Why I am finally upgrading cameras

Madflamethrower

Getting the hang of it
Jan 1, 2025
52
35
CT
Back when I was still working, I was offered a deal on Nest cameras. They would replace the Logitechs that I had been using...that proved to be junk too. The ease of setup and the zoom detail during daylight is what sold me on the Nest. I wanted to keep an eye on my rural property when I was at work. I've owned this place for 34 yrs, with the occasional visitor who was ether lost, wrong address or just nosy. This past summer, I had 2 incidents that made me realize what I had was not going to cut it. This video is the late night visitor that I mentioned in my intro post. Look at the top, just left of center in the vid, and you can see the vehicle pull in and then kill their headlights. Be patient as then you can see the flicker of their brake lights as they creep along the lower level slowly, before they stop at the base of the incline and shift into park. After siting there briefly, they kicked the lights back on and drove up to the house, and then turned around and left. Nothing else happened. I did pay close attention and noticed they turned right out of my driveway when they left, which is the same direction they came from. That alone made me suspect of their intentions. Nothing else resulted from this late night visit other than maybe they scoping out what was here.

 
Yeah that is pretty bad, and all that house providing IR bounce isn't helping at all either.

The same problem will happen with a better camera with the same field of view.

Sliding that camera so that the house isn't in the field of view will help the image tremendously, as will a good wipe of the lens LOL
 
Here are a couple pics from another camera. If I hadn't left the motion for the flood light set to manual ctrl, for sure I would've seen the lic plate clearly.



 
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Yeah that is pretty bad, and all that house providing IR bounce isn't helping at all either.

The same problem will happen with a better camera with the same field of view.

Sliding that camera so that the house isn't in the field of view will help the image tremendously, as will a good wipe of the lens LOL
Really?? I'll have to look into this further and maybe you can make some suggestions on how to correct it. But when I place 1 or 2 cams down on the lower drive, I would hope IR bounce won't be an issue.
 
The mentality a lot of people have is they want to see everything, but when it comes time to use their capture as evidence, they lack the detail. It also doesn't help that most Box and Cloud systems will come with 2.8mm cameras and only exacerbate the problem.

One camera cannot do it all. Several incorrectly spec'd cameras isn't the solution either.

You cannot see everything and still see details. Getting good details does not allow you to see everything; it is a give and take.

This is why a good system will have cameras that complement each other, and work well in low light. This is also why a PTZ is a complement to a good, already established system and should not be heavily relied on by itself.

When planning your system and layout start by focusing on choke points and set up fields of view to capture details and give the ability to ID. This means all this camera will be able to do/see is the very narrow scope of its job. You can then deploy a more general overview cam to give context to the details. This overview cam can support one or more of your choke point ID cams.

For instance, as an extreme example. I am deploying this camera. It's only job is to see people walking down the path behind my house. This is what I see 99% of the time when I look at the feed.
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However, this is what I see when someone walks down the path, 95' feet away.
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I then have these two cameras I can use to get a better idea/context of what they were doing and where they may have come from or gone to. The kill zone is between the green lines and the camera is on the fence at the bottom, center of the picture. You can see someone just entering the KZ and the 3.6mm focal length of this cam gives absolutely no details other than it might be a person.
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This is the person in the above wide angle shot, and there is no way you would have been able to tell it was a male, in a red, flannel shirt, with sunglasses, and a receding hairline.
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You should look at your system as an investment.

Many here will say that the T5442 / T54IR is the best bang for the buck and I would need to agree with them.

I started with Lorex (they use Dahua cameras). I bought and installed a Lorex analog MPX system. They were 2MP cameras in 2.8mm focal lengths. I then won a Lorex giveaway and was sent a 2K IP camera system with 2 turrets and 4 bullets and ran the two systems in parallel.

I managed to get a usable capture of a neighborhood vandal, but it wasn't all that great. It mainly confirmed the suspect, but wasn't good enough to search someone down.

What ultimately pushed me to using Blue Iris and Loryta/Empiretech cameras was when my house was struck by lightning; it took out my Lorex systems and I needed to start over. Cameras multiply like rabbits; once you can see part of your property you will want to see all of your property. This is especially true when something happens and you realize there is a hole in your coverage.

A properly spec'd Loryta/Empiretech camera and system may increase your budget a little, but the goal is to have usable footage. I look at my camera system as an investment; let's say the whole thing has cost me $5000. That is a lot of money, but I now have a higher chance of catching the vandals, thieves, stranger dangerers, etc that come around my house and, because of this, have a greater chance of recovering my loss. If I had not made the investment I would likely be out my loss PLUS adding on the cost of the system for the next time it might happen. We get posts all of the time with people reacting to a loss Stolen Lawn Equipment and Tools

I have had a couple friends get interested in putting in a system, but it never goes anywhere once I tell them it's more than just slapping up a couple cameras from Costco. It does take work, but once set up with quality equipment you should be good to go. One of them recently had a tractor stolen and still has not put a proper system in place.

