Why I am finally upgrading cameras

Madflamethrower said:
So here's where I am.... I am trying to figure out everything I need to set this up. Even tho this is all new to me, I am more than capable to do this part. Just need a little guidance to ensure I do it right. I want to be sure I fully understand everything required and not run into something I wasn't expecting.

I found a couple illustrations showing 2 different setups. Is this what I want for 4 cameras? I doubt I'd need anymore than that for the lower driveway. Do I use both a NVR and a dedicated PC? I thought it was one or the other. If someone has a better pic or link that would show what I need, I'd appreciate it.


From the cameras to the POE switch that Ri22o linked would be fiber with RJ45's. Does that POE switch need to be outside, or could I put it inside the house? Is the fiber flexible enough to use for everything else in the house or would I switch to cat5 for that?

Materials needed so far are the POE switch, a roll of fiber, box of RJ45 terminals and the tools needed to install them. I'll stop here so I don't cause any more confusion like I did earlier.

Thanx!
Click to expand...

iirc on some NVRs w/PoE ports gets complicated to get the cameras to run a switch off that port.
 
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After reading several threads here, I'm starting to really understand the key differences between the plug and play and the true VSS cameras. The Sub Stream Guide was also a good read. Easy to understand for the most part, while very informative. I still have lots to learn, esp with BI...some of it may as well be in chinese.o_O But I'll get there eventually. I truly want to get a solid handle on these systems and how to use them. I've been keeping notes and saving thread links for reference.

I've started to pay closer attention to details between my plug & play Nest pics and the Dahua pics. For example the pixels and how it affects the pic clarity. IR bounce is another point of interest. While somewhat aware of the effects it caused, I never gave it much more than a passing thought. That is until it was pointed out to me early in this thread. And seeing the same pic from wittaj, with and without it was interesting. I was intending on asking if trees would be an issue for IR bounce, but he answered that with his pics.

I previously mentioned I wanted to set up a temporary camera to monitor the driveway apron because the alarm would randomly trigger during the day. Night time I wasn't too concerned on clarity because I now know the limitations the Nest cams have. But at least I could see if any headlights were present down there. Today I placed one of my Nest cams at what I thought was an ideal spot. But I immediately recognized the few trees would present a problem. Not much I could do about it, so I went ahead and mounted the camera. Besides, I'm still several months away from being able to start setting up a new system...yes I've firmly decided to forget wifi and go hardwired everything. Not to mention the buying everything I need and understanding how to use it all. So no doubt I have some work to do before I'm up and running.

Not wanting to get too wordy, here's a couple pics that allowed me to see first hand what effect the trees would have. I was amazed to see how bright the trees were and how they detracted from seeing the target zone. The lights you see down there are from a passing car on the road. I did trim a few branches and cleaned the lens too since it was pointed out to me once already.:wave:


 
I'd like to utilize both a NVR and a laptop, but also keep a monitor on full time with all the cams showing live stream...if that's possible. I know to be sure to match the NVR to the cameras. But still iffy on the LT specs. But appears there is some leeway in that an older system would still perform adequately with BI. As for the media converter and POE switch, probably follow what Ri22o suggested and use a POE switch at both ends. I'll continue reading and trying to sort it all out to meet my expectations. I had no idea the amount of knowledge required to build and operate a quality VSS system. I remember my last job at the dealership. They had an elaborate system that included dozens of cameras to cover 14 acres. An seeing all the camera views on one screen caught my attention. After that, I knew I wanted something similar someday.
 
1 of 2 things will make that look better.. Either move the camera in front of the tree or use an external IR Blaster in front of the tree and turn off the IR on the camera.. iluminar and looking at the day picture I would maybe use a 312-2 60 degree comes with a 5 year warranty.. They have cheaper models with shorter warranty just want to pick a solution that will fit your needs.. One thing about their leds is you can get a Remote Sold Separately that you can control the output of the leds and setup for different options. The remote I think is like 25 or 30ish USD.. Don't need the remote but is important to be able to control output. I mean right now some of my cameras that normally use IR have not even turned on the IR because of the snow and cameras can see with just the light around.. Normally needs IR.. With your Blaster if had snow and wanted to turn down how bright it is just using the remote to change output to say 60% or less if and when needed.. I have had some of my lights for over 9+ years..
 
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Thanks

Interesting suggestion and something I may look into. But remember this cam is just temporary for daytime viewing of the apron activity because I get random triggers from it the alarm. I had to use 100' of ext cord to power it. So not sure how long I want to leave it out there.
 
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Damn, that sux...just looked at the Blaster and its only rated for 85'. The apron is 600' away, not that I'd expect any kind of detail from night vision with these Nests. This is what this thread is all about. I'm done with wifi cams and want to place hardwired cameras on that lower level of the driveway.
 
Well they have one that will see over 600 feet and even one that works up to 919 feet so they have options but I do have a 623 White LED from them that I bought in early 2016 that I use with my Long range bullet camera.. But they are not cheap.. But neither was the cameras so I had to have something just as good in quality.. Mind you I bought the lights first lol. The cameras that has a 143mm long range zoom lens replaced my 32x PTZ cameras that didn't have any lights to start with seeing they were also bought back in 16.. Also have some long range IR lights from them. My wife said I should have just bought stock might have cost me less lol..
 
I didn't see the longer range. Just looked again and only found 100' on that link unless I overlooked it. But how much would it really give me using these Nest cams. No sense in spending money for minimal gain. For now I just want to know if its a vehicle triggering the alarm.
 
