Why I am finally upgrading cameras

Madflamethrower said:
"Yeah if you do run wifi, it is highly recommended to have a router that is not connected to the internet and the rest of your network and have it simply be for the cameras. Just recognize/accept that there will still be video drop out and fails."

This sounds like a possibility combined with adding a camera...not consumer junk...to the house. Would I lose phone access to the cams set up like this?

Bear with me please lol. I'm am trying my best to follow every last thing you just said, and Can't thank you enough for all that info!!!. Its starting to make sense . As I said, I may just say F it and do it right by trenching. Its not that I'm not capable of doing that, just another project I dont need.
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Well we are also probably talking two different things and expectations, so let's clear that up.

If you are talking about a Nest camera down there or any consumer based cloud camera, it will need internet.

If you are talking about taking a good camera and making it wifi and provide a large solar and battery pack so that it can run 24/7 video and feed to an NVR, that is a different scenario.

The bigger question though is how long will those battery operated cameras last 300 feet away from your house (the fewer wifi bars, the faster the battery drains) and are you available/capable/willing to go down there every time it needs a charge?

Inevitably when something happens around here and I send out my text messages to neighbors just for my own kicks and grins knowing their cameras suck LOL, I usually get a reply back from those with battery operated wifi cams that their battery was dead.

So while the quick toss up some battery operated wifi cams sounds good, if you have to charge them every 3 days or 12 days or whatever the frequency is, that gets old quick too.

And they will die just before the perp event.

Personally I would rather run temp cabling instead of running wifi, but that is because I have been down this route before and wouldn't want to make the same mistake again LOL.
 
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The Nest cams are POE in that all I need is 120v ac to plug into. Some of them also have cat5 in place, but unused currently. And those are only in the attics, so it would be too hot for a NVR. Running cat 5 or 6 from a cam to inside is doable the house, but even more work.
 
Madflamethrower said:
The Nest cams are POE in that all I need is 120v ac to plug into. Some of them also have cat5 in place, but unused currently. And those are only in the attics, so it would be too hot for a NVR. Running cat 5 or 6 from a cam to inside is doable the house, but even more work.
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If they are POE they don't need 120v ac to plug into. Do you mean they are ethernet cable for data but still need traditional power?

I am not talking about at the house. You said you want wifi cams down the driveway - how will those be powered (or am I mixing up people and their threads LOL)
 
If you are talking about taking a good camera and making it wifi and provide a large solar and battery pack so that it can run 24/7 video and feed to an NVR, that is a different scenario.

^^^^^^^
This EXACTLY what I want to do if its worth the effort. The Nest are junk and will stay where they are for now. Maybe not get plates and details as good as I can, but for the minimal expense IMO, it would give that eye in the sky I want right now.

But the more you say, the more I'm convinced I NEED to trench.
You are very convincing with your explanations...again, I can't thank you enough!!
 
wittaj said:
If they are POE they don't need 120v ac to plug into. Do you mean they are ethernet cable for data but still need traditional power?

I am not talking about at the house. You said you want wifi cams down the driveway - how will those be powered (or am I mixing up people and their threads LOL)
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Yeah Nest just need 120v nothing else. I thought POE was over a 120v line. I'm way behind on correct terms right now. The cat 5 was from the logitech. probably shouldn't have mentioned them as it just added to the confusion.
 
POE means you only need one cable to the camera - the ethernet cable supplies the data and the power requirements. It is then powered with a POE switch - which is basically a networking switch that happens to supply power also.

Contrast that with cheap cameras that need a power cable and a data cable (or use wifi).

So the cameras we recommend only need 1 wire, not 2. So you only need to run one cable and not two.

If you have 120v power at a location that you do not have Cat5/ethernet at or is difficult to get it to it, you can buy a powerline adapter that will run the data over your existing electric lines. Way more stable than wifi and then opens you up to the better cameras instead of relying on wifi crap cameras.
 
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Driveway cams would be strictly solar and wifi unless I trench. apologies for the confusion. Gonna take a break for a few minutes and take the dogs out.

I should clarify something...I spent 40 yrs as a flatrape tech for GM. Early retirement 6 yrs ago and I still have the side effects of flatrape...speed reading and going 100mph all the time. It sux!! but I'm getting better at slowing down. Thats where I F up reading posts with heavy terminology. lol

Break time but I WILL be back soon. I am into this like my life depends on it! :D
 
wittaj said:
So the cameras we recommend only need 1 wire, not 2. So you only need to run one cable and not two >>>:headbang:

If you have 120v power at a location that you do not have Cat5/ethernet at or is difficult to get it to it, you can buy a powerline adapter that will run the data over your existing electric lines. Way more stable than wifi and then opens you up to the better cameras instead of relying on wifi crap cameras.
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Would the bold allow connection to a NVR or will it work with BI? I like that option even better for house cams when I upgrade them...
 