Buy once, cry once, and get experience and knowledge along the way.

I have learned a lot since joining and try to pay it forward when possible. This is a post I put together with images from my journey showing the differences between focal lengths, install heights, changing fields of view, etc.

 
Yeah that is pretty bad, and all that house providing IR bounce isn't helping at all either.

The same problem will happen with a better camera with the same field of view.

Sliding that camera so that the house isn't in the field of view will help the image tremendously, as will a good wipe of the lens LOL
With the top pic, that doesn't have the IR bounce off the house is what you are referring too? The pic is still lame, but is definitely clearer
 
I doubt you would have got the plate with those cameras.

That top pic is representative of the pixelated mess of wifi cams with motion, but yes that doesn't have IR bounce messing with the exposure, but it is still pretty bad.

Here is what you get with a better camera - this vehicle is going 30mph. How fast is that vehicle going in your image LOL

1735831825583.png
 
The 2nd incident was this asswipe. There is a story behind it and what he also did later that night after I flipped him off., but sufficient to say it took me several months to finally track him down. I paid the biz a visit and currently waiting to meet with the owner after the holidays are over. I now know why I could see detail with the live vid, but when I went back to look at the recording...forget it, it sucked for detail. That optical versus digital zoom was the reason...thanks to wittaj for pointing that out in one of his posts.

 
I doubt you would have got the plate with those cameras.

That top pic is representative of the pixelated mess of wifi cams with motion, but yes that doesn't have IR bounce messing with the exposure, but it is still pretty bad.

Here is what you get with a better camera - this vehicle is going 30mph. How fast is that vehicle going in your image LOL

View attachment 211098

Wow...30mph, won't dispute what you say as you clearly know more than I. But I have been able to read plates at night with the flood light on in the past. No matter tho...its time to step up with real surveillance cameras.
 
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Here is the a pic from the apron looking in. I'm thinking place one camera somewhere in this location


An one from the base of the incline where I put a test mule cam trying to find an ideal location. I'm hoping 2 new cameras will give me the detail I want for this area. The house cams will have to wait for the upgrade.
 
Do the Dahua and Hikvision cameras have a shield to prevent rain from building up on the lens? Or do I need to put a lid above them. These 2 drive cams will be out in the open. I notice the state of CT uses road cams and theirs don't have a lid, but what looks like a shield above the lens. This pis is from the cheap test mule
 
Wow...30mph, won't dispute what you say as you clearly know more than I. But I have been able to read plates at night with the flood light on in the past. No matter tho...its time to step up with real surveillance cameras.

You may get the occasional read under ideal conditions - plate was close enough and the vehicle stopped long enough for the slow shutter that consumer grade cameras operate under, etc. But if the perp keeps the car moving, all bets are off on a consumer grade camera that favors bright image at the expense of motion blur.

Here is what I get from a vehicle doing the posted speed limit at 175 feet away from my camera at night (no streetlights either just the IR of the camera):

1735833436407.png

No consumer grade camera will be able to capture that with a vehicle in significant motion, not even if the distance was closer.
 
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Do the Dahua and Hikvision cameras have a shield to prevent rain from building up on the lens? Or do I need to put a lid above them. These 2 drive cams will be out in the open. I notice the state of CT uses road cams and theirs don't have a lid, but what looks like a shield above the lens. This pis is from the cheap test mule


The bullet cameras have a bit of a shield but the turrets, domes, and PTZs do not.

Usually if the camera is angled down a bit it isn't an issue, but if the predominant direction is towards the camera, many have built a shield.
 
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Lastly...this is what I want to set up with motion ctrl. :pThat'll fix these ####'s from driving up my driveway. I currently am in the process of getting a repro M7, this one is just a toy. Maybe not motion activated, but if some prick pulls a late nite stunt again, I won't hesitate to give them a taste of an M7 if they come up to the house. An original M7 will shoot flames up to164'o_O:D
 
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Lastly...this is what I want to set up with motion ctrl. :pThat'll fix these ####'s from driving up my driveway. I currently am in the process of getting a repro M7, this one is just a toy. Maybe not motion ctrl activated, but if some prick pulls a late nite stunt again, I won't hesitate to give them a taste of an M7 if they come up to the house. A M7 will shoot flames up to164'o_O:D

Oh there is an app for that function ;)
 
@Ri22o

Appreciate the info!! I want to spend some time understanding what you said better and follow that link. I'll do it later as I have to go out shortly for an appt.


His post goes together with the thread I linked in your other post about the importance of focal length. It is important to spend some time to figure out what the goal is of each camera and location.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A wide angle 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.


Say whaaaaaat???? lol

Oh I assure you we can rig up a way for the VMS system (Blue Iris) to trigger that bad boy.
 
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wittaj...That thread of yours is open in another tab. I spend time trying to understand and retain it all, before I take a break. Its quite a bit to comprehend in one sitting. I NEED to understand better and figure out what 2 cameras will work for the lower drive...IF 2 will cut it. For sure I will get at least 2 cams.