What is the deal with dahua NVR motion and skipped frames?

[rufunky]

So I ordered a Dahua NVR4108-8P-4KS2 and was reading that there is a problem with motion detection cutting out the first few seconds of frames?

What are the specifics on this issue? Is it when motion only is selected? Can you select the DVR to detect motion while recording 24 7 just to help navigate the videos time line for activity or does this cause issues with frames lost also? Are they actively working to resolve this issue?

 

[aristobrat]

Here's how I understand it. I'm not a NVR expert, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, so this is all FWIW. If I'm way off base, I'm sure one of the resident gurus will get this thread back on the rails.

The issue happens because of how the Dahua NVR handles recording Motion Detection and IVS events (like line crossing, intrusion detection, etc)...

The NVR creates separate recordings for those events, which IMO is actually cool because you can just go and download the video file .... it's already "cut" for you.

The problem (at least with my NVR) is that those separate recordings rarely start with an iFrame, which is the only frame of video that the cameras send that has "everything in the shot". The frames the cameras send between iFrames only contain information about what motion changed relative to the frame before it.

When you try to play back a file that doesn't start with an iFrame, most video players (including the NVR) will show you nothing (i.e. a black frame) until it plays far enough into the file to come across an iFrame. So the NVR isn't technically cutting out any frames, it's just starting most files with frames that aren't useful.

You can configure the iFrame interval on each of your cameras down to where one is sent each second, which will help shorten the black blips. The Dahua default value is to send one every two seconds.

@EMPIRETECANDY has let Dahua support know about this. I don't know if they're actively working on this issue.

Two workarounds I've seen folks post about involve setting the NVR to *not* record Motion Detection or IVS events. Instead of recording, they have the camera (or NVR) set to send an email <or store a snapshot> anytime these events occur. They then use the date/time of the email (or the snapshot) to manually scrub through the timeline to find the event.

Personally, I deal with enough IVS and Motion Detection events that those workarounds aren't for me. I've setup Blue Iris on an old PC and am using that as my primary NVR now.

 

[aristobrat]

Here's a 47-second long video from early Easter Morning that I put together using several cameras.

Every time you see the screen flash gray, that's when the NVR created a separate recording that didn't start with an iFrame.

 

[rufunky]

Thanks for all that info aristobrat! So from the looks of things, if motion is enabled at all even with 24 7 monitoring ( Correct me if that's not even possible) then you end up with this issue. I'm not sure how long this problem has been around. Hopefully it was just in the latest firmware..I really hope Dahua fixes this issue soon :/

 

[Shockwave199]

If you're recording 24/7, dahua term being 'regular' recording, and motion recording, upon searching for the event you might try downloading the footage that specifies the time a bit longer than the event from the regular recording instead of the motion event. See if the regular recording footage does any better.

 

[c hris527]

So I ordered a Dahua NVR4108-8P-4KS2 and was reading that there is a problem with motion detection cutting out the first few seconds of frames?

What are the specifics on this issue? Is it when motion only is selected? Can you select the DVR to detect motion while recording 24 7 just to help navigate the videos time line for activity or does this cause issues with frames lost also? Are they actively working to resolve this issue?

Here is my view, I have 11 dahua NVr's out there and they ALL do it period!, including my own. The issues are hit and miss and there is no rhyme or reason to when it happens or why it happens. I have a few thoughts on this from 3 years of observations on dahua NVR's and a ungodly amount time trying to find a answer for this.
First off If you purchase one of these, expect it to happen. Number two, do not expect any support from your dealer to help you with this, they know full well about the issues. I have been dealing with 3 Different USA Dahua resellers and they are Official re-sellers and have ZERO answers. A updated firmware is not going to help you. Do not expect any answers from ALI resellers on this either. 24/7 recording is solid on these units so if you are in a mission critical situation, leave it at that. However, You can do a few things to make it better. Encoding I believe has some to do with this, If you must use motion and 24/7 combined, do not use the web gui or smart pss to view your playback. Things get worse, get your video directly from your NVR, its still has some issues but not as bad as remoting in. I have stopped using this feature altogether and switched to IVS. IVS still has some slight issues but much better and way more stable. Cameras play a role in this too, If you purchase ALI or discount amazon cameras, you might be getting chinese cameras with reworked english firmware and they are VERY buggy. There are numerous threads here (THANK YOU CORVETTE) for reworked chinese firmware into english translation. It helps big time. That has solved a few issues for me personally. I personally think that these NVR's have processing limitations and something suffers when things are really busy with a lot of recording going on at once. this is just my take on this in the real world so buyer beware.

