Which is better amcrest or lorex?

[Myotape22]

I'm trying to order one of these systems tonight for black Friday or Monday for cyber Monday. I've been reading on cameras for awhile now and im torn between these 2 systems.
I posted 2 links below and if anyone could give me any insight on which system you would get and why i would appreciate it.

I like the turret style, they both have good night vision and I like the 4k resolution. Both are around the same price with the black Friday coupons.

Amcrest:

Amcrest 4K Security Camera System with 4K 8CH PoE NVR, 6 x 4K (8-Megapixel) IP67 Weatherproof Metal Turret Dome POE IP Cameras (3840x2160), 2.8mm Wide Angle Lens, NV4108E-T2599EW6-2TB (White)

Amcrest 4K Security Camera System with 4K 8CH PoE NVR, 6 x 4K (8-Megapixel) IP67 Weatherproof Metal Turret Dome POE IP Cameras (3840x2160), 2.8mm Wide Angle Lens, NV4108E-T2599EW6-2TB (White)

amcrest.com

Lorex:

4K Ultra HD 8-Channel Fusion NVR System with 6 Smart Deterrence IP Audio Dome Cameras

4K Ultra HD IP NVR System with 6 Outdoor 4K 8MP IP Dome Cameras

www.lorextechnology.com

 

[brianegge]

I’d suggest Amcrest for commercial and Lorex for home. Amcrest designs more features for businesses but costs a but more. For example, their cameras are installed with a vandal resistant torque wrench, while Lorex has simple Phillips screws.
Most Amcrest firmware have SNMP while Lorex do not. This is mostly useful for larger networks which you already have monitoring.
Amcrest app supports ip and p2p, while Lorex only has p2p.
Amcrest sometimes updates their firmware, while Lorex never does.

Lorex often has very reasonable kits at Costco, while Amcrest is sold mostly via their website and Amazon.

 

[Myotape22]

It would be for my acreage. Not super worried about vandal resistant. I read that amcrest is onvif compliant while lorex is not. But the lorex system has smart detection. Do you have any experience with that at all for vehicle detection?

 

[wittaj]

Lorex and Amcrest are both re-branded Dahua cams with features stripped out of them to appeal to the masses - i.e. plug and play.

Do a search on the forum for those kits. They will never perform well at night and certainly not at 100 feet at night despite the "claim". Actually most cameras will not work at the rated "IR" distance except for maybe a nice still shot - add some motion and that distance drops exponentially.

You will quickly be disappointed in those which I believe are 2.8mm cameras, especially at night.

Too many people get fascinated with 4K and the wide angle views that 2.8mm and other "all in one units" and such can provide and chase megapixels. But the picture is really no different than taking a pic from the same place with a cell phone - take that picture and then zoom in and it is a pixelated mess.

You would be shocked how close someone needs to be to a 2.8 lens in order to ID them.

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his 4 Lorex cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away.

When we had a thief come thru here and get into a lot of cars, the police couldn't use one video or photo from anyone's system that had fixed 2.8mm or 3.6mm cams - those cams sure looks nice and gives a great wide angle view, but you cannot identify anyone at 15 feet out. At night you cannot even ID someone from 10 feet. Meanwhile, the perp didn't come to my house but walked past on the sidewalk at 80 feet from my house and my 2MP varifocal zoomed in to a point at the sidewalk was the money shot for the police.

In fact my system was the only one that gave them useful information. Not even my other neighbors $1,300 4K Lorex system from Costco provided useful info - the cams just didn't cut it at night. His system wasn't even a year old and after that event has started replacing with cameras purchased from @EMPIRETECANDY on this site based on my recommendation and seeing my results - fortunately those cams work with the Lorex NVR. He is still shocked a 2MP camera performs better than his 4K...

My first few systems were the box units that were all 2.8mm lens and while the picture looked great in daytime, to identify someone you didn't know is impossible unless they are within 10 feet of the camera, and even then it is tough. You are getting the benefit coming to this site of hearing thoughts from people that have been there/done that.

We all hate to be that guy with a system and something happens and the event demonstrates how poor our system was and then we start the update process. My neighbor with his expensive kit system is that guy right now and is still fuming his system failed him.

 

[Myotape22]

I want the best bang for my buck in a camera system. The lorex sustem has the deterrence features that I wouldn't use like the flashing light or the siren. But I like the fact with amcrest if 1 camera goes down I could buy any camera and replace it.

 

[wittaj]

I want the best bang for my buck in a camera system. The lorex sustem has the deterrence features that I wouldn't use like the flashing light or the siren. But I like the fact with amcrest if 1 camera goes down I could buy any camera and replace it.

As you can see from my book above LOL, this is possible with the Lorex as well. But not any camera in either case - still needs to be able to talk to the NVR and most will suggest you match manufacturer's at least.

 

[Myotape22]

As you can see from my book above LOL, this is possible with the Lorex as well. But not any camera in either case - still needs to be able to talk to the NVR and most will suggest you match manufacturer's at least.

I just read all that. So if my budget was around 7-800. What should I be looking at then for an nvr and cameras? Do the varifocal cameras rotate or just zoom in when motion is detected?

