Wifi 2.4 Ghz Overloaded or router overloaded?

[Techgeek360]

Hi, Blue Iris been working flawlessly with 3 cameras on 2.4ghz (720p) and 1 phone camera on 5ghz. I also had 1 camera on a extender. The extender I fastlane a 5ghz connection and send out a 2.4ghz signal. I currently have the Nighthawk x6 and it really has been rock solid.

Where it went wrong was I decided to remove any blind spots and add 3 additional 1080p wifi cameras. Sometimes everything is happy and it works great. Sometimes cameras just start dropping for no apparent reason. In 30mins or so they will start working magically again. At this point I have 3 cameras on the repeater. I have 4 2.4ghz cameras on the router.

Most of the drops occur on the router. The router has 35-40 devices connectd but only 9 on the 2.4ghz band. 13 devices on the 5ghz band. Which seems rock solid. The phone cam I converted never loses connection.

I adjusted a lot on the router. I tried multiple channels 1,6 and 11. I tried adjusting the CTS/RTS threshold to a lower value. I tried adjusting the fragmentation length to lower. With little difference in behavior. The only thing that has helped some is setting the preamble mode to Short. That really upped the data rate to about 20-40mb/sec on the server according to performance in windows.

When they work I usually see 20-30fps.

Also, signal is pretty strong on all cameras. Wifi analyzer on my phone shows around -50db for the weakest signal. However, one of the cameras is at -35db and it drops quite often.

Any ideas how to fix this? Is this a overload issue/interference? The server is running pretty idle <20% cpu. I have a rack mount and running win 10 vm on it. I gave it 18 cores at 2.53ghz and 8 gb of ram.

If it is a wifi issue could I just lower the bitrate/quality or is the multiple cameras causing some chatter on my network? Buy another repeater? Get a better router?

Also, I should mention the error I get is 8000274c (timeout; check IP address and port) 0

Thanks!

 

[Mr_D]

1080p is a lot more data than 720p. This is why everyone recommends POE cameras.

 

[Techgeek360]

Well I didn't buy POE cameras but at this point I guess I could just run Cat 5e/6 to a couple or upgrade my router. Just surprised that my router couldn't handle more then 4.. Seems like there should be easy solution.

 

[Mr_D]

Well I didn't buy POE cameras but at this point I guess I could just run Cat 5e/6 to a couple or upgrade my router. Just surprised that my router couldn't handle more then 4.. Seems like there should be easy solution.

Video is demanding and wifi spectrum is both limited and crowded. It's also an inherently half-duplex medium. It's like going back 20 year to Ethernet hubs.

 

[looney2ns]

You are seeing the reason's why this forum recommends to stay away from Wifi cams.
You can try reducing the frame and bit rates on the cams, but you will probably still have issues.
Read the wiki at the top of the page.

10-15fps is plenty for security cams.

 

[aristobrat]

Well I didn't buy POE cameras but at this point I guess I could just run Cat 5e/6 to a couple or upgrade my router. Just surprised that my router couldn't handle more then 4.. Seems like there should be easy solution.

I have only one WiFi camera in my house (1080, running 10 FPS). While it's not the only device on this AP's 2.4GHz band, it's the only device that constantly talks, which cause it to use about 35% of the channel.

 

[Techgeek360]

I have only one WiFi camera in my house (1080, running 10 FPS). While it's not the only device on this AP's 2.4GHz band, it's the only device that constantly talks, which cause it to use about 35% of the channel.

View attachment 28878

That's awesome. What app are you using to get those statistics?

If I connect to the band with my cameras I am seeing about 3mb/sec down and up. If I turn off the cameras I get about 50mb/sec down/up on the 2.4ghz band. If I use the 5g band I get around 200mb down/ 75 up which is my internet speed.

I reduced my streams from 1080p to 720p and limited the bitrate to 1mb and it was quite a bit better today. The worse cameras is having about 1% packet loss when I ping it.. I can pretty much tell when it is going to go no signal.