^^^That answers everything I wanted to know for house cams. That would allow me to upgrade the house cams without running cat5 down into the house for a NVR or the BI...still trying to understand how that works and lest just leave it alone for now to avoid confusion. This is just for house cams only. not driveway cams

For the driveway, still undecided other than you have presented a STRONG and convincing case to trench. But if a solar wifi is still an option for the driveway and I could get somewhat decent results, I may give it a shot if the expense isn't too great. Then I'd trench in the summer for the ideal set up. I'm not intentionally repeating myself, just caught up in my mind running 100mph reading and wanting to learn and understand. You have done a remarkable job in explaining it to me. I just need to slow down and smell the roses...
 
Just for term clarification...the Nest run on the house 120v line only, and then wifi through the Comcast XB8 router. Are they just considered wifi cams, or IP cams? or?
>>>edit...so if I understand correctly, the Nest use a powerline adapter. There is a device on the end of each camera line that plugs into the 120v. Guess I never gave it a thought, just plugged them in and moved on.

This spring I will have 1g up/down fiber from Frontier. Free install which will include 600' of undergorund along my driveway as well as underground boring under the road. It'd be nice if I could get them to run a line for the driveway cams at the same time. But I don't think its wise to ask. Maybe I can open the fresh slice in the ground and run the line for the cameras. Would interference be a concern if I used their trench for my driveway cams feed?

Not trying to comlicate this any further, just thought I'd add that bit as it may be a way to get the ideal setup.

My brain is running in overdrive right now with all this info.
 
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I'm gonna sleep on this for a day or 2. But I'm am leaning heavily towards doing it the right way. wittaj has repeated it enough that it finally got through my thickheaded way of thinking. I was hoping for an easy way for now, but....

"Personally I would rather run temp cabling instead of running wifi, but that is because I have been down this route before and wouldn't want to make the same mistake again LOL."

Voice of experience^^^^


If I can access that fresh slice that they run the fiber, I'll use that to run the camera feed from the driveway into my house. That would simplify and remove the roadblock I'm facing. I'll be who makes the actual penetration thru the house wall, so I can also run the driveway camera line thru that same hole.

What size pwr feed should I run for 600' if I use a power line adapter ? or just use Cat5 or is 6 better? I know I need to use direct bury as I'm not planning on running conduit.
 
To throw another wrinkle LOL, POE is rated for 328 feet, so you would need power midway and a POE switch to make the 600 foot run or use fiber.

I am sure if you provided the fiber and threw in some beer or some cash they would toss another fiber in there while they go.
 
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how many strand do I need? A quick search shows 2, 6 and 8 strand. I'll assume 1 strand per camera. Is there a specific type of fiber other than direct bury to use for the cameras? I know squat about fiber other than reliability.
 
Looks like cat5 multimode fiber optic cable with a duplex pair is what I need for 4 cameras. Plus all the connectors and tools. Do I need a media converter switch with an SFP slot? Not that I know wtf that is lol

Boy do I have some learning to do. But I am determined to make this happen

Wonder if the fiber crew will let me follow behind them with my fiber. But I'll ask them to place it with cash in hand first. WTH...can't hurt to ask
 
So here's where I am.... I am trying to figure out everything I need to set this up. Even tho this is all new to me, I am more than capable to do this part. Just need a little guidance to ensure I do it right. I want to be sure I fully understand everything required and not run into something I wasn't expecting.

I found a couple illustrations showing 2 different setups. Is this what I want for 4 cameras? I doubt I'd need anymore than that for the lower driveway. Do I use both a NVR and a dedicated PC? I thought it was one or the other. If someone has a better pic or link that would show what I need, I'd appreciate it.


From the cameras to the POE switch that Ri22o linked would be fiber with RJ45's. Does that POE switch need to be outside, or could I put it inside the house? Is the fiber flexible enough to use for everything else in the house or would I switch to cat5 for that?

Materials needed so far are the POE switch, a roll of fiber, box of RJ45 terminals and the tools needed to install them. I'll stop here so I don't cause any more confusion like I did earlier.

Thanx!
 
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Madflamethrower said:
I also found this setup, but don't think its what I want. Its only for 1 cam, so for 4 I'd need 8 media converters?
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I am not 100% certain how SFP works, but I would think you could use a media converter on the house side and then the POE switch I linked on the camera end.

I would think you could also use one of the POE switches on both ends, if you wanted to power cameras at your house or plug your NVR/BI PC into it.
 
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