 

[namtrab]

And this problem is what is going to keep me from getting Dahua. I was really impressed with the Starlight cams. I don't want to go the PC/BI route, as I wanted an NVR. And keeping things brand-centric is something I tend to do, anyway. Yes, the Starlights look MUCH better than other 4MP turrets. But, if we're going to end up with missing recordings, then the 4MP blows a black screen out of the water. Yes, I realize that there are some 'work-arounds' that can be done. I'm sorry, but that's not good enough for me. Especially when problems exist/persist, and it seems like nothing is really being done about it.

I am like most people, I'm sure, when it comes to "hobbies" such as this. I like to tinker. I like to 'mess with it' a bit. BUT, I really don't like having to tinker to make it work correctly in the first place. I want to tinker to try to 'improve' things, or make it do something I didn't know it could even do. But something as basic as getting recording/playback correct should be a priority when it comes to an NVR. That would be like buying a tire that sometimes holds air.

Unfortunately, I guess I will have to pass on the Dahua NVR, which means passing on the Starlight cams. Such a shame, as those Starlights looked awfully damn sweet. Maybe I'll hold off purchasing something else for a couple weeks and see if perhaps some type of legitimate fix happens.

If someone would like to 'steer me differently', I'm certainly all ears. I really wanted the Starlights, and a matching Dahua NVR. But, with a problem like this, I'm certainly shying away...

 

[Shockwave199]

You could get the starlights and put a big ass SD card in them and I think circumvent the problem with the nvr. That is, if you can seriously do with less archiving. I have a dahua 4208-8p and I've been minding a dahua 4 channel nvr for four years for a family member. My opinion is simple - record constantly. Motion detection is frankly overrated, even the smart stuff that is better. It only serves as a convenience for searching what you absolutely should be recording full time in the first place. Without any motion detection at all I can find what I need to fairly quickly. The only time it's more of a challenge is if I notice something a while later on, like a couple weeks. Even then it's not that difficult to find the event. It just takes a little longer. Should motion detection work without dropped frames? Absolutely. But no way I would opt out of the starlight cameras or a dahua nvr. Hang those awesome cameras and set the channels on full time record and there you go. A dropped frame wouldn't stop me from setting up ivs motion. I use old school pixel motion detection and don't have the problem. Every brand has niggles to deal with. Nothing would dissuade me from the starlights, though. The cameras are that good. But, to each their own.

 

[aristobrat]

If you're recording 24/7, dahua term being 'regular' recording, and motion recording, upon searching for the event you might try downloading the footage that specifies the time a bit longer than the event from the regular recording instead of the motion event. See if the regular recording footage does any better.

I didn't have any luck with that method. Selecting a minute extra on the front side still brought it down with the black frames, at least on mine.

 

[namtrab]

@Shockwave199...is this a possibility (see...I'm still trying to think of a way to get the Starlights). Can you use the NVR to do full time recording like you stated (no MD, no IVS...just 24/7 recording), and use an SD card to do MD (not IVS events, but just basic MD)? That way, I could check the card for any motion events and see what they are. And if those events give me a reason to need more footage than just the MD recording, I could find that on the timeline of the NVR.