Anyways today stats aren't too bad now per the screenshot. Ironically the 1 cam I have 1080p still is hitting the highest fps. It's pretty close to my extender though.



I do have a 1000ft of weatherproof cat 6 coming. Surprisingly it was only 60 bucks and only 10 bucks higher then cat 5e. I'll probably wire up a few of my worse offender and hopefully stop killing my 2.4ghz band.

I'm definitely a believer now that 2.4ghz doesn't have what it takes to support this many cameras.

 

[aristobrat]

What app are you using to get those statistics?

I've been slowly replacing my equipment (router, access points, switches, etc) with Unifi stuff. That's one of the views from the controller app (when looking at an access point).

Like @Mr_D mentioned, most access points run WiFi in half-duplex... the access point can either be listening to or sending to just one device at a time. Everyone else waiting to send or receive have to wait their turn. I guess if you get enough data backed up on devices while they're waiting for their turn to get some airtime, ... it can cause some problems?

Glad you're getting some ethernet, that should really help! Also, play around some with your FPS and see what you think. Unless you have really fast moving objects that you want to watch live with minimal jumpiness, 15 FPS is usually good. Your front porch cam at 25 FPS made me think of that. heh heh

 

[Techgeek360]

I've been slowly replacing my equipment (router, access points, switches, etc) with Unifi stuff. That's one of the views from the controller app (when looking at an access point).

Like @Mr_D mentioned, most access points run WiFi in half-duplex... the access point can either be listening to or sending to just one device at a time. Everyone else waiting to send or receive have to wait their turn. I guess if you get enough data backed up on devices while they're waiting for their turn to get some airtime, ... it can cause some problems?

Glad you're getting some ethernet, that should really help! Also, play around some with your FPS and see what you think. Unless you have really fast moving objects that you want to watch live with minimal jumpiness, 15 FPS is usually good. Your front porch cam at 25 FPS made me think of that. heh heh

But I caught a good action shot of a cat jumping my fence the other day. I will tone them down a bit. Im still trying to get a good understanding of quality, vs bit rate, vs resolution. No matter what I change really seems to have a major difference to image quality that I am seeing. I do see a big difference in data rate. Im guessing if you keep quality the same and lower bit-rate the camera is working harder to compress the data? Seems all a bit magical.

 

[Muneeb Shafique]

Does you cameras support H.265 or H.265+ Codec as this can remarkably bring down bandwidth required and also load on your wireless infrastructure !

 

[TonyR]

I do have a 1000ft of weatherproof cat 6 coming. Surprisingly it was only 60 bucks and only 10 bucks higher then cat 5e.

Wow....great deal! Please don't be insulted, but at that price I have to ask: It's solid copper, not CCA, right? With 'CMX' jacket or ????

 

[bp2008]

I know I'm late to this party but the problem is definitely wifi. Wifi is a disaster.

2.4GHz networks typically use 20 MHz or 40 MHz channel width, when there is only about 60 MHz to go around. So chances are your wifi network is interfering with at least half a dozen other networks belonging to your neighbors (likewise, all their devices are interfering with your network). The wifi protocols respond to interference by backing off and waiting a moment to try retransmitting, so when there is a lot of interference, speeds drop like a rock for everybody affected.

Another thing people are probably not even aware of is that when significant data loss is detected (which is extremely common), the transmission rate gets slowed down. This increases the chance that data will be received correctly, but takes up more air time. At the slowest rates, one IP camera can end up transmitting almost continuously trying to get its stream through, and just like that, your network has slowed to a crawl and your camera streams begin to fail. All of your neighbors feel it too but blame their internet provider, and this is a big reason so many ISPs have terrible customer ratings without deserving it.

Wireless cameras are one of the worst offenders since they are always generating significant amounts of traffic, and are often mounted where the radio conditions aren't great which slows down their transmission rate and makes them consume more airtime.

 

[Techgeek360]

The newest cameras are h.264. I adjusted them down quite a bit so they aren't using a lot of bandwidth. Imagine my older cameras are only h.263. I know the cell phone I connected does mpeg which uses 4x the bandwidth for less quality but it works on the 5ghz wireless so its never been an issue.

