where to get POE switches for home setups

[jkajfes]

I tried looking through threads for the types of POE switches that could be used for a small home security camera setup and got confused with what should be used.

The setup I'm planning will have something like this:
2 cameras back of house
2 cameras front of house each side of garage
1 camera in a small alcove
1 camera inside garage
1 PTZ camera (if I can afford the cost at some point)

so it's a total of 6 what I would like to call regular type cameras or would use regular POE.

So how does one go about figuring out a solution. When I google POE switches I see some that listed as 8 but are really only 4 poe and 4 regular network points.

I'd like to get a POE swith that's not too expensive but has enough ports that I don'thave to gang switches together. I feel the large capacity switches are just too much for my setup?

 

[fenderman]

The large capacity switches tend to be loud because most have a fan and as you pointed out can be expensive...

Here are two options depending on your skill level/interest in learning. This is a simple unmanaged 8 port switch, gigabit... http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-SG1008PE-8-Port-Gigabit-802-3at/dp/B00E6LID0S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416619500&sr=8-1&keywords=8+port+poe+gigabit+switch

Here is a similar switch but it is a managed switch http://www.amazon.com/Fanless-Managed-Desktop-Switch-GS1900-8HP/dp/B00GU1KULM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416619182&sr=8-1&keywords=zyxel+poe
It allows all sorts of cool capablilities like vlan, power consumption numbers...rebooting the cameras via switch...etc...it has 8 full poe+ ports (only 7 are usable for devices as one needs to be hooked up to your network) it is gigabit and very reasonably priced...The only caveat is that it adds complexity and you just cannot connect it to the network before setting a proper ip address for the unit or it may conflict with the router (also if you do get it, update the firmware, and note that when you change a setting, Both are poe+ so if your eventual ptz requires poe+ you have that already...

 

[jkajfes]

Fenderman, thank you kindly for replying. I'll look at them both. I have so many question to ask as a newbie I don't even know where to start. I noticed you mentioned the fan and the noise factor and when I was looking I had made a note to try and avoid one with a fan if possible. Then I got to wondering where to you put or place these type of switches in a layout? My router switch is near my computers in my office. With security camera I think 5 of the cable runs will be in the roof, then run down to the basement and maybe that's where I should position the POE switch? Then run a single cable up to my computer stuff. I have my two NAS located there also. The noise of the fans from them, well I can't hear it or my hearing is not as good as it used to be. Also my UPS is with my computer equipment and not in the basement. I guess I'll have to consider a seperate UPS for the camera network if I can loosely call it that? No idea what to buy for that or what capacity.

I'm also wondering what type of CAT cable I should use. I'm inclined to go with CAT6 the wondering part is more of what type of CAT 6 and maybe a 1000 spool. I made up a bunch of network cables of various lengths so bought a crimping tool, and a package of RJ45 connectors. I sort of tranisitioned most of my old cable over to CAT6 for a gigabit network. I've been reading about stranded vs solid cable but I still not sure what cable to get. Can you tell me what you would use? I don't think the connectors would be the same either for stranded or solid wire and maybe the tool is different also?

Thank you for the tip on making sure you save changes and do the firmware updates.

I was also trying to read up on securing the camera network but right now I'm lost on that. I was playing with a single wireless camera a foscam but I sort of gave up on it. I wanted to return it I was so frustrated. It started acting up. I did take it back to them and they told me there was indeed something wrong with it. They were quite nice about it actually and it was sort of treat others like you would like to be treated. I decided to keep it because I'm so new at this stuff I can still learn some stuff from it... I just really don't like the plugin in trouble I'm having with firefox... I just can't get it to work. It works with IE or I can get into the camera with IE... but I have to default to IE get into the camera and then default back to firefox... it's just messy...

The other thing I really haven't done is figure out how each of the cameras is going to draw in power consumption... as I haven't chosen all of them yet. I did buy another one a Hikvision DS-2Cd2132-I 3MP camera 2.8 lens H.264 It say uses 5 watts but probably the 7watts with ICR use.... It's coming in a couple of weeks and I get a chance to try it. So I have to figure the switch out wattage wise...

The Tp Link doesn't mention POE+ but you mentioned it as a POE+ switch just double checking that point.... it's total wattage is also higher but it's unmanaged...

I kinda like the features you're talking about in the ZyXel... years ago and I'm talking many years ago I owned a ZyXEL modem and it was a great device at the time... I suppose I could get that to start.

Figuring out all the bits and pieces is a bit daunting. It sort of fun but so many decisions! ha.