Also the one I first mentioned was a 312 foot model, Not sure where you found the 85' from but at the 60 degree is over 100' and with a 10degree version will do 312 feet.. Like my 623 model will do up to 623 feet but the 100 degree for over 100 feet with my ir one at 30 degrees for over 300 feet of IR.. Anyway just something as an option.. Being a Temp solution not something someone would want to spend the cash on I am sure..

But yes for your nest cameras to be honest view is what you can see with light.. So high enough power light is going to see even more then what the IR on the camera would ever be able to see.. But yeah there are cheaper options out there and even if it was to by one said to be high power that could see anything with 10 degree or 30 degree would be a big gain. Would you be able to make anything out to ID No but then the camera can't do that even in the day. Again getting the light at range would be a benefit and also getting past that tree that is changing your cameras setting because of the IR light that is hitting the tree that is why there is no much to see at distance at night.. But again you said mainly for day time use.. So guess don't really matter was again just trying to give some options..
 
Looks like I was wrong regarding rj45 and fiber.I know jack about fiber and thought rj45 was used. Now that I know how fiber is done, I suspect I should hire a pro for putting on the terminals. For Cat5 or 6 I have no doubt I could do it even tho I never have.

That said...the company that will be doing the fiber was here this am. Got to talking to him...hard to understand. Maybe Aussie or English? or ?. From what I understood, he's telling me I would be better off using cat5 or even 6 instead of fiber for the cameras. He agreed fiber is better for high speed data xfer, but if I need to branch off the fiber line for 3 or 4 cameras, that;s going to require terminating at several points. Now I'm not so sure I want to mess with doing the fiber terminals or whatever they're called. I believe I can buy pre-terminated fiber as long as I figure out the lengths I need.

His job today was to mark off the existing underground utilities, which are at least 500' away from where the fiber will be going. Similar to those call b4 u dig guys, only this co does it in house. Last I was told by Frontier, the permit for boring under the road will be issued in March. Kinda odd they're marking now. Whatever...

He also told me if I had the fiber or cat5 on hand, the fiber guys would definitely place that too. In fact he even said they would make a separate slice for my line, to keep both lines apart. So that's a plus.

But now I'm confused. Will Cat5 or 6 be sufficient for the cameras, or should I stay with fiber? If I do go with fiber, will someone be willing to come out to just terminate all the ends? I want to do this once and do it right the first time. But I honestly don't know if I would even notice the difference between the 2.

What would you do?
 
If you want distance IR, it isn't cheap, but wow do they work



The reason for fiber for the cameras isn't because of speed, it is because of the distance limitations of POE.

The biggest issue you will have with Cat5 or 6 is the distance limitation of POE of 328 feet (but you would probably want to not go past 300 feet). You would need to provide power halfway along your 600 foot stretch to provide another source of power.

And most underestimate distance. Even more so when running wire. If that 600 feet turns out to be 670 feet, now you are beyond the distance limitations of POE and would need yet another midspan.

I personally have not done fiber, but folks here have. Hopefully someone jumps in.
 
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wittaj said:
If you want distance IR, it isn't cheap, but wow do they work



The reason for fiber for the cameras isn't because of speed, it is because of the distance limitations of POE.

The biggest issue you will have with Cat5 or 6 is the distance limitation of POE of 328 feet (but you would probably want to not go past 300 feet). You would need to provide power halfway along your 600 foot stretch to provide another source of power.

And most underestimate distance. Even more so when running wire. If that 600 feet turns out to be 670 feet, now you are beyond the distance limitations of POE and would need yet another midspan.

I personally have not done fiber, but folks here have. Hopefully someone jumps in.
Click to expand...
I remember you saying the distance limitations, sorry a little hard to keep up with all this right now...too many irons in the fire. I WANT that IR distance, so would running a separate pwr line be sufficient? Or would a nano station? I remember you mentioning that, but forgot what the specific intention is for. Something about using POE

Where would that device you linked go? With one of the cameras down on the driveway? For fiber or cat5?

It sounds like it would be cheaper and less hassle for me in the long run to just stick with fiber and less hardware required too. I'm honestly expecting someone to tell me to hire this out b/c I'm in over my head. BUT I WANT to figure this all out and do it myself. Might take me awhile, but I will one way or another.
 
If you have direct line of sight and have power (or run power) to the end of the driveway or where you want the cameras, the nanostation is well received by many here. Or maybe it is nanostation for the first leg and POE the next stretch. Not sure of distances, but it appears you have a curve that would prevent line of sight to street, but maybe it is less than 300 feet from where you could place a nanostation with direct sight to your house to the street?

The IR Blaster can go where ever you need it to provide supplemental IR - it could be placed closer to the camera or further away depending on your needs. It would need power. Some can operate via POE.
 
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Got it. understood that much and notes taken. Thanx!

Yes the curve is approx the mid point so 300' either direction. But has you said, exact #s matter. However if I place the posts for the cams up on the uphill side of the driveway, the evergreens would block a clear line of sight
 
Is it snow on the camera front or is there something that it is pilling up on that is in front of the camera? Maybe it can be brushed off? At my cabin I have an extension pole with a 4x9" soft bristle brush mounted so I can brush off the ledge of where 2 roofs meet. Thought it was a good idea to mount a camera in the hole lol. Had good snow one year and didn't take long to notice that was a bad spot for the camera. It is still there, now I use a heated roof cable to keep ice and snow from forming.. Now the brush just sits in the shed waiting for the cable to no longer work lol..
 
Yeah it can be brushed off. Just drifting on the AC unit underneath it. Weird storm with lots of snow blowing drifts LOL
 
 
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