 

[wittaj]

The varifocals do neither - it is a PTZ that zooms and rotates. The varifocal you manually set the direction when installing and the varifocal is meant to zoom in to a pinch point - allow you to get closer to the action than you can with a 2.8mm wide field of view. Varifocals are also not intended to be used to zoom all the time - zoom it to a set point and forget it.

It comes down to what is your primary focus now and what would it be in the future.

If it is strictly for acreage, I would go with a wide angle 2.8mm or two and a PTZ to do just what you are suggesting.

Normally we do not like to have a PTZ for single coverage as the PTZ will be pointing in the wrong direction when needed.

But it comes down to what you are trying to accomplish. The nice thing about the kit is you can install and then replace out individual cameras as budget and demand necessitates. My neighbor that replaced a few cams from the Costco kit went with a PTZ and a stronger varifocal.

 

[brianegge]

What should I be looking at then for an nvr and cameras?

What do you want to use it for? Do you want to be able to id a thief or have nice views of your outside from inside the house. My Lorex cams look great during the day, but at night moving objects are just a blur. See my deer post for an example of a slow moving object.

For Lorex you should be able to get kit + dvr for < $100 per cam.

 

[Myotape22]

Here's what I'm trying to do. I just built a garage attached to my house. I have a router in my garage which is going to be home base for my security cams. I have 2 driveways I want to catch on camera which are to the south and south west. Then 3 out buildings to the west and another building and dog shed to the north. Furthest point would be the road which would be 110' or so. I would like to be able to identify a make and model of cars driving by

 

[wittaj]

Yeah that will be impossible with those kits, especially at night.

Use this website to pull up your property and then select the cams and it will give you an idea as to what you can actually identify at specific distances.

IPVM Designer / Calculator

Using Google Maps, layout and design cameras, choosing from 10,000+ models, delivering FoV and image quality previews plus export to PDF, Powerpoint and more

calculator.ipvm.com

 

[Myotape22]

The sheds are probably 75' or so. Away from where the cameras would be mounted. So I dont expect to be able to identify anyone that far away but i would like to be able to tell if it's a boy or girl or an animal not just a blob.

 

[wittaj]

Look at this chart below - the person would need to be within 13 feet to recognize them with a 2.8mm lens. As I tell my neighbors with their 2.8 mm cams on their house saying they can recognize people at the street, I am like that is only possible if you already know the person and be able to recognize them based on their walk, clothing, body type, etc., but put a total stranger in the frame and the picture will be fairly useless. I recognize most of the people I see on my 2.8mm overview cam, but a total stranger goes by and not much you could tell the police, maybe clothing color, but nothing to identify them.

You can detect someone at 75 feet and beyond and maybe be able to "recognize" them if you know them and can tell their body dimension, walk, etc., but will never be able to identify a stranger or have a good enough image to share with the police.

You would need probably around 32mm for 75 feet. In cameras, a 2.8mm versus a 32mm results in a dramatic improvement over a distance.

And you will see because of that small lens size, that if you digital zoom, it is a pixel blurry mess real fast.

 

[Myotape22]

so what MM can you varifocal zoom into?

 

[wittaj]

This varifocal has a 32mm -

https://www.amazon.com/Loryta-IPC-B5442E-Z4E-Starlight-8mm-32mm-Motorized/dp/B07ZGF9BRW/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1606539133&redirect=true&s=merchant-items&sr=1-6

This varifocal has a 60mm -

https://www.amazon.com/Loryta-IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E-Starlight-Network-English/dp/B07RJQT9NB/ref=sr_1_16?dchild=1&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1606539034&redirect=true&s=merchant-items&sr=1-16&tag=ipctk-20

This PTZ has a 120mm -

https://www.amazon.com/Loryta-SD49225XA-HNR-Starlight-Network-Tracking/dp/B081RJJQT4/ref=sr_1_28?dchild=1&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1606331744&redirect=true&s=merchant-items&sr=1-28

Pull each one of these up in that website I referenced above and you can see representative how close you can see at what distance.

 

[Myotape22]

ok now im confused so how does a person know what those cameras can link into for an NVR?

 

[wittaj]

They can link into Amcrest, Dahua, and Lorex systems for sure. These are rebranded Dahua, so if the NVR claims Amcrest, Dahua, or Lorex will work, then so will these.

 

[Myotape22]

so im messing around on that website and pretty much the camera i need is Dahua 8A840WANF and costs about 3 grand lol

 

[wittaj]

You could buy two or three at that price lol..

This one is half and could probably serve your needs lol - Amazon.com : EmpireTech SD6AL433XA-HNR 4MP 33x Starlight+ Laser WizMind Support Hi-PoE Network PTZ Camera English Version

But this shows that you would rather as @looney2ns says "buy once, cry once" than to invest close to a grand on a 2.8mm kit and be disappointed.

 

[Myotape22]

yeah so im still on that website and i definately under estimated the distance to the road which is 175' from where i wanted to place a camera... on that website is there a way to add a vehicle instead of a person simulator?