The cable I got was -- MATERIAL - Solid CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum) 23 AWG, Waterproof Shielding. It's about the same size as coaxial and pretty stiff. Wish it was a bit smaller in diameter. Only spec I really cared about was waterproof because those cameras won't use much data. The bad reviews on the cable were mainly people sending it long distances and only getting 100mb speeds.

Alternatively I could of just gone more repeaters as the cameras on my 1 repeater work fairly well but this should be better in the long run/cost effective once I get a few cameras on a wired connection.

Also a note on 40 mhz. If I turn off 20/40hz coexistence most of the cameras worked better but one camera did not handle it at all. On the repeater it has 40hz only and all those cameras worked great off that repeater.. I have devices that has gone a entire day without a disconnect and rarely see drop packets when I ping the cameras.

Setting the preamble to short had the best results in improvement. When researching I read short did less error correction and was recommended for high traffic networks.

 

[mat200]

..
The cable I got was -- MATERIAL - Solid CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum) 23 AWG, Waterproof Shielding. It's about the same size as coaxial and pretty stiff. Wish it was a bit smaller in diameter. Only spec I really cared about was waterproof because those cameras won't use much data. The bad reviews on the cable were mainly people sending it long distances and only getting 100mb speeds.
...

HI Techgeek,

CCA, ouch - get rid of it, either return or trashbin, it is not worth your time to install it.

Look for quality solid copper cat5e/cat6 instead. If you're in the USA take a look at monoprice as a potential vendor.

 

[TonyR]

The cable I got was -- MATERIAL - Solid CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum) 23 AWG, Waterproof Shielding.

Yep, the low price for 1K ft. gave it away.

+1 to @mat200 said.

 

[Techgeek360]

Feels like I'm in a downward spiral of mistake after mistake. Can't believe they are allowed to sell crap like this and surprised the reviews were 4.2/5. After a bit of research it seems I might be ok since I don't plan on using POE. Maybe it will be ok. I don't have massive bandwidth plans for it. It does sound like it can break pretty easily so will need take care installing it. I would consider returning it but already did a 50 ft run from it. I was planning on putting the ends on it tomorrow.

 

[fenderman]

Feels like I'm in a downward spiral of mistake after mistake. Can't believe they are allowed to sell crap like this and surprised the reviews were 4.2/5. After a bit of research it seems I might be ok since I don't plan on using POE. Maybe it will be ok. I don't have massive bandwidth plans for it. It does sound like it can break pretty easily so will need take care installing it. I would consider returning it but already did a 50 ft run from it. I was planning on putting the ends on it tomorrow.

No it will NOT be ok. POE or no poe. The cable is TRASH. You will have dropped packets...not a big deal for a pc, but a HUGE deal for constantly streaming ip cameras. SEND IT BACK. Cable is the cheapest component of an install but also the hardest to diagnose if there is a sporadic issue as well as very time consuming to replace. You will regret it. Return it to the vendor as fraudulent non-compliant cable...if they dont want to take it back open a dispute with your credit card company.

 

[Techgeek360]

I haven't buried the cable yet but will order some pure copper from monoprice. Ironically my 3d printer is a monoprice as well. I probably don't need a 1000 ft so will order 500ft instead.

Hopefully they will let me return this.

My initial test are looking pretty good for the CCA cable but I don't want to run into issues in a year etc.

I upped the camera quality /bitrate to max and rock solid 30fps. Pulling in over a 1 mb/sec of data. I'll probably reduce the bit rate down but basically giving it a stress test for now.

Ping test looks good too while I am giving it a stress test. My pings on wireless was a 4% packet loss and ranged from 15 ms to 1000ms before.

Reply from 192.168.1.15: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.15: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.15: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.15: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64

Ping statistics for 192.168.1.15:
Packets: Sent = 251, Received = 251, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 2ms, Average = 0ms

Already my other cameras are working better.