime the tire tread, thats what high shutter speeds get.. no motion blur; requires a metric buttload of light at night.

all these cars are ~160ft away from the camera and light.

 

[oldrolla]

Thanks for the mountain of info Nayr....i see a lot of pics from behind but do you have any shots when the vehicle is facing the camera with headlights on!
Contemplating throwing a few cams out the front of my place and being a test pilot
Thankyou for the massive amount of data to crunch mate!!