 

[fenderman]

You can put the switches anywhere in the network, which is one reason to consider two smaller switches so that you can have the switches at different locations closer to the camera and only run a single cable back to the router and not homerun each cable...homerunning makes for a neater setup and a central location and the ability to use a single ups..its really up to you..I am not clear as to what you mean by running the cable in the roof..but dont mount any cameras high up because they will be useless in terms of ID because you will get head shots not face shots..
Getting proper cable is VERY important. Get from known suppliers like monoprice or cable matters...not ebay sellers or third party amazon sellers (cable matters does sell direct on amazon.) Go with CAT6 the price difference is not significant. Make sure the cable is solid copper and NOT copper clad aluminium or CCA...you should also be using SOLID cable not stranded (stranded cable is used for patch cables because they can withstand constant bending)...You may also want shielded cat6 but its generally not needed unless running close to power lines are concerned about interference of some kind.

Dont worry about power consumption on the hikvisions , you will never max out a poe switch with the basic cams..they only pull about 3w without ir and i think 5 with IR
As far as POE+ on the tplink, its in the description and also on their website..its overkill for your application but that switch is a good deal and you are not overpaying for the extra function.
http://www.tp-link.com/lk/products/details/?model=TL-SG1008PE

As an aside, the foscam is junk as you have learned...but its nice that you only got stuck with one camera..
As far as the Hikvision DS-2Cd2132-I it is a 2 axis camera and can only be mounted on a ceiling or horizontal surface not wall mounted (unless you use a mount)...also you should read this thread and post #10 by milkisbad who posted a pdf to deal with any IR reflection...
http://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php?1177-Hikvision-Foggy-as-***&highlight=foggy
I would get the hikvision turret model 2332 or 3332 (same thing) that eliminates the ir reflection issues and can be wall mounted and is very easy to aim...they are also available in 2.8mm
As far as securing the network, the best bet is using a VPN...
At the very least, change passwords from default and set the hikvision to alter you when there is a login attempt with the wrong password.
What will you be using for recording?

 

[jkajfes]

2332-3332 do you have links to these cameras? are they similar to mine but without actual domes...

for now I plan to use Qnap TS870 for storage of footage... I don't want to get into a dedicated NVR at least not right now... I was hoping to use their Surveillance station at least that's what I'm attempting to use.

I did start reading about Blue Iris but it seems pretty intensive on cpus, possibly having to run it on a dedicated computer... using the ss sfotware the activity is there and the TS870 seems to deal with it but that's only the one camera... I'll have to see what happens when it's loaded down with 5-6...

 

[fenderman]

http://www.hikvision.com/en/us/Products_show.asp?id=9125
These 2332 turrets are better in every way than the 2132 dome and are about the same price...about 95 dollars on aliexpress...
Here is a review http://www.networkcameracritic.com/?p=2135

 

[jkajfes]

Thank you for taking the time for these additional comments. I greatly appreciate the insight you're giving me. I'm mostly in the information gathering stage and trying a few things out. I'm already messing up but thankfully I'm not going with my usual impluse of buying everything like 8 camera up front and finding they're not going to work.

I did read the link you posted about the IR bouncing off the dome. I fear when that camera arrives I'm not going to like it. Honestly I did see the link you provided on the review of Hik 332-i before but I didn't make good enough notes! I think I'll order one of those because everything about it seems pretty good thanks for recommending that one. I think I'm going to end up buying them one at a time and trying each out. Maybe I'll end up with 3-4 the same.

I'm not sure where to get the cable you like in Canada.. Could you go into a bit of detail of how you make the ends and what crimper tool and RJ45 connectors you've had success with. If you've already detailed this and you more than likely have can you give me a link to were you might have discussed it and I'll read through that?

I'm sort of staying with the idea of using my Ts870 with Qnaps SS program at least for now I bought 4 new 3TB drives, have installed them because I store a lot of movies and tv programs, and footage I shoot and play around with editing wise. I'm a novice so the space I increased for this is flexible and before I fill it up I'l like the opportunity to use SS with some cameras and store some security footage that can be deleted. I'm already getting a feel for what detail I like and want to store. These files if you run 24/7 take up a lot of room. I think setting up the moition aspect on some of the camera is something to consider if not to just keep the volume down in files.

I'm wondering about the 3332 ability to handle winter weather, it looks pretty exposed and I guess that's one of the underlying or hidden reason I went with a dome earlier. I thought it would be more protected. I don't know about snow getting in around this camera. Mayby someone who has one running under these conditions could comment. Talking about snow I live near Toronto and heard about the snow they got in buffalo. It was incredible some like 6 ft in some areas!... I think it would be ineteresting to see home the security camera in that area hold up especially the ones that were installed down from soffits on the sides of buildings, homes so you'd get a better prespective on features...