 

[aristobrat]

@namtrab, check out @Crazykiller's workaround here:
#326

Instead of having his NVR do continuous recordings plus MD/IVS recordings, he's got his NVR to record continuously and just take snapshots (pictures) when MD/IVS events happen. He found that when you're using the SmartPSS client on your computer to look at the snapshots, you can click the video button, and it will take you to the timeline where the action occurred. That sounds pretty cool, I'll have to play with that tonight.

Also FWIW, with what my cameras are looking at, I could never get basic MD tuned to be useful. Even at its best, it was getting way too many false positives. Switching over to IVS (especially the intrusion detection feature with both the "crosses" and "appears" boxes checked) reduced the amount of false positives to virtually none. In terms of how the NVR or cameras record, there doesn't appear to be any difference between MD or IVS events.

 

[namtrab]

@aristobrat

Thank you. I was just reading up on @Crazykiller 's solution/fix. That sounds somewhat reasonable. Keep me/us posted on how it works for you once you get a chance to play with that idea...any caveats, other cons/pitfalls of doing it this way, etc.

Sorry for going a little off-topic with this, but a small question regarding Empire/Andy. I sent him an email a couple days ago requesting certain items with a Paypal invoice. I completely understand that he is a very busy person, so I am certainly not complaining about waiting a bit to hear back from him, even waiting a bit longer. But, at what point should I start thinking "Ok. I think maybe something is wrong, like he didn't get my email, or perhaps simply has overlooked my request", and perhaps contact him again? I don't wanna bug the guy unnecessarily. I'd rather the guy tend to his business so he can take care of customers. But at what point does it go from "he's just busy and will get back to me" to "something is wrong and I should contact him again"? A week? 2 weeks? A month? I have all the patience in the world. Heck, even if it takes another week, and then he writes me letting me know that it will be a month before he can take care of my order, I'm good with that. No problem. Just curious when the line gets crossed from a "typical delay" to "I should contact him again".

 

[namtrab]

OK...scratch my question about Andy/Empire. I just got an invoice from him a couple minutes ago! LOL! Damn, this guy is good!

 

[rufunky]

I really like the idea of having the NVR take a snapshot when motion or an event is detected to bookmark the time and date. I think that will actually work perfect. My surveillance system at work is setup for 24 7 recording but I can track motion with the color coded timeline. Come to think of it I don't think I have ever used it to find anything in the three + years I have had it lol.

I can wait till I have these starlights and this NVR in hand so I can get a first hand impression.

 

[rado stefano]

You could get the starlights and put a big ass SD card in them and I think circumvent the problem with the nvr.

Not a great solution.
IVS schedule recording does not exist in the camera software so it will not mark "record" IVS. This means you can not search for IVS .At least on IPC-HDW5231R-Z.

 

[CamCrazy]

This issue presumably is ongoing, I am experiencing it on a NVR5416-4KS2, IVS as a substitute isn't as reliable so surely we should be leaning on Dahua to get this resolved? apologies if there is a more current thread relating to this that I have missed.

 

[tigerwillow1]

The lost frame problem was fixed for me with new firmware in the 5216-4ks2. See this post:

Dahua NVR5xxx-4K new firmware changes in NVR5XXX-4K_Eng_V3.210.0003.0.R.20170418

The final post in the thread has a conformation from a different user.

 

[CamCrazy]

The lost frame problem was fixed for me with new firmware in the 5216-4ks2. See this post:

Dahua NVR5xxx-4K new firmware changes in NVR5XXX-4K_Eng_V3.210.0003.0.R.20170418

The final post in the thread has a conformation from a different user.

Thanks tigerwillow1, I will check the version to ensure the latest is installed.

 

[rufunky]

This issue presumably is ongoing, I am experiencing it on a NVR5416-4KS2, IVS as a substitute isn't as reliable so surely we should be leaning on Dahua to get this resolved? apologies if there is a more current thread relating to this that I have missed.

Yup, this issue is fixed with the latest firmware.

 

[rado stefano]

Yup, this issue is fixed with the latest firmware.

It took too long. I am on blue iris already...And BI is so much better sensing actual movement...