 

[fenderman]

First, I wouldnt worry about the 2132, it is still a good camera, you just need to be careful when mounting it..
The 2332 is just as weather resistant as the 2132, they both have an ip66 rating (-30°C ~ 60°C (-22°F ~ 140°F)) and many users report that they work just fine at lower temps....its not exposed at all, it just looks that way..the camera is really all the the "ball" portion and that is tightly sealed.
As far as making cables, there are tons of videos online on how to do this..some folks like using the EZ crimper and plugs...I dont know who sells cable in canada..but this is a VERY important item (even more than the camera, because you only want to run these once and a poor cable can cause all sorts of problems) You need to be certain that you are getting quality cable from the supplier..

 

[jkajfes]

Thanks for the link fenderman. I should have had the foresight to google the topic and I did google more after you sent me the link. I did notice there's a slight difference between Cat5 and Cat6 connector modules. Not much but it's there and some involve more than just shoving the wires in and doing the crimp. Not having any experience with using them with POE camera setups I think I'll follow the diretions that came with the ones I got. I made quite a number of inside Catt5 and then CAT6 custom connections to shorten cable runs. None of my runs involved long distances so it would be hard to tell if there was any significant differences... this was related to organizing the Nas's, computers plugged into the network etc.

I want to ask if you have any experience with PTZ camera setups. Some of the camera look quite large or sort of. I google the topic and watched a number of videos. One of the things I noticed and it was hard to tell because in a lot of the videos they're put to music or something else or there's no ambient room audio. I wanted to know just how noisy they can be with the servos running things I heard a few where they sounded quite loud and would be an annoyance to sit near them listening to the servo noises... I realize a lot depends on applications and where they're mounted but the noise was enough for me to be concerned. I'm wondering if they have managed to reduce the noise...

I suppose I should be asking this as another question in the appropriate area of the forums?
thanks

 

[fenderman]

I do not have any direct experience with the newer ptz's and i normally recommend two fixed cameras instead...However there are some here how have used PTZ's in connection with motion and magnetic sensors (to move the ptz to presets) to fully take advantage of the ptz's capability. Admin @vector18 installs the dahua ptz's all the time (check out some of his posts with really nice clean installs). Member @nayr has a dahua ptz should be able to comment on them as well (he has some posts detailing his ptz setup with the sensors).

 

[vector18]

I was just talking to a customer of mine the other day which I installed a PTZ on the back of his told me at first, his son complained that when he went to sleep, he could hear the camera touring. The son didn't really complain that much cause he said he usually falls asleep with the TV on, but that one night, he didn't have the TV on, he was hearing it moving around.

 

[jkajfes]

...thank you for the additional comments gentlemen. That's another topic I need to review "clean installs" some things can come to gether very nicely and others if you've not preplanned and are in a hurry can get quiet messy. Vector18 do you remember the type or model number of that install? I'm curious and would like to maybe make a list of what might be quieter than others. I think the smaller ones and especially the ones with the closed domes around them would be the quietest. Also depending on size I don't know how much would transfer through vibration to whatever the camera base/bracket is attached to.

This has all come about because at the front of my house where I want to put one there's a bedroom and during the summer I use open windows rather than airconditioning so it's open to noise creeping in. In following these things or the last few years they've been shrinking them in size, they have more features and I woud assume are getting quieter as designs improve. I've read about some that are used in hospitals, maybe libraries and such where there's more attention paid to noise levels.

The one I'm interested in and is more than likely going to come from China is... well I wouldn't call it old school but one of the larger units that you might see mounted in industrial parks or up high on buildings or high on poles and where concern for noise and vibration isn't a priority. Using those for home installations depending on the homeowner they might not be as receptive. I wouldnt be surprised after some homeowners installed a unit they didn't take into account the constant roaming of their units. I suppose it's something to keep in mind. I don't have unlimited funds and I'm not too concerned about the looks, or the size of the unit(s) I ultimately go with. It's more for learning stuff but if it's functional who'd want to take it down.

 

[jkajfes]

I saw Nayr's setup over the front door... nice install. I just have to comment on his vaping. I myself am 5 months tobacco free! That's another story but I had smoked for 35 years and I can't believe I'm off the damn things... and the vaping hardware well you name it I'll probably blown a cloud with it. I'm into making my own e-juice and flavours... Nayr you have any idea how much a gallon nic juice would cost ya!... let's see 1gal. 3785.41/30=126.18x 20.00/30mil is 2,523.60 that's a pretty good security system I suppose! ha. Then again that's a gallon of e-juice.